I am just accepting the reality of TCU Football

[NovaScotiaFrog]

Well, there’s a statue in front of ACS of a guy who had a 52% winning percentage in the Big 12, and a bunch of people want to bring that guy back. What exactly is the standard here?

Reducing Patterson's TCU accomplishments to "a 52% winning percentage in the Big 12" is the definition of "stats don't lie but liars use stats". Come on.

He was also hired in 2000, in a totally different context than what we are discussing today.

 

[Wexahu]

Reducing Patterson's TCU accomplishments to "a 52% winning percentage in the Big 12" is the definition of "stats don't lie but liars use stats". Come on.

He was also hired in 2000, in a totally different context than what we are discussing today.

I don't see why it's lying. We are with the big boys now, that's what the record was.

This idea that prior to SD's arrival, we were some juggernaut program is ridiculous. We were a middle-of-the-pack Big 12 team. In 10 years we had three finishes higher than 5th place, three finishes lower than 5th place, and four 5th or T5th place finishes. That is middle-of-the-pack no matter how you slice it.

And I honestly don't have a problem with the "we need to get rid of SD" crown, it's the people who claim that he is the reason the program is where it's at today. The ship was sinking if not sunk before he got here, he revived it for one magical year (which nobody really seems to appreciate anymore) and now we are back to where we were headed under GP's watch. And a lot of people seem to pine for the GP years.....I don't get it. As I said, what's the standard? Basically middle-of-the-pack was ok for seemingly so many people when GP was here, why is it so unacceptable now?

 

[Mean Purple]

Well, there’s a statue in front of ACS of a guy who had a 52% winning percentage in the Big 12, and a bunch of people want to bring that guy back. What exactly is the standard here?

I love how you pick and choose certain years. Laughable.
GP has had a Hall of Fame career. Attempting to down play that is foolish.

 

[Mean Purple]

Reducing Patterson's TCU accomplishments to "a 52% winning percentage in the Big 12" is the definition of "stats don't lie but liars use stats". Come on.

He was also hired in 2000, in a totally different context than what we are discussing today.

Wonder who has had their feet planted at the snap and who has not some days.

 

[NovaScotiaFrog]

I don't see why it's lying. We are with the big boys now, that's what the record was.

This idea that prior to SD's arrival, we were some juggernaut program is ridiculous. We were a middle-of-the-pack Big 12 team. In 10 years we had three finishes higher than 5th place, three finishes lower than 5th place, and four 5th or T5th place finishes. That is middle-of-the-pack no matter how you slice it.

And I honestly don't have a problem with the "we need to get rid of SD" crown, it's the people who claim that he is the reason the program is where it's at today. The ship was sinking if not sunk before he got here, he revived it for one magical year (which nobody really seems to appreciate anymore) and now we are back to where we were headed under GP's watch. And a lot of people seem to pine for the GP years.....I don't get it. As I said, what's the standard? Basically middle-of-the-pack was ok for seemingly so many people when GP was here, why is it so unacceptable now?

Maybe I misunderstood you based on the post in the other thread. Post 2017 GP was cooked, the game changed and he shouldn't come back. I think we agree there.

We weren't a juggernaut, true, but at the same time we did accomplish higher highs than teams like Tech, WVU, Iowa State ever did, and what Kansas and Texas didn't accomplish while they shared a conference with him. He had three top ten finishes in 4 seasons and basically owned Texas in a way no TCU coach had ever done. Yes it was bad the last 3 years in particular and yes it was time to move, but he's an all time legendary coach not just at TCU but nationally. He does deserve more respect than calling him mid grade, imo.

 

[Wexahu]

I love how you pick and choose certain years. Laughable.
GP has had a Hall of Fame career. Attempting to down play that is foolish.

Pick and choose? I'm choosing the last 10 years of his career when he coached in a major conference, all other being when he did not. That's not really picking and choosing. If we're playing that game, nobody seems to want to count 2022 in SD's record, where we arguably had the best season in over 80+ years of TCU football.

GP did have a HOF career. But by the end he was pretty much of shell of his former self and needed to go.

 

[Wexahu]

Maybe I misunderstood you based on the post in the other thread. Post 2017 GP was cooked, the game changed and he shouldn't come back. I think we agree there.

We weren't a juggernaut, true, but at the same time we did accomplish higher highs than teams like Tech, WVU, Iowa State ever did, and what Kansas and Texas didn't accomplish while they shared a conference with him. He had three top ten finishes in 4 seasons and basically owned Texas in a way no TCU coach had ever done. Yes it was bad the last 3 years in particular and yes it was time to move, but he's an all time legendary coach not just at TCU but nationally. He does deserve more respect than calling him mid grade, imo.

