The Masters: predictions

[gohornedfrogs]

I’m sure nobody but die hard golf fans like me watched it, but the final nine of the Augusta National Women’s Amateur was the best tournament I’ve seen in a while. The final nine at Augusta is the greatest final nine in golf without question.

 

[Pharm Frog]

I’m sure nobody but die hard golf fans like me watched it, but the final nine of the Augusta National Women’s Amateur was the best tournament I’ve seen in a while. The final nine at Augusta is the greatest final nine in golf without question.

Only because you haven’t experienced ZBoaz.

 

[First Tee Frog]

Koepka knee injury is opposite knee than he hurt before and happened in an “accident over a weekend with family.”

I’ll take spieth. Game is rounding into form and he plays that course as well as anyone.

dang he blew it a week early. Hard to win in back to back weeks but is still take him next week.

 

[Wexahu]

I’m sure nobody but die hard golf fans like me watched it, but the final nine of the Augusta National Women’s Amateur was the best tournament I’ve seen in a while. The final nine at Augusta is the greatest final nine in golf without question.

Probably an unpopular opinion but 14 and 16 are bad holes. Especially 16. And 17 and 18 are pretty weak finishing holes for a major.

It’s a great 9, but I think the back 9 at Sawgrass is better. Just not as scenic.

 

[Brog]

I predict that on Wednesday Tiger will announce that he is withdrawing and will not play.

 

[First Tee Frog]

Probably an unpopular opinion but 14 and 16 are bad holes. Especially 16. And 17 and 18 are pretty weak finishing holes for a major.

It’s a great 9, but I think the back 9 at Sawgrass is better. Just not as scenic.

14 is a great hole but it’s sandwiched between two iconic holes. The green on 14 might be best green complex on the whole course. 16 is excellent. Sunday hole location is weakest on the green but provides drama. Entire right side of the green is extremely difficult. 17 isn’t nearly as strong a hole since Eisenhower tree came down and they narrowed the fairway. Once again it’s a fantastic green complex. 18 is an excellent hole. Has given excellent moments from dramatic birdies to heartbreaking bogies. Sawgrass is not in the same class from an architectural standpoint

 

[Dogfrog]

Only because you haven’t experienced ZBoaz.

Don’t let them fool you. It was always a dog park.

 

[Wexahu]

14 is a great hole but it’s sandwiched between two iconic holes. The green on 14 might be best green complex on the whole course. 16 is excellent. Sunday hole location is weakest on the green but provides drama. Entire right side of the green is extremely difficult. 17 isn’t nearly as strong a hole since Eisenhower tree came down and they narrowed the fairway. Once again it’s a fantastic green complex. 18 is an excellent hole. Has given excellent moments from dramatic birdies to heartbreaking bogies. Sawgrass is not in the same class from an architectural standpoint

We'll just have to agree to disagree on some of this.

A huge part of 14 green isn't even usable, I don't think that's a great green complex, it's just wildly undulating. And while the pin positions on the right side are much better that the left on 16, you just end up with a parade of boring 40 foot putts up the hill after the ball trickles down to the bottom. The left side adds "drama" if you like 75% of shots ending up in the same general area, I just don't care for it. The water is just scenery, it's hardly even in play. 17 and 18 aren't bad holes, they just aren't great finishing holes for a major IMO. Again, I'm not saying it's not great but the "greatest closing 9 holes in golf without question" has more to do with the scenery and stage than anything else. 11, 12, 13 and 15 are awesome though, no disagreement there.

Sawgrass is a great layout with one gimmicky hole.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

Probably an unpopular opinion but 14 and 16 are bad holes. Especially 16. And 17 and 18 are pretty weak finishing holes for a major.

It’s a great 9, but I think the back 9 at Sawgrass is better. Just not as scenic.

I was a member at TPC Sawgrass for about five years. Do not agree.

 

[JogginFrog]

I’m sure nobody but die hard golf fans like me watched it, but the final nine of the Augusta National Women’s Amateur was the best tournament I’ve seen in a while. The final nine at Augusta is the greatest final nine in golf without question.

I found it entertaining.

