Hey Gary you suck

[PO Frog]

Chad has been here a long time and Gary still doesn't trust him enough to develop the game plan or do anything other than be a position coach so that tells me that the best thing he does is say "yes sir" and keep his head down and mouth shut. I completely agree that our LB play has gone downhill since he took over as the LB coach which is sad bc our LB's have always been one of the best preforming position on our defense. Even when we had guys like Travin Howard who was only about 205/210 pounds but he still performed at a very high level and I think he was coached by a GA or Cross when he was the LB coach. If I'm being honest, I wish we still recruited the type of guys we recruited when we were in the MWC because those are the type of guys that this program was built on and they weren't just a bunch of chumps (Hawthorne, Blake, Henson, Carder, McDonald, Phillips, Washington, Hughes etc.) I think part of our problem now is we are trying to recruit these so called "Big 12" recruits who don't have a chip on their shoulder, don't want to spend a year or two on scout team/special teams waiting on their turn to start like guys like Carder and Henson did, can't take GP's style of coaching because they have had their a@# kissed during the whole recruiting process and are "too cool" to buy into the culture that made TCU defense the feared and respected unit it was for so long. Our LB's have always performed right up until about 3 years ago when Chad took over as LB coach. I bet Chad doesn't even stay in coaching after GP gets done and blames it on BS like the "game has changed" bc of NIL and transfer portal when the real reason is that he, just like the rest of his defensive coaches, just aren't good football coaches. They have just been riding the coattails of GP who a great defensive mind and schemer.
When it comes to the DL I still think it's because the 2 coaches (why we have 2 DL coaches still baffles me) who are coaching the unit don't know what they are doing. Bumpas coached that DL by himself for years and was able to get great DL play from subpar players. We have really good DL recruits now (according to rivals and the BS stars they put next to their names) and our DL hasn't performed well on a consistent basis in a long time. If Sharp and Fitch are good recruiters but can't game plan then why we keep both on staff is beyond me. In my opinion, nowadays, you either need to be a great recruiter and an ok game planer or a great game planer and an ok recruiter. We have neither when it comes to the DL and who is coaching the unit.
If GP wants to get this team back playing like the teams that the program was built on he needs to quit going after these "Big 12" recruits and start bringing kids that fit the program, can handle his style of coaching and want to just go rip someones head off instead of worrying about getting good pics for their next Instagram story. I mean what could it hurt? It's not like we can get much worse than what we saw against West Virginia.

You are absolutely correct about Kansas. If they come to play and we do whatever you want to call what we did on Saturday we may be taking an L from the worst team in the Big 12.

This is partly true but partly silly. We aren’t going to do better with worse players, period.

 

[4th. down]

This is partly true but partly silly. We aren’t going to do better with worse players, period.

The way things are changing so fast in the collegiate football world we might be able to make it with defensive down linemen that were 3* but had the size and a bad ass attitude, kinda like Pugh was and Bobby Thompson and Matty Linder, on the offensive line, etc. Players that are damn glad to be here and appreciate TCU. Of course, need a new strength & conditioning coach to where we can get a good push on the defensive and offensive lines. Then, do your high dollar recruits on the skill positions.

As an aside, our last good LB coaches were Cross and Phillips. This move of Chad to LB coaching is no bueno.

 

[PO Frog]

The way things are changing so fast in the collegiate football world we might be able to make it with defensive down linemen that were 3* but had the size and a bad ass attitude, kinda like Pugh was and Bobby Thompson and Matty Linder, on the offensive line, etc. Players that are damn glad to be here and appreciate TCU. Of course, need a new strength & conditioning coach to where we can get a good push on the defensive and offensive lines. Then, do your high dollar recruits on the skill positions.

As an aside, our last good LB coaches were Cross and Phillips. This move of Chad to LB coaching is no bueno.

The majority of our guys are 3* already. If recruits had the size and a killer attitude they would be 4* in the first place.

 

[4th. down]

The majority of our guys are 3* already. If recruits had the size and a killer attitude they would be 4* in the first place.

Not necessarily if they have not yet developed the skill set that would be required to go to a top 10 Power 5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the players referenced were not 4* recruits so there's that. Other than our current skill set players, you're right, mostly 3* we have now, not counting transfers.

