• The KillerFrogs

Montigel files age discrimination suit against TCU

FrogBall09

Active Member
on a positive note - I did see the plans for the TCU practice facility and dedicated building at Colonial today - it will sit on the east side driving range and take up the northern 1/3rd of the current expanded tee area.

Looks like TCU will own 2 of the 3 bays plus have some level of lounge/locker room for the players and the entire building will have a "comfort station" (food, refreshments, etc) similar to the one the club added by 13 green after the restoration.
 

kaiser soze

Active Member
when they are over the age of 50 - contract ending is irrelevant unless you told them upfront and in the language of the contract it is a one time contract for a fixed term and delivery of a certain set of responsibilities.
Understood on the first part regarding 40-50+ year olds in a standard contractual employment arrangement.

Its the part after unless that i am referring to ... I'd be surprised if any major athletics department is not issuing carefully vetted and crafted agreements to its coaching staffs that give the university/ADs material leeway and flexibility in their decision to renew or not renew at expiry. Decision makers, budgets, conferences all change every so often and it goes with the territory. I'd also expect that the contract a head golf coach signs would be a different form altogether than an non-tenured professor in the history department who is on a year to year or 2-3 year contract term.
 

Spike

Full Member
Found it on pacer. it's 30 pages. Inbox me and I will email it to you. Will read this later when I can't sleep.
 

tjcoffice

Active Member
So, I looked at the Complaint. The suit is in Federal court as Cause No. 24-CV-611. As someone who files lawsuits on behalf of employees all the time, other than the extraneous allegations *not* based on age discrimination, my opinion, its not the strongest case. It lacks any direct evidence of age discrimination, and its circumstantial evidence of age discrimination strikes me as the sort of thing easily rebutted. I would not file a case based on the age discrimination presented. Then, there is the allegation of retaliation for complaining about age discrimination: Coach M. did apparently file his complaint with the EEOC while still employed. Good, I like that. But the alleged retaliation - the silent treatment, excluded from meetings, social occasions - are also fairly easily rebutted. Heck, most employers tell management to be super careful around someone who has filed a complaint of discrimination. So, some silence is almost expected.

He says he was denied severance. I know someone here thinks Montigel *was* actually offered severance. But, if so, that might be the best evidence of disparate treatment, if true. Still, this is thin evidence. I would probably not file this sort of suit - except for the extraneous, salacious allegations. Those sorts of things do make employers nervous. But, of course, I generally avoid BS lawsuits, so maybe I would not file a case if all we had was salacious details, which almost certainly would not be admissible.

Someone asked who the plaintiff lawyer is: Rogge Dunn. I do not know the firm, and am familiar with most of the most active Dallas, Ft Worth employment lawyers. We are a fairly small group in the state.
 

Big Frog II

Active Member
So, I looked at the Complaint. The suit is in Federal court as Cause No. 24-CV-611. As someone who files lawsuits on behalf of employees all the time, other than the extraneous allegations *not* based on age discrimination, my opinion, its not the strongest case. It lacks any direct evidence of age discrimination, and its circumstantial evidence of age discrimination strikes me as the sort of thing easily rebutted. I would not file a case based on the age discrimination presented. Then, there is the allegation of retaliation for complaining about age discrimination: Coach M. did apparently file his complaint with the EEOC while still employed. Good, I like that. But the alleged retaliation - the silent treatment, excluded from meetings, social occasions - are also fairly easily rebutted. Heck, most employers tell management to be super careful around someone who has filed a complaint of discrimination. So, some silence is almost expected.

He says he was denied severance. I know someone here thinks Montigel *was* actually offered severance. But, if so, that might be the best evidence of disparate treatment, if true. Still, this is thin evidence. I would probably not file this sort of suit - except for the extraneous, salacious allegations. Those sorts of things do make employers nervous. But, of course, I generally avoid BS lawsuits, so maybe I would not file a case if all we had was salacious details, which almost certainly would not be admissible.

Someone asked who the plaintiff lawyer is: Rogge Dunn. I do not know the firm, and am familiar with most of the most active Dallas, Ft Worth employment lawyers. We are a fairly small group in the state.
Rogge Dunn went to SMU and got his law degree from Texas. Just FYI.
 

Brevity Frog

Active Member
So, I looked at the Complaint. The suit is in Federal court as Cause No. 24-CV-611. As someone who files lawsuits on behalf of employees all the time, other than the extraneous allegations *not* based on age discrimination, my opinion, its not the strongest case. It lacks any direct evidence of age discrimination, and its circumstantial evidence of age discrimination strikes me as the sort of thing easily rebutted. I would not file a case based on the age discrimination presented. Then, there is the allegation of retaliation for complaining about age discrimination: Coach M. did apparently file his complaint with the EEOC while still employed. Good, I like that. But the alleged retaliation - the silent treatment, excluded from meetings, social occasions - are also fairly easily rebutted. Heck, most employers tell management to be super careful around someone who has filed a complaint of discrimination. So, some silence is almost expected.