Splitting hairs here, but I think this might be at least a bit of a stretch. If he's an all-time legendary coach at the national level, the list is pretty long. Although he didn't do it for as long or as consistently, his career is a bit like Frank Beamer's. I bet in 5-10 years if you ask the random college football fan who Gary Patterson or Frank Beamer is, you'd get a lot of blank stares.

 

[NovaScotiaFrog]

Splitting hairs here, but I think this might be at least a bit of a stretch. If he's an all-time legendary coach at the national level, the list is pretty long. Although he didn't do it for as long or as consistently, his career is a bit like Frank Beamer's. I bet in 5-10 years if you ask the random college football fan who Gary Patterson or Frank Beamer is, you'd get a lot of blank stares.

1). I think most college football fans will remember Frank Beamer for a loooooong time. He's in the College Football Hall of Fame for a reason.

2). Better comparison to me is Wittingham, and maybe to a lesser extent Petersen since he had to move on from Boise to prove he could do it at a P5 level. Very very few people were about to do what GP did to stick with one school and navigate TCU (especially TCU, for those of us who lived through the bad old days) up from WAC to the Big 12. Wittingham is really the only other one whose done it.

I'm just saying that statue out in front of the stadium isn't for a mediocre coach, regardless of how it ended.

 

[Wexahu]

1). I think most college football fans will remember Frank Beamer for a loooooong time. He's in the College Football Hall of Fame for a reason.

2). Better comparison to me is Wittingham, and maybe to a lesser extent Petersen since he had to move on from Boise to prove he could do it at a P5 level. Very very few people were about to do what GP did to stick with one school and navigate TCU (especially TCU, for those of us who lived through the bad old days) up from WAC to the Big 12. Wittingham is really the only other one whose done it.

I'm just saying that statue out in front of the stadium isn't for a mediocre coach, regardless of how it ended.

GP absolutely was not a mediocre coach. I said TCU's record over the last 10 years of his tenure was pretty middle-of-the-pack. And it was, I don't think there's any denying that.

There are people that want to bring Gary back. There's even a thread title "Time to Bring Gary Back" and another poster who thinks maybe AD would be a good spot for him. And I can't tell you how many people I've run into that say, "we should have never let go of GP". I'm just saying that there is a lot of forgetting going on in terms of what kind of program and teams we've had in the 6-7 years before SD arrived, and especially the last few. SD jumped on a sinking ship, he didn't bring the ship down, which is what a good number of TCU fans are accusing him of. His biggest "mistake" might have been going 12-2 and making the NCG his first year and setting everyone's expectations at a level that was in no way sustainable given the makeup of the roster.

 

[fanatical frog]

I think GP's coddling of ZE accelerated his downfall. It was just so un-GP to do that with a player, basically letting the kid call his own shots and dictate his own playing time. Don't care how "good" of a kid he was. Not even buying that he was a good kid, good kids don't get benched before the state championship game for doing whatever he was doing, that just doesn't happen unless the kid is a royal pain in the ass. And GP just LOVED him some Zack Evans. And our fan base sure had a hell of a lot of ZE apologists, GP let in and embraced a locker room cancer.

Sure did. The rest of the roster resented the royal treatment ZE got and it showed. Very disappointed in LHCGP over that.

 

[fanatical frog]

It's mostly a talent issue IMO, and if you want to say the acquisition of talent is a coaching issue, that's fair. But acquiring talent is a group effort now ($$$).

How many other Big 12 schools would Josh Hoover start for? How many other Big 12 schools would trade their O-line and D-line's for ours? I would guess the answer to those questions would be not very many. So here we are.....

Problem with the defense is more attitude than lack of talent. Also think the position coaches on defense might need to be looked at during the offseason ....don't believe talent level on defense is the biggest issue.

OL hasn't gelled yet if it ever will....talent level could be an issue there.

 

[Toad Jones]

The stats are convincing on Dykes. In one simple statement, Sports Illustrated said it all. Dykes is an average talented coach.. His skill set does not fit the needs of TCU. (actually, what R his skill set.)..I will also say his skill sets did not fit with California, the Louisiana school, and most likely SMU. With twenty minutes of investigation, we should have realized he would not be a fit for TCU either. But the personalities difference between Patterson and Doniti, Doniti wanted to take control of the football program with a quick decision in favor of Dykes. (It got pretty ugly at times between those two) I think Gary saw Doniti didn't know how to handle a big time program and became very frustrated with the job, and felt he had tenure over the AD no matter who it was. Also at this point, Gary was realizing the future of football, esp with NIL, and began to doubt his abilities to direct a successful program in this current climate. Gary did not help this along and possibly wanted to pass gracefully and leave with fanfare which he deserved. That set the stage and Doniti said to himself, I've got to take control of this mess, right now and Dykes was close. and easy.

