• The KillerFrogs

TCU Men's Tennis 2021-2022

Jared7

Active Member
According to the British press, Norrie will be skipping this week's tourneys in Moscow and Antwerp, but he plans to play at each of Vienna, Paris and Stockholm in the final weeks prior to the ATP Finals in Turin. So he'll have multiple chances to pass Hurkacz and make it into the tourney by advancing one spot. As jake said, it's also possible that Djoker could skip the Finals and Cam could get in that way, but I think that Djokovic will probably end up playing there (although not Nadal or Federer (who didn't even qualify)). One possible complication - rankings-wise - is that Indian Wells is going back to its usual schedule and will be played next March in about 5 months. So, Norrie will probably only get to keep his gargantuan ATP points for a few months before they roll off. So that's a disadvantage due to the weird COVID effects on the ranking system and the schedule.
 
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Jared7

Active Member
Why wouldn't they just roll off after 52 weeks, regardless of how they order the event calendar?
Good question. The rule during COVID has been that it's a 2-year roll, but that you can't count points from the same event twice. That started transitioning in August and won't finish until next August. I don't know how that will apply to Norrie's Indian Wells title, but I'm guessing that the same rule will continue to apply until the transition ends. And next Spring's Indian Wells tourney will displace the one just finished. Not sure though.
 

Purp

Active Member
Good question. The rule during COVID has been that it's a 2-year roll, but that you can't count points from the same event twice. That started transitioning in August and won't finish until next August. I don't know how that will apply to Norrie's Indian Wells title, but I'm guessing that the same rule will continue to apply until the transition ends. And next Spring's Indian Wells tourney will displace the one just finished. Not sure though.
Why wouldn't Norrie get to keep his Indian Wells points from this year until August next year? At that time he could add in his Indian Wells points from next year? I get that you can't count points from the same event twice, but it seems reasonable that he could keep the higher of the two points totals until that point value is no longer eligible.

Unrelated to points, but since we're talking about Cam, it seems like he alwys gets off to slow starts, but has terrific stamina and outlasts his opponents when he does well. I haven't been able to watch him much (don't have Tennis Channel), but I seem to recall a lot of 1st set losses or close 1st sets and then he seems to take over in the 2nd and really dominate 3rd sets. Is there something to my observation? And why do you think that is? Is he known to have elite endurance fitness? I've heard Jake and others comment about his game not having a particularly dominant attribute to it so maybe that puts him at a disadvantage early in matches until his endurance advantage puts his abilities beyond the raw abilities of his opponents? Just spit balling, but wondering why he seems to start so slow so often.
 

Jared7

Active Member
Why wouldn't Norrie get to keep his Indian Wells points from this year until August next year? At that time he could add in his Indian Wells points from next year? I get that you can't count points from the same event twice, but it seems reasonable that he could keep the higher of the two points totals until that point value is no longer eligible.

Unrelated to points, but since we're talking about Cam, it seems like he alwys gets off to slow starts, but has terrific stamina and outlasts his opponents when he does well. I haven't been able to watch him much (don't have Tennis Channel), but I seem to recall a lot of 1st set losses or close 1st sets and then he seems to take over in the 2nd and really dominate 3rd sets. Is there something to my observation? And why do you think that is? Is he known to have elite endurance fitness? I've heard Jake and others comment about his game not having a particularly dominant attribute to it so maybe that puts him at a disadvantage early in matches until his endurance advantage puts his abilities beyond the raw abilities of his opponents? Just spit balling, but wondering why he seems to start so slow so often.
On the first point, I don't really have an answer other than "the rules are the rules." That's what the ATP decided. And I don't know when the "rules" cease to be the rules and precisely when the "can't count the same event twice" rule ceases to apply. I'm guessing next August, but it could conceivably be sooner. Don't know...

On the second point, yes, Cam is known for his "elite endurance fitness." There have been many articles about it - when COVID hit and the lockdown happened, he went to New Zealand and stayed with his parents and, apparently, ran long distances every day (at fast paces) and worked out extensively all over Auckland. While others were (possibly) taking it more easy. Facu has frequently bragged out about it; the other pros and commentators have noticed it. He lost weight and body fat, he built muscle and got into great shape. Your observation is accurate. He starts slow but his fitness gives him advantages as the matches wear on. Plus, his strategy of weathering the storm against big hitters and then wearing them down is what he usually employs.
 

Purp

Active Member
On the first point, I don't really have an answer other than "the rules are the rules." That's what the ATP decided. And I don't know when the "rules" cease to be the rules and precisely when the "can't count the same event twice" rule ceases to apply. I'm guessing next August, but it could conceivably be sooner. Don't know...

On the second point, yes, Cam is known for his "elite endurance fitness." There have been many articles about it - when COVID hit and the lockdown happened, he went to New Zealand and stayed with his parents and, apparently, ran long distances every day (at fast paces) and worked out extensively all over Auckland. While others were (possibly) taking it more easy. Facu has frequently bragged out about it; the other pros and commentators have noticed it. He lost weight and body fat, he built muscle and got into great shape. Your observation is accurate. He starts slow but his fitness gives him advantages as the matches wear on. Plus, his strategy of weathering the storm against big hitters and then wearing them down is what he usually employs.
I think I noticed it b/c that's the attribute that used to make me above average at soccer. I was a really good passer and very cerebral player, but I was slow. Like 5 flat 40 slow when I was 6'1" and 165 lbs. For the first 10-15 minutes of games I was a defensive liability and one of the weakest players on the pitch so I had to be in good positions and play one-touch passes quickly, but I could maintain the same pace for all 90 minutes so as the games wore on I noticed a distinct advantage over my outside midfield opponents. If that can be his calling card for a long time it will cover up a lot of weaknesses in his game.

