Why TCU doesn't get 5-Star players.

[TopFrog]

Gray's HS HC attends a lot of TCU games as a fan and used to coach at A&M Consolidated. The choice had nothing to do with Buchanan.

Pretty naive to think Buchanan had absolutely no influence.And he is a UT guy and close with their staff.In the end Gray made his choice on a lot of factors, but ...

 

[InterestedObserver]

Only 26 per Rivals and UT had 1, so as you are saying not getting one ins't the end of the world, but would be nice every once in a while. Per ESPN and Rivals a 5 star is a kid that should be able to come into a program and make an almost immediate impact. Here are the 5 stars from UT the last 5 years:

2006 Eddie Jones, Sergio Kindle (Jones basically didn't show until his SR year and then OK, Kindle was supposed to be Heisman potential but was a backup 1st 2 seasons and then moved to DE)
2007 Tray Allen, Curtis Brown (backup, all-world DB had 2 ints in his career)
2008 none
2009 Garrett Gilbert, Alex Okafor, Mason Walters (Gilbert #95 rated passer last season, Okafor been a no-show, Walters had an injury but recovered nicely last year)
2010 Jordan Hicks, Jackson Jeffcoat (too soon to tell but two combined for 38 tackles last year though Hicks had big game against Neb)

The 5-star kids haven't necessarily panned out for them, but overall they've done pretty good. I have a UT buddy who claims that they have more players in the NFL than any other school (I don't know if this is true, but they are likely towards the top). However, their supposed "star" players sure don't seem to move to the next level with much success. Regardless, practicing against so much raw talent does give a kid who wants to work the opportunity to improve a great deal.

I've seen similar discussions about 5-star players on Tech boards and would assume that the topic has been discussed on 80-90% of the college message boards out there. There simply aren't all that many 5-star players. Only 14 out of 120 FBS schools signed a 5-star recruit in 2011. There's simply not many to go around.

Personally, I bet the percentage of primma-donna kids is about the same whether it's 2-star, 3-star, 4-star, or 5-star kids. Hell, there are likely primma-donna's that only got offered by FCS schools.

I don't put much stock in UT's recruiting titles, but also don't really understand kids going there over some other places. I was disappointed to see Gray committ to Texas over TCU (and Tech for that matter, though I liked seeing James put the Gun's Up out in front of Johnathan's Hook-Em at the press conference). At Texas, there's a decent probability he won't even win a conference championship (OU has owned UT and a couple of other teams are on the rise) while at TCU he could have become an east-coast media darling with some hard work.

If TCU remains on current path (and there's no reason to think they won't), the move to the Big East will result is some of these higher-profile recruits looking at TCU. The question is, will these recruits become "higher profile" because TCU is looking at them? That's really how the system works now, but seems to depend on who Texas, Florida, USC, and a few others desire.

 

[JugbandFrog]

A few points about TCU recruiting:

Texas doesn't lack talent, it just doesn't know what to do with what it has.

This is the key to understanding Texas that is not often talked about. When I wrote for The Skiff and then for Purple Menace, I had conversations with scouts and they would say the same thing about UT players: "They come out as talented as they were when they came in." There was little development in terms of skill, intelligence and readiness. The program uses the talent to win games and doesn't do anything more to become an elite team.

To be honest, UT doesnt have to do much to win games. They are usually the most talented team on the field. UT fans are fools to think Mack Brown has really done anything for their program. He has one national championship because of a freak of a man in Vince Young and that is it. He realized a soft schedule gets you places. Somehow he convinced the media and the world that UT was God's gift to college football. I will say he has done that for UT. He has come a long way from begging to get in a BCS game.

 

[South of the Border Frog]

A few points about TCU recruiting:

-Anyone who says that Texas' recruiting classes are over rated is insulting Gary Patterson's evaluation skills. He has offered dozens of UT players over the years and have landed very few. Tanner Brock, Jeremy Kerely, *Griffin Gilbert* come to mind. Stop talking about how TCU actually has better tallent than Texas cuz Gary has offered dozens of Horns. Texas doesn't lack talent, it just doesn't know what to do with what it has.

-I don't care how many BCS games we go to, I don't see a scenario where we're all of a sudden getting committments from multiple national top 100 players like Alabama, USC, or Texas. Multiple national championships might move the needle in that direction, but bowl games won't.

-TCU is still a big fish in a small pond. Most blue chip recruits don't want to play in the MWC against the bottom half of college football. The Big East is only a tiny step in the right direction.

-We're building a program not a team and it is a marathon not a sprint. The Rose bowl team was comprised of kids ranked 100 - 200 in the state of Texas. Are current recruits are primarily 50 - 150. We used to recruit against Houston, Rice, and Tulsa. Now we recruit (primarily) against Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, and A&M. Its an improvement, but a slow process.

-TCU has been a big winner in the decommit game. We've lost a few (Josh Huff), but gained many more (Jon Lewis, Brandon Carter, Carter Wall).

-I'll be honest with you guys, I'm worried that we've whiffed on some of our prime targets and no one on our offer list seems to be a sure thing. We're in the Top 3 or so of a bunch of good players but we I can't say that we are the clear leader for any of them. This incudes Devall, Wheeler, Starts, McNeal, Lawry, Fuller, and Vaitai.