1. The first two editions of this tournament were almost polar opposites. The inaugural was a one-on-one battle between two players who both played Augusta National great (Kupcho's 67 made Fassi's 70 look average). This one featured 9 players with a legit chance to win on the back nine, and the course took a bite out of every one. For a while, each player at the top gave their lead away as fast as they got it.

2. I liked seeing pin positions that you hardly ever see at Augusta--the ones on 11 and 17 come to mind. Watching Kajatani double-bogey 17 to lose her lead was brutal.

3. I liked watching some of the misreads that resulted from players only having seen the course the day before. Gives you a sense of the challenges and optical illusions that you don't get as often from the pros.

4. Likewise the different driving angles that show up from the members' tees. Liked seeing Mehaffey cut the corner on 11...and the fairway bunkers on 18 gobbling up drives.

5. I partially fault Augusta National for Zhang's lost ball left off the tee on 13. Where were the marshals? During the Masters, they have multiple spotters over there--like the ones who found Sergio's ball in his 2017 win. And here's the crew that found Bryson's shot into the bushes beyond the 13th green last fall.


But no one could tell where Zhang's ball wound up? If it's verified in the hazard or unplayable, she takes a stroke, lays up, and probably doesn't make worse than six. Difference between T3 and solo first. If's and but's--but when a tournament swings on a lost ball by a player in the final group, it doesn't seem like a world-class tourney.

 

[OmniscienceFrog]

scheiss him!

 

[OmniscienceFrog]

Only because you haven’t experienced ZBoaz.

Unfortunately nowadays Z Boaz is nothing but dogleg after dogleg.

 

[OmniscienceFrog]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on some of this.

A huge part of 14 green isn't even usable, I don't think that's a great green complex, it's just wildly undulating. And while the pin positions on the right side are much better that the left on 16, you just end up with a parade of boring 40 foot putts up the hill after the ball trickles down to the bottom. The left side adds "drama" if you like 75% of shots ending up in the same general area, I just don't care for it. The water is just scenery, it's hardly even in play. 17 and 18 aren't bad holes, they just aren't great finishing holes for a major IMO. Again, I'm not saying it's not great but the "greatest closing 9 holes in golf without question" has more to do with the scenery and stage than anything else. 11, 12, 13 and 15 are awesome though, no disagreement there.

Sawgrass is a great layout with one gimmicky hole.

The back nine at Augusta is great because of the drama it often creates, not because it's a bunch of individually or collectively great holes. it's got two par-5's that are basically long par-4's anymore, but they generate a lot of excitement.

If I had to pick one hole in the world to play if it was my last, it would be the 13th at Augusta National. Of course I like to draw the ball.

 

[flyfishingfrog]

Sorry No Pete Dye designed golf course is better than Augusta

the man hate golfers and it took 20 years to make Sawgrass what it is today - which is a really average layout (like almost all TPC courses) with a few finishing holes built to try and create a dramatic finish to a tournament

it’s not the fifth major and never will be

Jack’s course is 3x the golf course and a better event- memorial is truly a great track and that is hard for me to say because I was in Arnie’s Army and didn’t like fat Jack when he was beating one of my heroes

PGA west is another example of a Pete Dye over makeup’d Waffle House waitress golf course trying to parade itself as a great design

 

[BrewingFrog]

Sorry No Pete Dye designed golf course is better than Augusta

the man hate golfers...

PGA west is another example of a Pete Dye over makeup’d Waffle House waitress golf course trying to parade itself as a great design

I remember walking around the Pete Dye course out at PGA West with my Dad some years ago. He was pointing out and describing the various things that Dye did to make the course harder. "He really hates golfers. Rotten sonofabitch..."

Heh...

 

[flyfishingfrog]

I remember walking around the Pete Dye course out at PGA West with my Dad some years ago. He was pointing out and describing the various things that Dye did to make the course harder. "He really hates golfers. Rotten sonofabitch..."

Heh...