He says he was denied severance. I know someone here thinks Montigel *was* actually offered severance. But, if so, that might be the best evidence of disparate treatment, if true. Still, this is thin evidence. I would probably not file this sort of suit - except for the extraneous, salacious allegations. Those sorts of things do make employers nervous. But, of course, I generally avoid BS lawsuits, so maybe I would not file a case if all we had was salacious details, which almost certainly would not be admissible.

Someone asked who the plaintiff lawyer is: Rogge Dunn. I do not know the firm, and am familiar with most of the most active Dallas, Ft Worth employment lawyers. We are a fairly small group in the state.
Your post was well-written and insightful. However I would say that every employment lawyer in Dallas knows who Rogge Dunn is. He’s been a force for a very long time. Not a force I like at all, nor a force I respect as a man or a lawyer, but a force nonetheless. So it’s odd you wouldn’t know who that was, unless you are in another part of the state.
 

Deep Purple

Full Member
Just some random thoughts (take it for what it's worth):
  • I'm not a lawyer and have very limited knowledge of age discrimination law. But it's my general impression (based on the experience of other older workers I have known) that age discrimination is among the most difficult discrimination allegations to prove - as opposed to, say, sex discrimination or racial discrimination. You lawyer-types please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
  • I worked with Montigel on a very few occasions while doing Athletics fundraising, so I don't really know him. Just an extremely brief professional acquaintance. He struck me as a very fine man, a true gentleman. But of course that told me nothing of his coaching ability, and I have never been a good enough golfer to be a judge of that.
  • While it's true that it's not TCU's role to be the morality police of its coaches or athletes, that's a very far cry from the stance that TCU should uphold no moral or ethical standards at all - that people should be allowed to do whatever they want on their own time, regardless of how it impacts the employer's image or reputation. I'm not aware of a private or public company in America that operates on that basis. Witness the Baylor debacle.
  • During my nearly 30 years at TCU, this unwritten rule was clearly understood by all employees I knew personally, and a few were even fired for embarrassing the university either publicly or in front of alumni. During my earliest years, gay employees kept a very low profile for that very reason - even though everybody knew they were gay and didn't really care as long as they did their jobs well. Within 1-2 years, it became a non-issue and gay employees could be as open as anyone else.
  • Montigel and I are the same age, but when I retired at age 66, it was a very different experience. I informed my bosses nearly a year in advance that I intended to retire on Dec 31. But the head of my division was planning a reorganization, and it would be much easier to accomplish if I retired four months sooner, between budget years. Really had nothing to do with age, since I had already notified them - just budgeting. In return for agreeing to retire at the end of August, they continued my full salary and benefits for the balance of the year, gave me a generous severance bonus (though the IRS took nearly a third of it :(), and hosted a bang-up, division-wide Deep Purple retirement party. Was treated very well, absolutely no complaints. So it would be very surprising if a longstanding and mostly successful coach like Montigel was not offered a much more generous retirement package than I received.
 

ShadowFrog

Moderators
Just some random thoughts (take it for what it's worth):
  • I'm not a lawyer and have very limited knowledge of age discrimination law. But it's my general impression (based on the experience of other older workers I have known) that age discrimination is among the most difficult discrimination allegations to prove - as opposed to, say, sex discrimination or racial discrimination. You lawyer-types please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
  • I worked with Montigel on a very few occasions while doing Athletics fundraising, so I don't really know him. Just an extremely brief professional acquaintance. He struck me as a very fine man, a true gentleman. But of course that told me nothing of his coaching ability, and I have never been a good enough golfer to be a judge of that.
  • While it's true that it's not TCU's role to be the morality police of its coaches or athletes, that's a very far cry from the stance that TCU should uphold no moral or ethical standards at all - that people should be allowed to do whatever they want on their own time, regardless of how it impacts the employer's image or reputation. I'm not aware of a private or public company in America that operates on that basis. Witness the Baylor debacle.
  • During my nearly 30 years at TCU, this unwritten rule was clearly understood by all employees I knew personally, and a few were even fired for embarrassing the university either publicly or in front of alumni. During my earliest years, gay employees kept a very low profile for that very reason - even though everybody knew they were gay and didn't really care as long as they did their jobs well. Within 1-2 years, it became a non-issue and gay employees could be as open as anyone else.
  • Montigel and I are the same age, but when I retired at age 66, it was a very different experience. I informed my bosses nearly a year in advance that I intended to retire on Dec 31. But the head of my division was planning a reorganization, and it would be much easier to accomplish if I retired four months sooner, between budget years. Really had nothing to do with age, since I had already notified them - just budgeting. In return for agreeing to retire at the end of August, they continued my full salary and benefits for the balance of the year, gave me a generous severance bonus (though the IRS took nearly a third of it :(), and hosted a bang-up, division-wide Deep Purple retirement party. Was treated very well, absolutely no complaints. So it would be very surprising if a longstanding and mostly successful coach like Montigel was not offered a much more generous retirement package than I received.
Incisive perspective, thank you.
 

