Hyman on Expansion/TCU

[Zammers]

QUOTE(Dogfrog @ May 18 2010, 09:23 AM) [snapback]561019[/snapback]
I don't disagree with this at all and this represents as likely a scenario as I've seen. I honestly believe, however, that it would be a stroke of diabolical genius for the SEC to invite OU and TCU. Add them to the West Div, and move Bama and Aub to the East. Just bypass any discussion with UT or A&M on the basis they'd be a negotiating nightmare and might not accept anyway, then announce it as if OU / TCU were the two on your radar all along because they have the "SEC factor". "We never considered any other schools." Seriously, I am attempting not to look at this from the perspective of TCU, but a great move for the SEC. I'm sure the SEC does OK in Texas now, but not like they would following this move. Making DFW an actual SEC location would make a big impact. Again, it wouldn't be TCU alone making an impact on the SEC, it would be the SEC making a huge impact on the Texas market. Jerry Jones is a SEC guy and I'm sure he'd love to host ARK, LSU, OU, Bama, FLA, etc. from time to time.


Wow.....I never really considered this TCU/OU package. It really does make some sense. It adds OU and another private school TCU (to pair with Vanderbilt). Brings the SEC to 14 teams. Spreads the love across the entire south and gives the SEC in-roads to DFW. Plus, they can hold the championship game at Jerry World. Also allows the UT vs. OU game to still be played every year out of conference. Very interesting.

But careful what we wish for.....we better be ready because we could just as easily become a bottom dweller if we don't stay on our toes and continue to move forward......see Baylor in Big 12.

 

[NativeFrog]

QUOTE(Zammers @ May 18 2010, 07:58 PM) [snapback]561266[/snapback]
Wow.....I never really considered this TCU/OU package. It really does make some sense. It adds OU and another private school TCU (to pair with Vanderbilt). Brings the SEC to 14 teams. Spreads the love across the entire south and gives the SEC in-roads to DFW. Plus, they can hold the championship game at Jerry World. Also allows the UT vs. OU game to still be played every year out of conference. Very interesting.

But careful what we wish for.....we better be ready because we could just as easily become a bottom dweller if we don't stay on our toes and continue to move forward......see Baylor in Big 12.


Being at or near the bottom of the SEC would be tolerable, just like it was in the SWC. Can you imagine playing the likes of LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Saturday, afte Saturday, after Saturday? Beats playing the likes of Air Force, Wyoming, San Diego State and New Mexico, even if we do beat up on them all of the time. We could finish seventh or eighth in the SEC and have the opportunity to go to a nicer bowl than we do when we win the MWC.

 

[Dogfrog]

QUOTE(Zammers @ May 18 2010, 02:58 PM) [snapback]561266[/snapback]
Wow.....I never really considered this TCU/OU package. It really does make some sense. It adds OU and another private school TCU (to pair with Vanderbilt). Brings the SEC to 14 teams. Spreads the love across the entire south and gives the SEC in-roads to DFW. Plus, they can hold the championship game at Jerry World. Also allows the UT vs. OU game to still be played every year out of conference. Very interesting.

But careful what we wish for.....we better be ready because we could just as easily become a bottom dweller if we don't stay on our toes and continue to move forward......see Baylor in Big 12.


I know this comes under the heading of shoots and googles, right? But the attraction for OU is that they haven't really been mentioned in any of these expansion plans with Pac 10 or Big 10 so they seem to be stuck with whatever happens. It would allow them to control their destiny.

 

[West Coast Johnny]

QUOTE(Dogfrog @ May 18 2010, 01:42 PM) [snapback]561307[/snapback]
I know this comes under the heading of shoots and googles, right? But the attraction for OU is that they haven't really been mentioned in any of these expansion plans with Pac 10 or Big 10 so they seem to be stuck with whatever happens. It would allow them to control their destiny.


