Big 12 2020-21 Basketball Thread
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Pharm Frog
Full Member
Should be a far bigger game for Okie Lite than for the Frogs.
CountryFrog
Active Member
Ok St beats Texas and is now 12-5. If not for 2 losses vs TCU they'd be 14-3 and ranked in the top 10. Even with those 2 losses they may jump up to around 15 this week.
Pharm Frog
Full Member
In the last few days I've had the opportunity to do something I haven't done in quite some time...watch non-TCU basketball. From my limited observation, the whole lot of it is putrid. Ranked teams from other conferences, unranked teams from other conferences...it's rank. I get the discontinuities and practice limitation and I'm sure that has a lot to do with it but it's not good basketball. Even the "good games" seem to be more of a function of both teams sucking to similar extents. Hopefully some teams will get it figured out in time for a decent March. Just my opinion.
CountryFrog
Active Member
That's pretty much how it is every year imo. The college game is very rarely pretty. There are always some exceptions but it's overwhelmingly bad basketball for the most part.
Almost everyone is trying to play some form of Golden State Warriors basketball but no one has Curry, Thompson, or Durant.
Thank the 3-point line and the 30-second shot clock for a large part of that. The analytics say don't bother shooting the ball from 10-20 feet when a 22-footer counts 50% more. And the 30-second shot clock forces a bunch of low-quality shots being jacked up.
We'd see a hell of a lot more "good" basketball IMO over time if the line was moved back another 3-4 feet, or just removed altogether. Off-the ball screens, cuts, passing, post play....real basketball.....it would all come back over time (and it would take some time), because it would have to if teams wanted to be good. Dribble drives with 3 or 4 guys standing outside the arc waiting for a kick-out pass is ugly, and that's about all we see now.
Honestly haven't watched them much but pretty much everyone that covers the game for a living thinks that it's Baylor & Gonzaga and then a very large gap beneath them.
CountryFrog
Active Member
The AAU culture that most of these kids grow up in doesn't help either. Guys come into college with almost zero knowledge of the game and all think they're the next Curry or Durant as 18 year olds.
There's no doubt. But IMO the cause and effect is that the 3-pointer and shot clock encourages the kind of play that we see. If guys can knock down 3-pointers at somewhere between a 30-40% clip, there's no point in playing anything else than what amounts to a dribble-drive offense with guys camped around the 3-point line. That IS the best offensive strategy.
Move the line back a few more feet and add some time to the shot clock, and all the analytics that say the isolate and spread the floor, constant high pick and roll offenses are the most efficient would no longer say that. Passing, cutting, screening, post play and working for shots closer to the basket would be what everyone would work toward and then we'd see the game for the better. IMO.
CountryFrog
Active Member
Maybe. I don't know.
Ultimately I think the problem with the college game from an entertainment perspective is that the gap between the pros and the college kids is so much more noticeable in that sport because the missed shots and turnovers are so glaring. I think people don't notice the gap quite as much in college football because the differences are more in the subtleties of the game that most fans don't pay attention to anyway like line play, route running, pre snap reads, etc.
I watch college football on Saturday and the NFL on Sunday and there's not a massive difference between the two from a viewing experience. College basketball vs the NBA might as well be a different sport these days.
Eight
Member
skill level of the individual players is fairly significant in terms of ball handling and shooting. i really don't like watching the modern nba game, but there is no doubt on the skill of the players especially some of the bigs.
gonzaga by far is the leading offensive team in the country, but statistically are not a great 3-pt shooting team. they have a few players who are very good at 3's, but there offense isn't built around the 3 and they emphasize ball movement, players moving without the ball, and pushing the ball up the court.
all of those things could be done by other teams, but i think it takes a great degree of trust by few and his staff as they don't micromanage possessions
Peacefrog
Degenerate
The modern nba game is garbage.
Moose Stuff
Active Member
Can't remember the last time I watched even a minute of an NBA game. Years and years.
jake102
Active Member
Agreed that difference in college and professional is much worse in basketball than football. I find college basketball hard to watch. Not that NBA is much better.
CountryFrog
Active Member
Agree. I watch almost no NBA basketball until the playoffs. But I think casual basketball fans who have no specific college team allegiance likely find the NBA to be a far better viewing experience than college because the skill level is so noticeably higher.
Farmfrog
Active Member
I think there is different reasons why the game isn’t as enjoyable as it has been. One is a segment of coaches don’t know how to coach at a faster pace which leads to teams that look like they have no clue. Another is that kids are not taught the basic skills needed to play the game. Us and Canada are the only countries that don’t use the 24 second shot clock in games at the youth level.
I enjoy watching Gonzaga and Baylor because they are well coached not just talented. I’m an unabashed Jay Wright fan because he plays an entertaining style on offense and is strong on defense. Honestly I don’t think coaching across the board is very good but there’s a few that are good.