I remember GP rehashing the recruitment with Tank Carder and the thing that sold him was Tank's highly competitive spirit evidenced by his championship dirt bike racing, just a kid, but he was a champion. He didn't have any other Power 5 offers, and we were not Power 5 ourselves at that time but GP wanted him. He turned out ok for us in the end. GP could see that attitude in him on the home visit.

 

[The TCU Football Jerk]

As we all know, $$$$$$$$$ is the name of this game. If our ass doesn't wake up and realignment gets hot, we are going to be in trouble while we twiddle our thumbs. It's going to take butts in the seats below 20K consistently to get the Board of Trustees attention. Probably no one on that board other than LT knows [ #2020 ] about football and could care less.

Yeah, if we have any hope of joining a power conference in the next year or two, we'd better do something before the music stops. Our athletic program is going to drop about $35-50 million (whatever it is we bring in from the B12 currently) in revenue in a couple of years as things stand. And no way in hail do we get an invite to a P5 conference with the horrible product we're producing right now.

 

[SackLunch]

This is partly true but partly silly. We aren’t going to do better with worse players, period

We would do better with worse players that fit the program and stay longer than a year or two before they hit the transfer portal. A team full of dogs that play lights out for 60 minutes, communicate and are able to make adjustments on the field, do all the little things right that lead to turnovers/big plays, get stronger as the season goes on bc they work their tails off and practice hard all year long, study their playbook non-stop so we can do more schematically which frustrates 5 star players who can't spell cat and worry more about wins and each other than they do this NIL BS, is a team that can compete and beat a team full of 5 star talent any day. We wouldn't be able to consistently win against teams like Bama but the Big 12 teams we play right now and the ones that are about to join could easily be beaten by a team full of kids that had traits like the ones I just listed. People put way too much stock in recruits and how high they were rated and have stopped putting stock into what the coaches and the program develops those recruits in to. We used to take 2 stars and develop them into 1st round draft picks (Jerry Hughes). Now we chase 4 star players and turn them into entitled pansies who transfer as soon as GP tries to coach em' hard. There's no reason we shouldn't be doing what Cincinnati is doing right now bc I doubt they see very many 4/5 star recruits.

 

[Wexahu]

This is partly true but partly silly. We aren’t going to do better with worse players, period.

The difference is incoming recruits are far from finished products. We could very easily do better with worse "recruits", we've done it before.

In fact, the track record here with "highly-rated" recruits is pretty abysmal. Are those guys really good players or just fancy recruits?

 

[PO Frog]

I think people are ignoring the fact that kids have changed in general across the board. Other programs and coaches have adapted — we haven’t. The days of lunch pale 2* players we turn into Jerry Hughes are gone. That was almost twenty years ago. Before social media ubiquity and Instagram running the show, you could cobble together a group of overachieving lower rated studs. Not sure they exist out there. Seems to make more sense to find a new staff that knows how to handle the better talent. It seems to be happening everywhere else around the country.

 

[jake102]

The difference is incoming recruits are far from finished products. We could very easily do better with worse "recruits", we've done it before.

In fact, the track record here with "highly-rated" recruits is pretty abysmal. Are those guys really good players or just fancy recruits?

2016: Sewo - good, Isaiah Chambers - bust for us, BBowen - bust
2017: Reagor - great, Manning - bust for us, W Harris - I don't know how you classify him
2018: Rogers - injury bust, Vongor - injury bust, Hunt - bust
2019: Sorrells - bust, Duggan - good, DFoster- injury/Evans/Miller
2020: Evans - great, QJohnston - great, G Hayes - bust so far

Mediocre results with our top three recruits each class.

 

[Pharm Frog]

I think people are ignoring the fact that kids have changed in general across the board. Other programs and coaches have adapted — we haven’t. The days of lunch pale 2* players we turn into Jerry Hughes are gone. That was almost twenty years ago. Before social media ubiquity and Instagram running the show, you could cobble together a group of overachieving lower rated studs. Not sure they exist out there. Seems to make more sense to find a new staff that knows how to handle the better talent. It seems to be happening everywhere else around the country.

Didn’t read it all but liked for ubiquity.

