Despite the odds Frog
Active Member
I'm thinking B. But I agree with everyone else if it the Longhorns and even the Sooners with the ball it's the yardage they need or always a few yards more.
You Make The Call - 2019
- Thread starter Zebra Frog
- Start date
Frog-in-law1995
Active Member
I point it out because the rule for spotting an out of bounds ball contains an exception addressing the specific concern in your first sentence. And now I’ve probably ruined Zebra’s follow-up question.
Last edited:
ShreveFrog
Full Member
A
Zebra Frog
KMA
[WhQUOTE="Zebra Frog, post: 2731442, member: 184"]Question #1
Runner A44 carries the ball near the sideline, and strides out of bounds. The ball should be spotted:
a. At the location of the ball when the runner’s foot touches out of bounds.
b. At the position of the ball as it crossed the sideline.
c. At the location of the ball when the runner’s last foot was inbounds.
d. At the spot the ball carrier’s foot last touched down inbounds.[/QUOTE]
Answer: Question #1
B - The most forward point of the ball when declared out of bounds between the goal lines is the point of forward progress. Exception: When a ball carrier is airborne as he crosses the sideline (including a striding runner), forward progress is determined by the position of the ball as it crosses the sideline.
Runner A44 carries the ball near the sideline, and strides out of bounds. The ball should be spotted:
a. At the location of the ball when the runner’s foot touches out of bounds.
b. At the position of the ball as it crossed the sideline.
c. At the location of the ball when the runner’s last foot was inbounds.
d. At the spot the ball carrier’s foot last touched down inbounds.[/QUOTE]
Answer: Question #1
B - The most forward point of the ball when declared out of bounds between the goal lines is the point of forward progress. Exception: When a ball carrier is airborne as he crosses the sideline (including a striding runner), forward progress is determined by the position of the ball as it crosses the sideline.
Frog-in-law1995
Active Member
Respectfully disagree that’s what the rule book says. The parenthetical “(including a striding runner)” is not in that exception and the only reason to specify “airborne” is to exclude a striding runner. Otherwise, the exception would just say “when a ball carrier crosses the sideline....”
The rules state that a held ball is declared out of bounds when the player holding it steps out, and (as you note above) that it should be spotted at its most forward point when it is declared out of bounds.
Maybe “B” is the way it has been interpreted and enforced, but I believe a strict reading of the rules indicates that the ball should be spotted at its forwardmost point when the runner steps out, which was (closest to) answer A.
Peacefrog
Degenerate
You sound like a lawyer.
Frog-in-law1995
Active Member
I bet a pretty good number of Refs are. I also very nearly pulled out some old law school Latin to explain my thoughts on “airborne” being the chosen word. (“Expressio unius est exclusio alterius”).
jake102
Active Member
This doesn't make any sense..... why wouldn't every runner jump forward as they reach the sideline? You could gain an extra 2-3 yards, even if it's out of bounds
Zebra Frog
KMA
The (including a striding runner) was added this year. NCAA 2019 rule book, page FR-60. Rule 4-2-4-d
Frog-in-law1995
Active Member
Because the exception to that rule says if the player is airborne, the ball should be spotted where it crossed the sideline.
Frog-in-law1995
Active Member
Zebra Frog
KMA
I don’t know how to edit, but this is a fairly benign, yet important change.
jake102
Active Member
What is "airborne"?
BigPurple87
Active Member
If that's the rule, I have literally never once seen it called that way
Zebra Frog
KMA
It’s been in the rule book for a number of years. All that was added was the striding player. Bottom line is that the ball is OB if the player is airborne (doesn’t have a body part touching the ground) when crossing the sideline, then forward progress is determined by where the ball is when it crosses the sideline. The only times that it is truly relevant is if it is close to the line-to-gain for a first down OR it’s at the goal line, which might lead to a question about it being a TD or not.
Land Frog
Darn baylor!
Atomic Frawg
Full Member
In essence, when you see a runner who steps out of bounds at the 49 yard-line while sticking the ball out just beyond the first down marker at the 50, then the it is spotted at the balls furthest point forward as the runner steps out of bounds - first down. If the runner dives out of bounds at the 49 and places the ball in his right hand to keep it in bounds, and projects it beyond the first down marker as it crosses the boundary, then you have the same outcome - first down - regardless of where the player lands. But if the player had the ball in his left hand while airborne, crossed the boundary, and then extended the ball with his right hand, the ball goes back to where it crossed out of bounds - no first down. Got it.
tcudoc
Full Member
Zebra Frog
KMA
Question #2:
First and goal at the B-5. A12 scrambles out of the pocket and is looking for a receiver in the end zone. A12 is at the B-10 and no one is open and he legally grounds the ball by throwing it out of bounds at the goal line. However, when the pass is released, A55 is standing at the B-1. 4 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
a. Foul for Ineligible Receiver downfield. A, second and goal at the B-10, loss of down at the spot of the foul.
b. No foul for Ineligible Receiver downfield.
c. Foul for Ineligible Receiver downfield. A, first and goal at the B-10, replay the down from the spot of the foul.
d. Foul for Ineligible Receiver downfield. A, first and goal at the B-15, replay the down with a 5 yd. penalty from the spot of the foul.
First and goal at the B-5. A12 scrambles out of the pocket and is looking for a receiver in the end zone. A12 is at the B-10 and no one is open and he legally grounds the ball by throwing it out of bounds at the goal line. However, when the pass is released, A55 is standing at the B-1. 4 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
a. Foul for Ineligible Receiver downfield. A, second and goal at the B-10, loss of down at the spot of the foul.
b. No foul for Ineligible Receiver downfield.
c. Foul for Ineligible Receiver downfield. A, first and goal at the B-10, replay the down from the spot of the foul.
d. Foul for Ineligible Receiver downfield. A, first and goal at the B-15, replay the down with a 5 yd. penalty from the spot of the foul.