I enjoy watching Gonzaga and Baylor because they are well coached not just talented. I’m an unabashed Jay Wright fan because he plays an entertaining style on offense and is strong on defense. Honestly I don’t think coaching across the board is very good but there’s a few that are good.
Eight
Member
agree and actually think what is considered coaching by some is controlling bordering on domineering players to others.
then i watch a team like ok state and i have no clue what they are doing on the offensive side of the ball.
Eight
Member
who knows if baylor will play another conference game this year or if isu should, but the rough week by texas dropping 2 games has resulted in a few changes in the standings as the conference i guess heads for the stretch run.
here are the standings after last night's kansas win over ok state
baylor 9-0, (17-0)
wvu 6-3, (13-5)
ou 7-4, (12-5)
tech 6-4, (14-5)
texas 5-4, (11-5)
kansas 6-5, (12-7)
ok st 5-6, (12-6)
tcu 3-5, (10-7)
ksu 2-10, (6-15)
isu 0-8, (2-11)
aside from baylor, the key phrase on most of the teams in the big 12 (and most of college basketball) is "if they shoot the ball well" heading into this week's round of games
baylor isn't playing again until at least feb 20th due to covid restrictions and it will be interesting to see if they play their last few games
wvu is at tech tonight and then hosts ou in two big games for them. ou has what should be a win in hosting isu tonight and then goes to morgantown. tech hosts wvu tonight and one would think we will see another shift in the standings next week.
texas is at ksu and then hosts the frogs. insert that key phrase and texas should win both of these games, but who knows. ku beat ok state and has a "doubleheader" with isu this week. ok state dropped a game to kansas and hosts ksu on saturday. they should be able to get to .500 in the conference, but who knows if they will be consistent.
tcu hosts isu in what is a must win this week as they travel to austin on saturday. texas isn't impossible, but will be tough. ksu hosts texas and then travels to osu and does it really matter for isu?
here are the standings after last night's kansas win over ok state
baylor 9-0, (17-0)
wvu 6-3, (13-5)
ou 7-4, (12-5)
tech 6-4, (14-5)
texas 5-4, (11-5)
kansas 6-5, (12-7)
ok st 5-6, (12-6)
tcu 3-5, (10-7)
ksu 2-10, (6-15)
isu 0-8, (2-11)
aside from baylor, the key phrase on most of the teams in the big 12 (and most of college basketball) is "if they shoot the ball well" heading into this week's round of games
baylor isn't playing again until at least feb 20th due to covid restrictions and it will be interesting to see if they play their last few games
wvu is at tech tonight and then hosts ou in two big games for them. ou has what should be a win in hosting isu tonight and then goes to morgantown. tech hosts wvu tonight and one would think we will see another shift in the standings next week.
texas is at ksu and then hosts the frogs. insert that key phrase and texas should win both of these games, but who knows. ku beat ok state and has a "doubleheader" with isu this week. ok state dropped a game to kansas and hosts ksu on saturday. they should be able to get to .500 in the conference, but who knows if they will be consistent.
tcu hosts isu in what is a must win this week as they travel to austin on saturday. texas isn't impossible, but will be tough. ksu hosts texas and then travels to osu and does it really matter for isu?
Eight
Member
between covid, weather, power outages, and goodness knows what else the big 12 schedule continues to be a mess with only 1 team so far having no conference games postponed to this point
what is really interesting to me looking at the schedule on the big 12 website is they show the texas -tech game in lubbock on the 27th already postponed even though both teams have other games scheduled.
maybe tech doesn't want to go to lubbock, maybe the circus is in town, who knows other than that pretty much sums up this years conference season. what i have below is the current standings, the remaining games until the supposed end of the season, and the number of current games a teams has had postponed.
supposedly there is time between the end of the regular season and the start of the conference tournament to make up games, but i don't see baylor playing 6 make up games in those 10 days and who knows if we will even have a conference tournament this year.
here are the standings with baylor alone at the top and then four school separated by percentage points for second
baylor 9-0 (17-0)
ou 8-4 (13-5)
kansas 9-5 (15-7)
texas 7-4 (13-5)
wvu 7-4 (14-6)
tech 6-5 (14-6)
ok state 6-6 (13-6)
tcu 4-6 (11-8)
ksu 1-12 (5-17)
isu 0-11 (2-14)
remaining schedule
baylor - isu on the 23rd, @ kansas on the 27th, 6 games postponed
ou - tex tba, @ isu on the 20th, @ksu on the 23rd, @ ok state on the 25th, ok state on the 27th, 1 game postponed
kansas - @ksu on the 17th, tech on the 20th, @texas on the 23rd, baylor on the 27th
texas - @ou tba, @isu ppd, ,wvu on the 20th, kansas on the 23rd, @tech on the 27th ppd, 4 games postponed
wvu - @ tex on the 20th, @TCU on the 23rd, ksu on the 27th, 4 games postponed
tech - @TCU on the 18th tba, @kanas on the 20th, @OkState on the 22nd, 4 games postponed
ok state - isu on the 16th, tech on the 22nd, ou on the 25th, @ ou on the 27th, 2 games postponed
tcu - tech on the 18th tba, ksu on the 20th, wvu on the 23rd, @isu on the 27th, 4 games postponed
ksu - kansas on the 17th, @TCU on the 20th, ou on the 23rd, @wvu onthe 27th, 1 game postponed
isu - at ok state on the 16th, ou on the 20th, @bay on the 23rd, tcu on the 27th, 3 games postponed
what is really interesting to me looking at the schedule on the big 12 website is they show the texas -tech game in lubbock on the 27th already postponed even though both teams have other games scheduled.