OU is set up to be an expansion loser. The PAC 10 is not interested, the Big 10 isn't either. The SEC? OU is behind Texas, A&M, Clemson, Miami, Florida State, etc. on the SEC's wish list. Oklahoma as a market is not that desirable. OU ain't going anywhere, except into a watered down Big 12. If OU thinks Texas will be their white knight, they may feel the knife between the shoulder blades. It prooves how screwed up college sports are that Missouri and Nebraska are upwardly mobile while OU has better football than either and Kansas has better basketball than both. Athletics don't matter, and as a result, college sports as a product will continue to decline.

To me, it proves how toxic the University of Texas can turn OU into Baylor.

 

[desmith03]

QUOTE(TCUTalor @ May 18 2010, 10:22 AM) [snapback]561055[/snapback]
BrewingFrog, I always like your posts when I take the



What?

 

[Dogfrog]

QUOTE(West Coast Johnny @ May 18 2010, 10:29 PM) [snapback]561401[/snapback]
OU is set up to be an expansion loser. The PAC 10 is not interested, the Big 10 isn't either. The SEC? OU is behind Texas, A&M, Clemson, Miami, Florida State, etc. on the SEC's wish list. Oklahoma as a market is not that desirable. OU ain't going anywhere, except into a watered down Big 12. If OU thinks Texas will be their white knight, they may feel the knife between the shoulder blades. It prooves how screwed up college sports are that Missouri and Nebraska are upwardly mobile while OU has better football than either and Kansas has better basketball than both. Athletics don't matter, and as a result, college sports as a product will continue to decline.

To me, it proves how toxic the University of Texas can turn OU into Baylor.


It could be argued that SEC already has Florida and South Carolina markets tied up so not sure how much Miami, FSU, or Clemson add. Meanwhile, they don't have the Texas market and TCU could be their Texas affiliate. OU brings a national presence as well as a strong regional OK / N. Texas following.

 

[TopFrog]

QUOTE(Dogfrog @ May 19 2010, 12:03 AM) [snapback]561427[/snapback]
It could be argued that SEC already has Florida and South Carolina markets tied up so not sure how much Miami, FSU, or Clemson add. Meanwhile, they don't have the Texas market and TCU could be their Texas affiliate. OU brings a national presence as well as a strong regional OK / N. Texas following.


I don't entirely get these arguments.

If they don't have Clemson, then they don't have all those thousands of Clemson TV sets on Saturdays. Same with Miami or Clemson. Another conference has those through their TV deal, even if it also with ESPN/ABC.

 

[West Coast Johnny]

QUOTE(Dogfrog @ May 18 2010, 10:03 PM) [snapback]561427[/snapback]
It could be argued that SEC already has Florida and South Carolina markets tied up so not sure how much Miami, FSU, or Clemson add. Meanwhile, they don't have the Texas market and TCU could be their Texas affiliate. OU brings a national presence as well as a strong regional OK / N. Texas following.


Oklahoma is a loss on the schedule for many SEC teams, in a piss-poor market, at a school with poor academics, in a state that doesn't produce much D1 tallent, that is handcuffed to Oklahoma State University. They ain't going anywhere except to a watered down Big 12.

 

[micahjh]

So many people are having a hard time wrapping their brains around the fact that Ut (and a&m, and possible Tech if they stick together) are not going to get invited to any existing conference, least of all the SEC. Hyman basically said it, the demands that they are going to have are going to be too much for the existing members to accept. Sure Ut/a&m are the big money makers over here, but the SEC is already at the top of the heap, the last thing in the world they are going to do is allow a 300lb gorilla to sit down at their table and start throwing its weight around.

Ut/a&m are painted into a corner, their only option will be to rebuild around the crumbled bigxii, just like after the fall of the old SWC. You could see a bigxii / mwc merger, but The SEC and the Pac 10 are not about to invite Ut/a&m to come join the gang, regardless of how tempted they are. Sure its all about money, but money is a two sided coin. The flip side is often overlooked, but its just as critical: POWER. All these schools and conferences see what happened to old big 8 members like Nebraska and Colorado. They got in bed with the 300 lb gorilla and watched all the money and power in the big xii, go south to Austin and Norman. Nobody is going to make that mistake again.

