• The KillerFrogs

Why can’t TCU land an elite QB?

hfhmilkman

Active Member
A few comments on the definition of what an elite QB prospect means. Elite just means NFL potential and nothing else. Elite means the QB or any generic player has the physical skills to compete at the NFL level presuming they keep developing. What this means for a QB is they are of a certain, weight, and other physical measurables, have an observed throwing arm, and are reasonably accurate in 7-on-7 drills. Never mind actual HS games.

A blue blood program like Alabama or OSU may feel that an elite QB can be the difference maker when facing each other. Clemson beat OSU because Trevor Lawrence was a better QB than Justin Fields. And LSU beat Clemson because Joe Burrow was a better QB than Trevor Lawrence. These programs will cycle through multiple QB's to get it right. They have to because for every Trevor Lawrence there are a dozen Graham Mertz's.
Wisconsin is a great example of what happens when a program becomes obsessed with bringing in an "elite" QB. Wisconsin had been getting by with QB's of lesser physical talent but who made plays, who were still football players and leaders. Yet Wisconsin was not satisfied and ran Jake Coan out of town despite him doing a really nice job. The rest is history and a long multi-decade era in Madison is over. Much of the reason was the terrible failure of Mertz. He is an athlete first, football player second.

The moral of the story is elite QB's rarely turn out. If the pro's cant get it right evaluating college players, what chances college programs evaluating HS kids in camps? Better to try to find a football player who is being overlooked because he does not have NFL measurables. Its still the college game. That kind of player may be good enough to win one big game even if the NFL does not think he can win 17 at the next level. Get the leader. Get the football player. Elite prospects are usually fools gold. The blue bloods only get it right because they can attract and cycle through as many QB's until they get it right. A heady QB who just makes the play is worth way more than an athlete who has a 4.5 40, stands six foot four and can throw a 40 yard deep out route on a line in practice.

For the fun of it, I encourage folks to walk the last ten years of five star QB prospects at your favorite scouting site. Most of these elite NFL prospects are forgotten because they did not even approach expectations.

Another thought experiment. Would we agree there are no more than two dozen established NFL QB's? I define an established QB has someone who can command second contract secure as starter. Andy Dalton in my opinion is a typical example. He was a starting QB for 9 years as the #1 QB. Now he is winding his career down as one of those unsecure QB's. If we assume there are only 24 established QB's in the league at any time and the average career is eight seasons, the replacement rate would be 24/8 or 3 QB's being discovered every year. This begs the question, what is the chance that the elite QB that a college program chose, is going to be one of these 3 individuals?
 
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Froggy Style

Active Member
A few comments on the definition of what an elite QB prospect means. Elite just means NFL potential and nothing else. Elite means the QB or any generic player has the physical skills to compete at the NFL level presuming they keep developing. What this means for a QB is they are of a certain, weight, and other physical measurables, have an observed throwing arm, and are reasonably accurate in 7-on-7 drills. Never mind actual HS games.

A blue blood program like Alabama or OSU may feel that an elite QB can be the difference maker when facing each other. Clemson beat OSU because Trevor Lawrence was a better QB than Justin Fields. And LSU beat Clemson because Joe Burrow was a better QB than Trevor Lawrence. These programs will cycle through multiple QB's to get it right. They have to because for every Trevor Lawrence there are a dozen Graham Mertz's.
Wisconsin is a great example of what happens when a program becomes obsessed with bringing in an "elite" QB. Wisconsin had been getting by with QB's of lesser physical talent but who made plays, who were still football players and leaders. Yet Wisconsin was not satisfied and ran Jake Coan out of town despite him doing a really nice job. The rest is history and a long multi-decade era in Madison is over. Much of the reason was the terrible failure of Mertz. He is an athlete first, football player second.

The moral of the story is elite QB's rarely turn out. If the pro's cant get it right evaluating college players, what chances college programs evaluating HS kids in camps? Better to try to find a football player who is being overlooked because he does not have NFL measurables. Its still the college game. That kind of player may be good enough to win one big game even if the NFL does not think he can win 17 at the next level. Get the leader. Get the football player. Elite prospects are usually fools gold. The blue bloods only get it right because they can attract and cycle through as many QB's until they get it right. A heady QB who just makes the play is worth way more than an athlete who has a 4.5 40, stands six foot four and can throw a 40 yard deep out route on a line in practice.

For the fun of it, I encourage folks to walk the last ten years of five star QB prospects at your favorite scouting site. Most of these elite NFL prospects are forgotten because they did not even approach expectations.