The championship team through the grace of God came together. The stars
aligned themselves with that team. Andy became the greatest QB in TCU history with that group of guys,. wow, they just became unstoppable! In my opinion Dykes cannot take much credit for the record of that season based on the current direction of this season. I was fortunate to live and breathe their success too! Boy, was that season REALLY something~! I have to say thanks to the Gods, thanks, so very much! It's a whole paragraph in the book of my life.

I think Dykes realizes he's finished at TCU and cannot give fans and alums an above-average team. Something needs to be addressed with the AD, too. He too, has shown no skill sets for this college football culture with its current climate. That's a TALL order for TCU who in the past has not shown it can hire a great coach. (ck the records) Still amazed we hired CDC for his direction we became more than an above average program. A program admired nationally by all.

All of this in time will right itself, it has NO choice.

 

[Goo]

Well, there’s a statue in front of ACS of a guy who had a 52% winning percentage in the Big 12, and a bunch of people want to bring that guy back. What exactly is the standard here?

Don’t try to diminish GP accomplishments

He took over a TCU team that was in the bottom 10% of college football. We went from 1-10 to besting USC in a bowl game his first year.
Patterson passed Dutch Meyer as the winningest coach in program history.
His teams won 10 games or more in a season eleven times.
Only three times in 23 years did we fail to reach a bowl, in 2004, 2013, and 2019.
He was AP coach of the year twice.

 

[Goo]

Pick and choose? I'm choosing the last 10 years of his career when he coached in a major conference, all other being when he did not. That's not really picking and choosing. If we're playing that game, nobody seems to want to count 2022 in SD's record, where we arguably had the best season in over 80+ years of TCU football.

GP did have a HOF career. But by the end he was pretty much of shell of his former self and needed to go.

Ok, I get what you’re saying. GP was a mid level b12 team in the end and why are we upset with that now. That is misleading because GP lost the fire in final years. But even then we would’ve beaten Houston/SMU almost every time. It’s just watching the missed tackles, poor running game, poor pass rush, etc that people are upset. I’d be surprised if we’re a mid level b12 team too.
The statue of GP is totally deserved though. His transformation of TCU football was amazing. Not only were we bad when he got here but we also had no fans, terrible facilities, no budget, etc. Turning the program into a perineal top 25 team with sold out new stadium in B12 beating UT/OU on the regular was epic transformation

 

[Wexahu]

Ok, I get what you’re saying. GP was a mid level b12 team in the end and why are we upset with that now. That is misleading because GP lost the fire in final years. But even then we would’ve beaten Houston/SMU almost every time. It’s just watching the missed tackles, poor running game, poor pass rush, etc that people are upset. I’d be surprised if we’re a mid level b12 team too.
The statue of GP is totally deserved though. His transformation of TCU football was amazing. Not only were we bad when he got here but we also had no fans, terrible facilities, no budget, etc. Turning the program into a perineal top 25 team with sold out new stadium in B12 beating UT/OU on the regular was epic transformation

GP lost to SMU the last two times he faced them. SMU coached by SD.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Ok, I get what you’re saying. GP was a mid level b12 team in the end and why are we upset with that now. That is misleading because GP lost the fire in final years. But even then we would’ve beaten Houston/SMU almost every time. It’s just watching the missed tackles, poor running game, poor pass rush, etc that people are upset. I’d be surprised if we’re a mid level b12 team too.
The statue of GP is totally deserved though. His transformation of TCU football was amazing. Not only were we bad when he got here but we also had no fans, terrible facilities, no budget, etc. Turning the program into a perineal top 25 team with sold out new stadium in B12 beating UT/OU on the regular was epic transformation

At the very least, he stressed and practiced The Fundamentals, making sure the kids were prepared to play the game. With that foundation secure, we could ascend past mediocrity. Greatness was ever a possibility.

We don't even have a good grasp of The Fundamentals now. Everything has slipped.

 

[Double D]

TCU has regressed to the F.A. Dry era.

At the very least, he stressed and practiced The Fundamentals, making sure the kids were prepared to play the game. With that foundation secure, we could ascend past mediocrity. Greatness was ever a possibility.

We don't even have a good grasp of The Fundamentals now. Everything has slipped.

 

[froginmn]

Pick and choose? I'm choosing the last 10 years of his career when he coached in a major conference, all other being when he did not. That's not really picking and choosing. If we're playing that game, nobody seems to want to count 2022 in SD's record, where we arguably had the best season in over 80+ years of TCU football.

GP did have a HOF career. But by the end he was pretty much of shell of his former self and needed to go.

How many Big 12 programs won 11 games three times during that same stretch?

 

[gohornedfrogs]

Don’t try to diminish GP accomplishments

He took over a TCU team that was in the bottom 10% of college football. We went from 1-10 to besting USC in a bowl game his first year.

Uh, Franchione was the coach then.

 

[Double D]

GP was the brains. He was the Xs and Os guy. FRAN was a figure head CEO type.

Uh, Franchione was the coach then.