Dont you thing its an odd coincidence that the two big conference realignments in modern times have both been started by teams looking to get out of the conference that Ut/a&m are in? Arkansas wanted out away from Ut/a&m when they left the SWC, effectively killing it. Now Nebraska is cutting and running as well. Nobody likes playing second fiddle when it comes to money and power.

Meanwhile, little old Tcu has a very well respected atheletic program, and is ideally situated in a metro media market. Plus, we are going to be a relatively cheap date. We are not going to come to the table with outrageous demands on revenue structure. Make no mistake, if the SEC decides to expand, which admittedly still seems a little far fetched, but if they do, then Tcu will be higher on the list than anybody in the Texas, because we wouldnt require a change in existing power structure.

 

[Opintel]

Then there's the "Bevo Network". or whatever they will call it. It'll happen, because there is $$$ in them thar hills, uh, TV sets.

We will fit perfectly in the expanded SEC. :biggrin:

 

[West Coast Johnny]

QUOTE(Tio Rana @ May 19 2010, 08:29 AM) [snapback]561573[/snapback]
Meanwhile, little old Tcu has a very well respected atheletic program, and is ideally situated in a metro media market. Plus, we are going to be a relatively cheap date. We are not going to come to the table with outrageous demands on revenue structure. Make no mistake, if the SEC decides to expand, which admittedly still seems a little far fetched, but if they do, then Tcu will be higher on the list than anybody in the Texas, because we wouldnt require a change in existing power structure.


My thoughts are that the SEC won't expand. Why would they? Their 12 member club is allready at the top of the college football world. They have the best TV deal with ESPN. The Whorns and Aggies are an attractive target, but like you say, the Whorns are demanding. The other candidates from the ACC seem like small potatos. So I take it with a grain of salt that the SEC will add teams just because the Big 10 does.

As for TCU to the SEC - I'm wearing my purple sun glasses, and I just drank some purple coolade, and I just smoked some purple bud, but I still can't see that happening.

 

[Delmonico]

QUOTE(West Coast Johnny @ May 19 2010, 11:09 AM) [snapback]561593[/snapback]
They have the best TV deal with ESPN.



Not with the Big 10 Network growing like Barry Bonds' head they don't. The question for the SEC is can they squeeze more money out of ESPN if they do expand.

 

[desmith03]

QUOTE(West Coast Johnny @ May 19 2010, 10:23 AM) [snapback]561565[/snapback]
Oklahoma is a loss on the schedule for many SEC teams, in a piss-poor market, at a school with poor academics, in a state that doesn't produce much D1 tallent, that is handcuffed to Oklahoma State University. They ain't going anywhere except to a watered down Big 12.



WCJ, You keep taking shots at Oklahoma's market, but honestly, the Sooners carry almost the entire state's TV sets. Since there aren't any pro-teams (except with the recent addition of the Thunder) competing for market share, it fits within the model of many of the SEC's current membership. Also, with the sheer number of OU-alums in Texas, they would deliver a good portion of the DFW market (as someone else alluded to, above). Don't get me wrong; I don't necessarily give any credence to the OU to SEC idea, but their market isn't as bad as you seem to indicate.

On another note, on what grounds are you taking a shot at their academics? Do you mean the football players or the entire school?

 

[Frogenstein]

OU's academics are not going to keep them out of the SEC. As for OU's general academic reputation they fall somewhere in between UT/A$M and Texas Tech.

 

[HToady]

As we have experince in the past with Arkansas. If you don't have access to the talent rich Texas market, you can pretty much plan on being average in the SEC. Particularly if you are in a state that does not have a good high school system. Such has been the case with Arkansas. Not so much the case with Alabama, which has good high school programs. When's the last time you have seen an article or an Arkansas game on TV? Or for that matter LSU? They just don't get the exposure that they used to. Athletes don't want to go to a Program, where their hometown / family can't see them.

This could easily happen in Nebraska, Missouri, and Oklahoma (to some extent). Once you disappear from the Texas newspapers, football magazines, TV etc. You have to rely on talent in your market, which are the high school programs of Nebraska, Missouri and Oklahoma.

If the SEC were smart, they would take al least one Texas school.

I truly believe this. Arkansas is a 20 year living example.