Looking at Cam's results reminded me of my in-game experiences 20 years ago. Now I start slow and get slower. The good news for me is that most guys have aged faster than I have. The bad news is, nobody can stay young enough for 90 minutes to not hurt badly the next day at my age.
 

Longfrog

Active Member
I was looking through random stats last night and that also caught my eye. Norrie is 8-16 this year when losing the 1st set which seemed pretty good. Article from a year ago said all time rate is about 22%. Sampras and Djokovic had highest rate in low 40s.

Here’s an article on how Cam wore him down with his backhand.

 

Jared7

Active Member
Cam Norrie's chances to make the ATP Finals at Turin really depend on how well he does the next few weeks relative to to how well Hubert Hurkacz does, whom he currently trails by about 250 points. Hurkacz just cracked the Top 10 for the first time ever after his quarters loss to Dimitrov at Indian Wells; his most impressive performances this year were winning the Masters 1000 event at Miami (like Cam, his first ever) and making the semis at Wimbledon. He's only the second Pole to ever crack the Top 10 and he's been steadily climbing since being outside the Top 400 4 years ago. Hurkacz is not playing this week at either Antwerp or Moscow, but he'll probably be at Vienna, Stockholm and Paris just like Cam. Of those, Paris is a ATP 1000 event and could well be the decider if either do particularly well there. (Or if someone else that's close to both does well there, they could pass both).

Of course, if either make the ATP Finals, neither will be favored to even win a match there, but just making it is a goal for both. It's essentially Norrie or Hurkacz for the last slot.
 
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Longfrog

Active Member
Listening to an ATP pod today and they said Cam originally committed to U. of Michigan. Had no idea. That led me to this article which provides some details.


I tried to find out why Berque got fired, and there seems to be no rumors other than that he just couldn't beat Ohio State. But he landed on his feet, winning a natty at UT.
 

jake102

Active Member
Cam Norrie's chances to make the ATP Finals at Turin really depend on how well he does the next few weeks relative to to how well Hubert Hurkacz does, whom he currently trails by about 250 points. Hurkacz just cracked the Top 10 for the first time ever after his quarters loss to Dimitrov at Indian Wells; his most impressive performances this year were winning the Masters 1000 event at Miami (like Cam, his first ever) and making the semis at Wimbledon. He's only the second Pole to ever crack the Top 10 and he's been steadily climbing since being outside the Top 400 4 years ago. Hurkacz is not playing this week at either Antwerp or Moscow, but he'll probably be at Vienna, Stockholm and Paris just like Cam. Of those, Paris is a ATP 1000 event and could well be the decider if either do particularly well there. (Or if someone else that's close to both does well there, they could pass both).

Of course, if either make the ATP Finals, neither will be favored to even win a match there, but just making it is a goal for both. It's essentially Norrie or Hurkacz for the last slot.

I still think there’s a chance Djokovic doesn’t play Turin. Especially if they have any tight vaccination standards or COVID rules

Edit: he’s playing Turin. Darn

Hurkacz it is
 

Jared7

Active Member
Listening to an ATP pod today and they said Cam originally committed to U. of Michigan. Had no idea. That led me to this article which provides some details.


I tried to find out why Berque got fired, and there seems to be no rumors other than that he just couldn't beat Ohio State. But he landed on his feet, winning a natty at UT.
Yeah, Norrie originally committed to Michigan. But the AD there - David Brandon - who had been CEO at Domino's Pizza and later moved on to ToysRUS, was there from only 2010-14, and he developed a reputation and habit for firing every coach, presumably, to bring in his own team. He did it in 14 different sports and didn't always have replacements lined up when he pulled the trigger. That definitely happened in tennis, so for a time, there was no coach when Berque was fired. Adam Steinberg was eventually hired, but in the interim, Cam looked around a bit more than initially. And he realized that Michigan was in a cold climate and played largely indoors for much of the season. They had initially taken him to an early September Notre Dame-Michigan game and he was impressed, but he also wanted to have good weather all year round. Roditi, in one of his first coups, was able to use that and get the top recruit. Brandon himself was let go not long thereafter for a wide variety of controversies.
 

Jared7

Active Member
I think that Juan Carlos Aguilar, Lui Maxted and Pedro Vives Marcos will be heading to San Diego (starting 11/5) for the ITA Nationals this year. (I think I posted earlier that it would be in New York, like previous years, but instead it will be at the Barnes Tennis Center in SD). The reason I say "I think" is because they've introduced super-regionals for some this year and I'm not sure if we'll have to go through those.

Cam's Indian Wells title was not only the first ever for a British player, it was the first time an ex-college player has won there since 1985. So, all the various college sites and twitter pages have been congratulating him all week. His success is very college/university oriented - most successful pros follow the "move straight from juniors into the pros" model - he is currently the most successful at following the college model.
 

jake102

Active Member
His success is very college/university oriented - most successful pros follow the "move straight from juniors into the pros" model - he is currently the most successful at following the college model.

Isner? I know Norrie is currently ahead of him, but Isner reached a career high of #8
 
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