Hemingway

Active Member
So, I looked at the Complaint. The suit is in Federal court as Cause No. 24-CV-611. As someone who files lawsuits on behalf of employees all the time, other than the extraneous allegations *not* based on age discrimination, my opinion, its not the strongest case. It lacks any direct evidence of age discrimination, and its circumstantial evidence of age discrimination strikes me as the sort of thing easily rebutted. I would not file a case based on the age discrimination presented. Then, there is the allegation of retaliation for complaining about age discrimination: Coach M. did apparently file his complaint with the EEOC while still employed. Good, I like that. But the alleged retaliation - the silent treatment, excluded from meetings, social occasions - are also fairly easily rebutted. Heck, most employers tell management to be super careful around someone who has filed a complaint of discrimination. So, some silence is almost expected.

He says he was denied severance. I know someone here thinks Montigel *was* actually offered severance. But, if so, that might be the best evidence of disparate treatment, if true. Still, this is thin evidence. I would probably not file this sort of suit - except for the extraneous, salacious allegations. Those sorts of things do make employers nervous. But, of course, I generally avoid BS lawsuits, so maybe I would not file a case if all we had was salacious details, which almost certainly would not be admissible.

Someone asked who the plaintiff lawyer is: Rogge Dunn. I do not know the firm, and am familiar with most of the most active Dallas, Ft Worth employment lawyers. We are a fairly small group in the state.
Your post was well-written and insightful. However I would say that every employment lawyer in Dallas knows who Rogge Dunn is. He’s been a force for a very long time. Not a force I like at all, nor a force I respect as a man or a lawyer, but a force nonetheless. So it’s odd you wouldn’t know who that was, unless you are in another part of the state.
Rogge really likes big ugly watches too. it never looks right.

I’m sure there’s a nuisance value here. What’s he asking for?
 

FloridaFrog76129

Active Member
Just some random thoughts (take it for what it's worth):
  • I'm not a lawyer and have very limited knowledge of age discrimination law. But it's my general impression (based on the experience of other older workers I have known) that age discrimination is among the most difficult discrimination allegations to prove - as opposed to, say, sex discrimination or racial discrimination. You lawyer-types please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
  • I worked with Montigel on a very few occasions while doing Athletics fundraising, so I don't really know him. Just an extremely brief professional acquaintance. He struck me as a very fine man, a true gentleman. But of course that told me nothing of his coaching ability, and I have never been a good enough golfer to be a judge of that.
  • While it's true that it's not TCU's role to be the morality police of its coaches or athletes, that's a very far cry from the stance that TCU should uphold no moral or ethical standards at all - that people should be allowed to do whatever they want on their own time, regardless of how it impacts the employer's image or reputation. I'm not aware of a private or public company in America that operates on that basis. Witness the Baylor debacle.
  • During my nearly 30 years at TCU, this unwritten rule was clearly understood by all employees I knew personally, and a few were even fired for embarrassing the university either publicly or in front of alumni. During my earliest years, gay employees kept a very low profile for that very reason - even though everybody knew they were gay and didn't really care as long as they did their jobs well. Within 1-2 years, it became a non-issue and gay employees could be as open as anyone else.
  • Montigel and I are the same age, but when I retired at age 66, it was a very different experience. I informed my bosses nearly a year in advance that I intended to retire on Dec 31. But the head of my division was planning a reorganization, and it would be much easier to accomplish if I retired four months sooner, between budget years. Really had nothing to do with age, since I had already notified them - just budgeting. In return for agreeing to retire at the end of August, they continued my full salary and benefits for the balance of the year, gave me a generous severance bonus (though the IRS took nearly a third of it :(), and hosted a bang-up, division-wide Deep Purple retirement party. Was treated very well, absolutely no complaints. So it would be very surprising if a longstanding and mostly successful coach like Montigel was not offered a much more generous retirement package than I received.

I believe the golf coach was expecting a retirement / severance package at the end of his career (as many at TCU have received) …and he got nothing of the sorts
 

Deep Purple

Full Member
I believe the golf coach was expecting a retirement / severance package at the end of his career (as many at TCU have received) …and he got nothing of the sorts
Possibly. But what is your belief based on? Evidenced in any way, or just your personal feeling?

Many TCU people work into their early 70's and simply don't want to retire before then. Even though I made my own retirement decision and nobody pushed me into it, I had very mixed feelings. I enjoyed my job a lot and during the first 6 months, I really missed the work and didn't know what to do with myself.

Sometimes people just aren't quite ready for the pasture yet.
 
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