My single biggest problem with Dye (beyond the fact that he overused railroad ties as his signature because he had no real construction vision) was that his designs didn’t truly allow for a recovery from a mistake

it is like he thought if you didn’t find the fairway or the green on your approach - you should be given a penalty stroke as if the rest of the course is a red marked hazard

a 20 ft deep bunker down the entire left side of a hole is one thing - hiding 5 ft deep grass moguls on the other side that required a high iron to get out so you couldn’t reach the green is another

feel like many of his designs after Teeth of the Dog were kind of lazy and he just kept going back to making small fairways with impossible recoveries on both sides and raised greens with railroad ties at the end of the fairway for every course

you see the same thing happening on Fazio Signature courses - if you were blind folded and dropped on the first tee of Dallas National, Shooting Star, Glenwild,.... they are the same golf course over and over just in different locations

but then I guess that is what people are paying him to deliver

 

[Eight]

My single biggest problem with Dye (beyond the fact that he overused railroad ties as his signature because he had no real construction vision) was that his designs didn’t truly allow for a recovery from a mistake

it is like he thought if you didn’t find the fairway or the green on your approach - you should be given a penalty stroke as if the rest of the course is a red marked hazard

a 20 ft deep bunker down the entire left side of a hole is one thing - hiding 5 ft deep grass moguls on the other side that required a high iron to get out so you couldn’t reach the green is another

feel like many of his designs after Teeth of the Dog were kind of lazy and he just kept going back to making small fairways with impossible recoveries on both sides and raised greens with railroad ties at the end of the fairway for every course

years ago i went to a sales meeting in kohler, wisconsin and during our stay a group of us went to play blackwolf run. i am not a great golfer, shoot mid 90's on daily plays so the slope isn't nearly as high as that same score on a quality country club course, but i can normally get around okay on the better courses we would play on an still enjoy myself.

no one in our group liked that scheissing course for the reasons you just described.

 

[BrewingFrog]

My single biggest problem with Dye (beyond the fact that he overused railroad ties as his signature because he had no real construction vision) was that his designs didn’t truly allow for a recovery from a mistake

it is like he thought if you didn’t find the fairway or the green on your approach - you should be given a penalty stroke as if the rest of the course is a red marked hazard

a 20 ft deep bunker down the entire left side of a hole is one thing - hiding 5 ft deep grass moguls on the other side that required a high iron to get out so you couldn’t reach the green is another

feel like many of his designs after Teeth of the Dog were kind of lazy and he just kept going back to making small fairways with impossible recoveries on both sides and raised greens with railroad ties at the end of the fairway for every course

you see the same thing happening on Fazio Signature courses - if you were blind folded and dropped on the first tee of Dallas National, Shooting Star, Glenwild,.... they are the same golf course over and over just in different locations

but then I guess that is what people are paying him to deliver

Large-scale putt-putt. I'm surprised he never stuck a windmill in a fairway...

I agree, and am far more partial to the the designers who build in risk-reward strategy, and allow for a degree of forgiveness. After all, golf is supposed to be fun, relaxing, even exhilarating at times. Not "A Good Walk Spoiled" like it sometimes is.

I do not claim any skill as a golfer. At all. If I kept score, I would play to a 20 handicap or thereabouts. Good enough to put up with by other, better golfers, as long as I behaved and bought beers. My local course is a 9-hole goat pasture. It's colorful, and picturesque, but the beer at the end of the round is cold and the company good. But, the game is the same. And I believe I have more fun playing that goat pasture than out at PGA West.

 

[flyfishingfrog]

years ago i went to a sales meeting in kohler, wisconsin and during our stay a group of us went to play blackwolf run. i am not a great golfer, shoot mid 90's on daily plays so the slope isn't nearly as high as that same score on a quality country club course, but i can normally get around okay on the better courses we would play on an still enjoy myself.

no one in our group liked that scheissing course for the reasons you just described.

It’s funny because I agree about Blackwolf

but I felt like Dye actually redeemed himself somewhat with the Straits course at Whistling Straits

I actually liked it so much - I asked the GM if his wife took the lead on the design

maybe forcing him to build a links style on one of the best pieces of property for it in the US inspired him to be better - or maybe he has just gotten tired of gimmicks

but Straits alone is worth the trip and the money- although I would choose Brandon over Kohler all day long since it’s 5 courses that are great, not 1

 

[The Artist Formerly Known as PhormerPhrog]

Unfortunately nowadays Z Boaz is nothing but dogleg after dogleg.

This deserves a rimshot.