Another thought experiment. Would we agree there are no more than two dozen established NFL QB's? I define an established QB has someone who can command second contract secure as starter. Andy Dalton in my opinion is typical example. He was a starting QB for 9 years as the #1 QB. Now he is winding his career down as one of those unsecure QB's. With if we assume there are only 24 established QB's in the league at any time and the average career is eight seasons, the replacement rate would be 24/8 or 3 QB's being discovered every year. This begs the question, what is the chance that the elite QB that a college program chose, is going to be one of these 3 individuals?
Joined Dec 2022.

Passionate about TCU CFB? Or just really interested in educating Killerfrogs patrons.

How disappointed will his Sunday be when nobody participates in his white paper?
 

hiphopfroggy

Active Member
A few comments on the definition of what an elite QB prospect means. Elite just means NFL potential and nothing else. Elite means the QB or any generic player has the physical skills to compete at the NFL level presuming they keep developing. What this means for a QB is they are of a certain, weight, and other physical measurables, have an observed throwing arm, and are reasonably accurate in 7-on-7 drills. Never mind actual HS games.

A blue blood program like Alabama or OSU may feel that an elite QB can be the difference maker when facing each other. Clemson beat OSU because Trevor Lawrence was a better QB than Justin Fields. And LSU beat Clemson because Joe Burrow was a better QB than Trevor Lawrence. These programs will cycle through multiple QB's to get it right. They have to because for every Trevor Lawrence there are a dozen Graham Mertz's.
Wisconsin is a great example of what happens when a program becomes obsessed with bringing in an "elite" QB. Wisconsin had been getting by with QB's of lesser physical talent but who made plays, who were still football players and leaders. Yet Wisconsin was not satisfied and ran Jake Coan out of town despite him doing a really nice job. The rest is history and a long multi-decade era in Madison is over. Much of the reason was the terrible failure of Mertz. He is an athlete first, football player second.

The moral of the story is elite QB's rarely turn out. If the pro's cant get it right evaluating college players, what chances college programs evaluating HS kids in camps? Better to try to find a football player who is being overlooked because he does not have NFL measurables. Its still the college game. That kind of player may be good enough to win one big game even if the NFL does not think he can win 17 at the next level. Get the leader. Get the football player. Elite prospects are usually fools gold. The blue bloods only get it right because they can attract and cycle through as many QB's until they get it right. A heady QB who just makes the play is worth way more than an athlete who has a 4.5 40, stands six foot four and can throw a 40 yard deep out route on a line in practice.

For the fun of it, I encourage folks to walk the last ten years of five star QB prospects at your favorite scouting site. Most of these elite NFL prospects are forgotten because they did not even approach expectations.

Another thought experiment. Would we agree there are no more than two dozen established NFL QB's? I define an established QB has someone who can command second contract secure as starter. Andy Dalton in my opinion is typical example. He was a starting QB for 9 years as the #1 QB. Now he is winding his career down as one of those unsecure QB's. With if we assume there are only 24 established QB's in the league at any time and the average career is eight seasons, the replacement rate would be 24/8 or 3 QB's being discovered every year. This begs the question, what is the chance that the elite QB that a college program chose, is going to be one of these 3 individuals?
Became unreadable at sentence #2.
 

hfhmilkman

Active Member
Joined Dec 2022.

Passionate about TCU CFB? Or just really interested in educating Killerfrogs patrons.

How disappointed will his Sunday be when nobody participates in his white paper?
I decided I liked the site, the discussion, and the posters. Is there a rule I have to be a TCU fan to discuss generic things? I am going to share a story from the Fiesta bowl.

A couple of the mgoblog guys went to the bowl game in the TCU section. In the 2nd half the TCU fans in front said, "Hey! Your Seth Fisher of mgoblog! Can we get a picture with you after the game?" And thus football fans have struct up a new friendship.

Football is family and is something that ties us together. I'm a River Rat and think its cool I am on a forum whose mascot is a Horned Frog.

I don't understand trolls :(. Do you just like to snipe to make people feel bad?
 

82 Frog Fever

Active Member
Idk man, he grew up a Frog fan. I think we have a better chance of hanging on to him than some rando kid from [insert random west coast state]
Davila is a great pure passer that moves well inside a pocket, but he is not a runner.
He was recruited by Riley, but in a KB offense running QBs get 20-30% of the carries and they set up other running plays for the backs and receivers.
Davila will either need to become a runner, or KB will need to change his offense to fit the QB,
…or go somewhere else.
 
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ShreveFrog

Full Member
I don't recall Sonny having great running quarterbacks (that he recruited; unless he helped with Max.) So maybe KB will adjust his offense to what Sonny wants ??? More of a pocket passer/ball distributor ???
 