Well said.

 

[South of the Border Frog]

Honestly I think recruiting 5-star players is very overrated. According to ESPN this year only the top 14 players were given 5-stars.

So is the 15th best player in the country worse than the 14th best player? I think any 4-star player has the potential to compete on the highest level and possibly the NFL.

You also have to remember that these rating systems are based a lot off of what schools offer the player a scholarship.

The only thing wrong here is the pic you have of Hicks making a catch... That would never happen. Not even in a video game.

 

[TCU2012]

We get some pretty great four stars though, if you like stars.

Speaking of which...

 

[Froglaw]

I have a good friend that is a 5-A High School coach. He and I have had a number of discussions about the above, and most of the time it has been due to TCU not really being a "player" in this arena. However, in the past few years that has changed.

This may or may not come as a shock, but he told me that a lot of these players are prima-donnas, and after attending some of TCU's practices and seeing how hard they work during practice, he seems to have the opinion that when they go to the other programs, they aren't expected to work as hard, but will still see playing time. He says that this is how GP has been successful. He gets kids from small schools that nobody else wanted, knows they have a strong work ethic, and develops them into 5-star players while they are with him.

I never thought of that. Any discussion? Could this really be a factor?

ZF, dead on!!!!!!

I knew Gray would go to ut. With the way he and his family handled the recruiting, I knew he was playing TCU against ut for the publicity.

We want the Dalton's, Tank's, Kerley's, and LT's of the Texas High Schools. Let ut, ATM, and the rest of the big schools fight over the so called "Blue Chips."

Give me a kid like Matt Brown who wants to come to TCU and play any day over a Cam "aka Casey Printers" Newton.

Good luck and God Bless to all those who don't want to come and bust tail.

Want an example of the diffence between talent and team, rewatch the Clemson game.

Clemson had the talent. TCU had the team.

 

[Duquesne Frog]

Could be partly true. I do think that TCU wasn't in on most of these recruits in the past. Rivals truly does wait to see who UT, OU, USC, etc are recruiting, and then decides whether they are 4 or 5 stars. In general, TCU hasn't been in on those recruits, but when they are and get a commit later in the game, then we happen to get a 4 or five star guy (see Robert Merrill). If a talented guy commits to TCU early and doesn't give the love to UT, then they don't get an offer from UT, and therefore are prevented from getting a 4 or 5 star rating (see Colby Griffin - ***).

This. As much as we may like the narrative that the 5-stars avoid us because they'd have to work too hard, I think the reality is that recruiting ratings, as I've said before, are a textbook case of a logical tautology -- 5-star recruits are "good" because the class of schools that get 5-star players are recruiting them. The recruiting systems are based on the assumption that the Elite schools know what they are doing and when the Elite schools miss, the recruiting raters miss too. And when a school like TCU hits, like say Ladainian Tomlinson, the recruiting services have no self-correcting mechanisms to account for that. The reality is that, in hindsight, LT was, no question, a 5-star recruit. Just because Texas didn't see that doesn't change that.

TCU, perhaps up until now, has never been considered one of those Elite schools that make raters think, "well if THEY'RE recruiting him, he must be good." Maybe that is changing.

 

[micahjh]

The 5-star kids haven't necessarily panned out for them, but overall they've done pretty good. I have a UT buddy who claims that they have more players in the NFL than any other school (I don't know if this is true, but they are likely towards the top). However, their supposed "star" players sure don't seem to move to the next level with much success.

Your friend is wrong. LSU has the most active NFL players(over 50), followed by USC, and Miami, at around 50. UT is tied for 4th/5th with Ohio St at around 40 + NFL players, then there are a handful of schools that have right at 40, Tenn, UGA, Florida, Michigan, OU.

You might point out to your friend that there was an article written last year, by a NFL analyst that talks about how Texas draft picks in particular have had an unusually high ratio of busts in the NFL. Those guys maybe still drawing a paycheck, but the owners wish they had rethought that draft pick.

This is further evidence on a growing list of facts that shows that the UT football program coddles its players and fosters a primma donna attitude. So, while UT may be top five in number of NFL players drawing a paycheck, NFL owners are understandably leary of UT players apparent lack of work ethic. Of those other schools that have 40+ NFL players, UT has produced the fewest Pro Bowlers, and starters. Coincidence?

 

[berryfrog95]

ZF, dead on!!!!!!

I knew Gray would go to ut. With the way he and his family handled the recruiting, I knew he was playing TCU against ut for the publicity.

We want the Dalton's, Tank's, Kerley's, and LT's of the Texas High Schools. Let ut, ATM, and the rest of the big schools fight over the so called "Blue Chips."

Give me a kid like Matt Brown who wants to come to TCU and play any day over a Cam "aka Casey Printers" Newton.

Good luck and God Bless to all those who don't want to come and bust tail.

Want an example of the diffence between talent and team, rewatch the Clemson game.

Clemson had the talent. TCU had the team.

I got roasted on here saying Gray was toying with TCU. I still believe that to be true. Nonetheless, I am absolutely loving our coaches ability to land the right type of player for TCU.