• The KillerFrogs

Rewatching the game has made one thing clear

Casey T

Full Member
Not sure how accurate this is but a guy that sits below us was a former official and said it was a fumble because the ball didn’t hit the ground and your hand/risk touching doesn’t mean you are down - that is how guys can catch their fall by putting a hand down and keep running

He said if any part of the ball or any other part of his body- forearm, elbow, etc had hit than he would have been down before the fumble

But to me, the ground caused the fumble. In which case it should be blown dead and not be a fumble. How did the ground not cause the fumble on that play?
 

jake102

Active Member
Not sure how accurate this is but a guy that sits below us was a former official and said it was a fumble because the ball didn’t hit the ground and your hand/risk touching doesn’t mean you are down - that is how guys can catch their fall by putting a hand down and keep running

He said if any part of the ball or any other part of his body- forearm, elbow, etc had hit than he would have been down before the fumble

how do people not know this?
 

Double V

Active Member
But to me, the ground caused the fumble. In which case it should be blown dead and not be a fumble. How did the ground not cause the fumble on that play?
That's an incorrect, and common, misunderstanding of the rules. The ground can absolutely cause a fumble. Picture a QB scrambling with the ball in his hand looking to throw. He trips, falls, and the first thing to hit the ground is the football in his hand. Ball comes loose as soon as it hits the ground, rolls away, and the other team recovers. The ground can absolutely cause a fumble.
 

flyfishingfrog

Active Member
That's an incorrect, and common, misunderstanding of the rules. The ground can absolutely cause a fumble. Picture a QB scrambling with the ball in his hand looking to throw. He trips, falls, and the first thing to hit the ground is the football in his hand. Ball comes loose as soon as it hits the ground, rolls away, and the other team recovers. The ground can absolutely cause a fumble.
I think that was the point of the broadcast guys also after I watched the recording - a ground can cause a fumble so the saying that “the ground can’t cause a fumble” is just wrong

The ball has to hit the turf while you are not down for the ground can’t cause a fumble rule to apply I guess
 
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Double V

Active Member
well I will admit I didn’t realize the ball touching or not touching the turf made all the difference

I figured you were down or you were not and what the ball contacted didn’t matter
It's not about the ball touching the ground or not, it's about the player being "down". If the player is down, and then the ball pops out when he hits the ground, it's not a fumble. If the ball pops out because a part of his body touches the ground that DOESN'T make him down (i.e. the back of the hand or wrist) then it's a fumble. If Reagor's elbow had hit the ground and forced the ball out, that's a "ground can't cause a fumble"-type scenario because an elbow on the ground means the player is ruled down. You aren't down if your hand or wrist touches the ground, just like you aren't down if your feet touch the ground. Gotta be between the knees and elbows, basically.
 

Casey T

Full Member
That's an incorrect, and common, misunderstanding of the rules. The ground can absolutely cause a fumble. Picture a QB scrambling with the ball in his hand looking to throw. He trips, falls, and the first thing to hit the ground is the football in his hand. Ball comes loose as soon as it hits the ground, rolls away, and the other team recovers. The ground can absolutely cause a fumble.

Interesting, I have heard that saying for years and always assumed it was accurate. Glad they made the right call then
 

flyfishingfrog

Active Member
It's not about the ball touching the ground or not, it's about the player being "down". If the player is down, and then the ball pops out when he hits the ground, it's not a fumble. If the ball pops out because a part of his body touches the ground that DOESN'T make him down (i.e. the back of the hand or wrist) then it's a fumble. If Reagor's elbow had hit the ground and forced the ball out, that's a "ground can't cause a fumble"-type scenario because an elbow on the ground means the player is ruled down. You aren't down if your hand or wrist touches the ground, just like you aren't down if your feet touch the ground. Gotta be between the knees and elbows, basically.
I realize if you are down your down and you can’t fumble - and that a wrist doesn’t make you down

that is not the ground can’t cause a fumble rule- the ground can’t cause a fumble rule is specifically if you are not down but the ball touching the ground knocks it lose after you have control - it’s not a fumble

if he had put the ball out to break his fall instead of his wrist - and the ball came lose from hitting the ground but before he was down it would not have been a fumble
 

Double V

Active Member
I realize if you are down your down and you can’t fumble - and that a wrist doesn’t make you down

that is not the ground can’t cause a fumble rule- the ground can’t cause a fumble rule is specifically if you are not down but the ball touching the ground knocks it lose after you have control - it’s not a fumble

if he had put the ball out to break his fall instead of his wrist - and the ball came lose from hitting the ground but before he was down it would not have been a fumble
No. That's not correct. That would also be a fumble because the ball would have been fumbled before he was down.
 

flyfishingfrog

Active Member
Fff
No. That's not correct. That would also be a fumble because the ball would have been fumbled before he was down.
them back to my original point that there is no ground can’t cause a fumble rule so the official explanation was wrong

you are either down or you are not and if you are not down then you can fumble it any time any place
 
Big 12 officiating is awful.

Missed the facemask on Duggan in the end zone and a clear hold by a Texas personal protector on the punt. He just tackled the rusher on punt. If he hadn't done it the punt might have been blocked.

they've sucked at least as long as we've been in the B12. And I'm not just TCU homering. Watch any B12 game. They are HORRIBLE.
 
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