 

[Wexahu]

2016: Sewo - good, Isaiah Chambers - bust for us, BBowen - bust
2017: Reagor - great, Manning - bust for us, W Harris - I don't know how you classify him
2018: Rogers - injury bust, Vongor - injury bust, Hunt - bust
2019: Sorrells - bust, Duggan - good, DFoster- injury/Evans/Miller
2020: Evans - great, QJohnston - great, G Hayes - bust so far

Mediocre results with our top three recruits each class.

How many games has Wes Harris played in his career? He is ALWAYS hurt. The Noah Daniels of the offense, you just assume he won't be available.

 

[jake102]

How many games has Wes Harris played in his career? He is ALWAYS hurt. The Noah Daniels of the offense, you just assume he won't be available.

I'd give him a bit more credit than Noah, but I hear you. I've been hard on him. Seems like his default is to not play. The Harris brothers haven't been good to us.

 

[Wexahu]

I'd give him a bit more credit than Noah, but I hear you. I've been hard on him. Seems like his default is to not play. The Harris brothers haven't been good to us.

He's played in 19 games, 11 of which were his freshman year. So 8 of the last 32 games.

 

[cheese83]

We would do better with worse players that fit the program and stay longer than a year or two before they hit the transfer portal. A team full of dogs that play lights out for 60 minutes, communicate and are able to make adjustments on the field, do all the little things right that lead to turnovers/big plays, get stronger as the season goes on bc they work their tails off and practice hard all year long, study their playbook non-stop so we can do more schematically which frustrates 5 star players who can't spell cat and worry more about wins and each other than they do this NIL BS, is a team that can compete and beat a team full of 5 star talent any day. We wouldn't be able to consistently win against teams like Bama but the Big 12 teams we play right now and the ones that are about to join could easily be beaten by a team full of kids that had traits like the ones I just listed. People put way too much stock in recruits and how high they were rated and have stopped putting stock into what the coaches and the program develops those recruits in to. We used to take 2 stars and develop them into 1st round draft picks (Jerry Hughes). Now we chase 4 star players and turn them into entitled pansies who transfer as soon as GP tries to coach em' hard. There's no reason we shouldn't be doing what Cincinnati is doing right now bc I doubt they see very many 4/5 star recruits.

I think you're also looking at an increased level of competition on a weekly basis and in a stronger league you need more depth. We used to beat up on some really bad teams with quality Texas and LA talent in the older conferences but still struggled against the good teams.

In 2006 we were 11-2 (Beat Tech 12-3, beat Baylor 17-7) but lost to both Utah and BYU in conference.
2007 - 8-5 and 4-4 in conf (Rolled by UT, lost to AF, lost to WYO, lost to Utah, lost to BYU)
2008 - 11-2 (Lost to OU & Utah)
2009 - 12 - 1 Peak Frogs, beat UVA, Clemson, BYU, Utah, then lost to Boise in the Fiesta Bowl
2010 - 13- 0 Best Team under CGP Beat ranked Oregon St, Baylor, BYU, no. 6 Utah, then Wisconsin and won Rose Bowl
2011 - 11-2 Lost to Baylor and SMU, beat one ranked team (Boise St), conferenece play was a joke that year
2012 we join the Big 12 and the slide begins, only 4 seasons with a winning conf record (2014, 2015, 2017, and 2020 at 5-4).

It's clear once we moved up in competition and weren't playing New Mexico, UNLV, Colorado St, Air Force, etc., and replaced them with better teams we have struggled. It's not the type of player but probably more to do with hitting a ceiling under the current staff/structure.

 

[Eight]

We would do better with worse players that fit the program and stay longer than a year or two before they hit the transfer portal. A team full of dogs that play lights out for 60 minutes, communicate and are able to make adjustments on the field, do all the little things right that lead to turnovers/big plays, get stronger as the season goes on bc they work their tails off and practice hard all year long, study their playbook non-stop so we can do more schematically which frustrates 5 star players who can't spell cat and worry more about wins and each other than they do this NIL BS, is a team that can compete and beat a team full of 5 star talent any day. We wouldn't be able to consistently win against teams like Bama but the Big 12 teams we play right now and the ones that are about to join could easily be beaten by a team full of kids that had traits like the ones I just listed. People put way too much stock in recruits and how high they were rated and have stopped putting stock into what the coaches and the program develops those recruits in to. We used to take 2 stars and develop them into 1st round draft picks (Jerry Hughes). Now we chase 4 star players and turn them into entitled pansies who transfer as soon as GP tries to coach em' hard. There's no reason we shouldn't be doing what Cincinnati is doing right now bc I doubt they see very many 4/5 star recruits.