 

[West Coast Johnny]

QUOTE(Daniel @ May 19 2010, 09:21 AM) [snapback]561599[/snapback]
WCJ, You keep taking shots at Oklahoma's market, but honestly, the Sooners carry almost the entire state's TV sets. Since there aren't any pro-teams (except with the recent addition of the Thunder) competing for market share, it fits within the model of many of the SEC's current membership. Also, with the sheer number of OU-alums in Texas, they would deliver a good portion of the DFW market (as someone else alluded to, above). Don't get me wrong; I don't necessarily give any credence to the OU to SEC idea, but their market isn't as bad as you seem to indicate.

On another note, on what grounds are you taking a shot at their academics? Do you mean the football players or the entire school?


This is all just my two-bit oppinion. But others have the same oppinion. I read this in Bleacher report and I sort of agree with most of it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/393520-...ct-from-fiction
Oklahoma won't get left out because of their history, size, and financial status

The Big Ten has expressed no interest in them for academic and distance reasons.

As I mentioned, the SEC's TV deal doesn't renegotiate until 14 years from now. Until then, adding more schools means more mouths being fed by the same money. So they may not even expand if the Big Ten does.

Texas would cause ESPN to have to come back to the table. There would be no way around it. The same cannot be said of OU because OU is a smaller state than many already represented in the SEC's footprint so it's not the frame breaking change that would require renegotiation.

OU would also come with the baggage of being a package deal with Okie State...

Finally, schools like Mississippi State, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, South Carolina will vote for Texas to come beat them every year because of the prestige and size of Texas and the foray into the hotbed of college football's best recruiting state. These schools will not vote to be pummelled by Oklahoma every year without those same rewards.

 

[Dogfrog]

QUOTE(West Coast Johnny @ May 19 2010, 10:23 AM) [snapback]561565[/snapback]
Oklahoma is a loss on the schedule for many SEC teams, in a piss-poor market, at a school with poor academics, in a state that doesn't produce much D1 tallent, that is handcuffed to Oklahoma State University. They ain't going anywhere except to a watered down Big 12.


You are short selling SEC pride. They see themselves as being at a far superior level of football quality. They don't see OU as a sure loss by any means, with the possible exception of Vandy. You are also short selling the OU market.

 

[Delmonico]

QUOTE(HToady @ May 19 2010, 12:02 PM) [snapback]561622[/snapback]
When's the last time you have seen an article or an Arkansas game on TV? Or for that matter LSU?



last year.......both had mulitple games on both CBS and ESPN.

 

[West Coast Johnny]

QUOTE(Dogfrog @ May 19 2010, 10:40 AM) [snapback]561636[/snapback]
You are short selling SEC pride. They see themselves as being at a far superior level of football quality. They don't see OU as a sure loss by any means, with the possible exception of Vandy. You are also short selling the OU market.


Regardless of my two-bit opinion of the Oklahoma market and SEC pride, do you think the SEC will let OSU & OU waltz in together? Oklahoma State is the ball and chain attached to the Sooners. T Boone Pickens is allready at the ATM machine to get the money necessary to bribe everyone in Oklahoma to make sure the two schools stay joined at the hip forevermore.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/a...4&rss_lnk=2

 

[Dogfrog]

QUOTE(West Coast Johnny @ May 19 2010, 12:53 PM) [snapback]561641[/snapback]
Regardless of my two-bit opinion of the Oklahoma market and SEC pride, do you think the SEC will let OSU & OU waltz in together? Oklahoma State is the ball and chain attached to the Sooners. T Boone Pickens is allready at the ATM machine to get the money necessary to bribe everyone in Oklahoma to make sure the two schools stay joined at the hip forevermore.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/a...4&rss_lnk=2


As we witnessed in the 90's, it's every man for himself. That's what happens when you turn college football over to TV networks and conference power brokers. OU / OSU can continue playing every year just like OU will continue to play Texas. Even Boone Pickens won't dictate what happens here unless he buys ESPN. The Okla. legislature would rather have one school in the big time than to have both schools languish forever in a watered down Big 12.