Hoosierfrog

Tier 1
A few comments on the definition of what an elite QB prospect means. Elite just means NFL potential and nothing else. Elite means the QB or any generic player has the physical skills to compete at the NFL level presuming they keep developing. What this means for a QB is they are of a certain, weight, and other physical measurables, have an observed throwing arm, and are reasonably accurate in 7-on-7 drills. Never mind actual HS games.

A blue blood program like Alabama or OSU may feel that an elite QB can be the difference maker when facing each other. Clemson beat OSU because Trevor Lawrence was a better QB than Justin Fields. And LSU beat Clemson because Joe Burrow was a better QB than Trevor Lawrence. These programs will cycle through multiple QB's to get it right. They have to because for every Trevor Lawrence there are a dozen Graham Mertz's.
Wisconsin is a great example of what happens when a program becomes obsessed with bringing in an "elite" QB. Wisconsin had been getting by with QB's of lesser physical talent but who made plays, who were still football players and leaders. Yet Wisconsin was not satisfied and ran Jake Coan out of town despite him doing a really nice job. The rest is history and a long multi-decade era in Madison is over. Much of the reason was the terrible failure of Mertz. He is an athlete first, football player second.

The moral of the story is elite QB's rarely turn out. If the pro's cant get it right evaluating college players, what chances college programs evaluating HS kids in camps? Better to try to find a football player who is being overlooked because he does not have NFL measurables. Its still the college game. That kind of player may be good enough to win one big game even if the NFL does not think he can win 17 at the next level. Get the leader. Get the football player. Elite prospects are usually fools gold. The blue bloods only get it right because they can attract and cycle through as many QB's until they get it right. A heady QB who just makes the play is worth way more than an athlete who has a 4.5 40, stands six foot four and can throw a 40 yard deep out route on a line in practice.

For the fun of it, I encourage folks to walk the last ten years of five star QB prospects at your favorite scouting site. Most of these elite NFL prospects are forgotten because they did not even approach expectations.

Another thought experiment. Would we agree there are no more than two dozen established NFL QB's? I define an established QB has someone who can command second contract secure as starter. Andy Dalton in my opinion is a typical example. He was a starting QB for 9 years as the #1 QB. Now he is winding his career down as one of those unsecure QB's. If we assume there are only 24 established QB's in the league at any time and the average career is eight seasons, the replacement rate would be 24/8 or 3 QB's being discovered every year. This begs the question, what is the chance that the elite QB that a college program chose, is going to be one of these 3 individuals?
Poor unsecure multi millionaire Andy. We should all be so unsecure.
 

Eight

Member
Exactly!!! Duggan was great so TCU should have kids lined up but they don’t. That’s what makes no sense. It seems people on this board would rather insult me for questioning the obvious. Guess you’re all just as clueless as me. We are getting some DAMN good players at every position except QB, and I guess I’m the only one willing to admit I don’t have a clue.

go back to the other thread and read the answers provided to you because you are only making your self look worse if you aren't trying to troll the board with this persistent questioning of things that were told to you a week ago
 
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82 Frog Fever

Active Member
I don't recall Sonny having great running quarterbacks (that he recruited; unless he helped with Max.) So maybe KB will adjust his offense to what Sonny wants ??? More of a pocket passer/ball distributor ???
In Sonny’s last year at SMU, they only ran the ball only 45% of the time and QBs had 19% of the carries.
This year Sonny started gravitating toward rushing. TCU ran the ball 55% of the time and the QB had 27% of the carries.

KB is even more of a rushing offense. Arky rushed 63% of the time this year & the QBs had 32% of the carries.

One of Sonny’s OC requirements was a spread RUSHING offense, which is why KB is here.
I highly doubt he’d knee jerk back to a pass emphasis just for Davila.
 

Eight

Member
@82 Frog Fever - Based on Sonny’s history with guys like Goff, Driskel and Buechele, I’d say Sonny and Riley adjusted to Max’s run ability. I could be wrong.

think that has been a big key for sonny his willingness to adjust his offense to personnel and trends n the game

heck, his dad was that way, spike's lee teams ran a wishbone formation with a great deal of power deal and leads and when he gets the hc job at tech they were running some one back with 4-wides
 
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Frawg

Active Member
Exactly!!! Duggan was great so TCU should have kids lined up but they don’t. That’s what makes no sense. It seems people on this board would rather insult me for questioning the obvious. Guess you’re all just as clueless as me. We are getting some DAMN good players at every position except QB, and I guess I’m the only one willing to admit I don’t have a clue.
Because we have the badazz that beat out Max to start the season.
 

LisaLT

Active Member
I like when other fans from other schools post here. It's nice to get other perspectives on occasion. Play nice everyone.
Happy Snoop Dogg GIF by Black Eyed Peas
 
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