maybe tech doesn't want to go to lubbock, maybe the circus is in town, who knows other than that pretty much sums up this years conference season. what i have below is the current standings, the remaining games until the supposed end of the season, and the number of current games a teams has had postponed.
supposedly there is time between the end of the regular season and the start of the conference tournament to make up games, but i don't see baylor playing 6 make up games in those 10 days and who knows if we will even have a conference tournament this year.
here are the standings with baylor alone at the top and then four school separated by percentage points for second
baylor 9-0 (17-0)
ou 8-4 (13-5)
kansas 9-5 (15-7)
texas 7-4 (13-5)
wvu 7-4 (14-6)
tech 6-5 (14-6)
ok state 6-6 (13-6)
tcu 4-6 (11-8)
ksu 1-12 (5-17)
isu 0-11 (2-14)
remaining schedule
baylor - isu on the 23rd, @ kansas on the 27th, 6 games postponed
ou - tex tba, @ isu on the 20th, @ksu on the 23rd, @ ok state on the 25th, ok state on the 27th, 1 game postponed
kansas - @ksu on the 17th, tech on the 20th, @texas on the 23rd, baylor on the 27th
texas - @ou tba, @isu ppd, ,wvu on the 20th, kansas on the 23rd, @tech on the 27th ppd, 4 games postponed
wvu - @ tex on the 20th, @TCU on the 23rd, ksu on the 27th, 4 games postponed
tech - @TCU on the 18th tba, @kanas on the 20th, @OkState on the 22nd, 4 games postponed
ok state - isu on the 16th, tech on the 22nd, ou on the 25th, @ ou on the 27th, 2 games postponed
tcu - tech on the 18th tba, ksu on the 20th, wvu on the 23rd, @isu on the 27th, 4 games postponed
ksu - kansas on the 17th, @TCU on the 20th, ou on the 23rd, @wvu onthe 27th, 1 game postponed
isu - at ok state on the 16th, ou on the 20th, @bay on the 23rd, tcu on the 27th, 3 games postponed
Eight
Member
as we enter the final stretch of big 12 play the only real question is will baylor play again before the ncaa tournament. supposedly baylor is scheduled to play isu, wvu, and at kansas which would be two very interesting games to finish the regular season for the bears
here are the standings, season record, and record against ap ranked teams
baylor 9-0 (17-0) (4-0)
ou 9-4 (14-5) (5-4)
ku 11-5 (17-7) (6-5)
wvu 8-4 (15-6) (5-4)
tex 7-5 (13-6) (3-5)
ok st 7-6 (14-6) (3-3)
tech 6-6 (14-7) (2-6)
tcu 4-7 (11-9) (0-5)
ksu 2-13 (6-18) (0-10)
isu 0-13 (2-16) (0-8)
baylor is easily the best team in the conference and i do think playing kansas and wvu would benefit them prepare for the tournament
ou is second by a few hundredths over kansas and how big are the two ok state losses to tcu coming into this last week.
tex, ok state, and tech all may finish the season at .500 in conference play when has to be a bit frustrating to ok state and disappointing to texas and tech.
the game among the bottom trio this week is tcu at isu as the cyclones try to win a conference game this year
here are the standings, season record, and record against ap ranked teams
baylor 9-0 (17-0) (4-0)
ou 9-4 (14-5) (5-4)
ku 11-5 (17-7) (6-5)
wvu 8-4 (15-6) (5-4)
tex 7-5 (13-6) (3-5)
ok st 7-6 (14-6) (3-3)
tech 6-6 (14-7) (2-6)
tcu 4-7 (11-9) (0-5)
ksu 2-13 (6-18) (0-10)
isu 0-13 (2-16) (0-8)
baylor is easily the best team in the conference and i do think playing kansas and wvu would benefit them prepare for the tournament
ou is second by a few hundredths over kansas and how big are the two ok state losses to tcu coming into this last week.
tex, ok state, and tech all may finish the season at .500 in conference play when has to be a bit frustrating to ok state and disappointing to texas and tech.
the game among the bottom trio this week is tcu at isu as the cyclones try to win a conference game this year