aside from hughes how many 2-stars became 1st round picks back in the good old days? how many 2-stars got drafted at all? how many of those 2-stars ended up busts and no one noticed because there were no expectations when they came to campus?

finding talent that fits your systems is critical, projecting talent is key, and we haven't even gotten to player development and utilization but can we please stop with the back in the day we were a better team with lesser talent unless you also want to admit that tcu was the oklahoma in those conferences. that the depth of competition wasn't close to what it is now and the resources and money put into those programs are a fraction of what most of our conference competitors spend just to keep up each year

 

[4th. down]

We would do better with worse players that fit the program and stay longer than a year or two before they hit the transfer portal. A team full of dogs that play lights out for 60 minutes, communicate and are able to make adjustments on the field, do all the little things right that lead to turnovers/big plays, get stronger as the season goes on bc they work their tails off and practice hard all year long, study their playbook non-stop so we can do more schematically which frustrates 5 star players who can't spell cat and worry more about wins and each other than they do this NIL BS, is a team that can compete and beat a team full of 5 star talent any day. We wouldn't be able to consistently win against teams like Bama but the Big 12 teams we play right now and the ones that are about to join could easily be beaten by a team full of kids that had traits like the ones I just listed. People put way too much stock in recruits and how high they were rated and have stopped putting stock into what the coaches and the program develops those recruits in to. We used to take 2 stars and develop them into 1st round draft picks (Jerry Hughes). Now we chase 4 star players and turn them into entitled pansies who transfer as soon as GP tries to coach em' hard. There's no reason we shouldn't be doing what Cincinnati is doing right now bc I doubt they see very many 4/5 star recruits.

Your point is spelled out here......Cincinnati. Last 3 years of recruiting 3, 4* on the roster. TCU 13, 4* and 1, 5* and Cinn. @ no. 2 in the nation and we....oh well, forget it.

 

[Wexahu]

aside from hughes how many 2-stars became 1st round picks back in the good old days? how many 2-stars got drafted at all? how many of those 2-stars ended up busts and no one noticed because there were no expectations when they came to campus?

finding talent that fits your systems is critical, projecting talent is key, and we haven't even gotten to player development and utilization but can we please stop with the back in the day we were a better team with lesser talent unless you also want to admit that tcu was the oklahoma in those conferences. that the depth of competition was close to what it is now and the resources and money put into those programs are a fraction of what most of our conference competitors spend just to keep up each year

We convinced ourselves that we were legitimately a Top 10 team (even a Top 5 team a couple of those years) back in the 2008-2011 time frame. Barely had even one 4-star recruit on the roster. So I guess the people who said we really weren't that good were right? And if we really were that good, than how?

In any event, I know those teams were better than these we are throwing out there. And the star ratings would say the current team is much more talented.

 

[4th. down]

aside from hughes how many 2-stars became 1st round picks back in the good old days? how many 2-stars got drafted at all? how many of those 2-stars ended up busts and no one noticed because there were no expectations when they came to campus?

finding talent that fits your systems is critical, projecting talent is key, and we haven't even gotten to player development and utilization but can we please stop with the back in the day we were a better team with lesser talent unless you also want to admit that tcu was the oklahoma in those conferences. that the depth of competition was close to what it is now and the resources and money put into those programs are a fraction of what most of our conference competitors spend just to keep up each year

Good thoughts 8 but still, something you cannot deny........'09, '10' and '11 were pretty good. I still stand behind my original thoughts, blue collar offensive and defensive lines and high rolling 4 & 5* for the skill sets......and with coaching we compete for title every year.

I have a son who lived in Chicago and he was touting Fickell 3 years ago for his hook'ems. Coaching is coaching and we don't have them except for a couple.

 

[Eight]

We convinced ourselves that we were legitimately a Top 10 team (even a Top 5 team a couple of those years) back in the 2008-2011 time frame. Barely had even one 4-star recruit on the roster. So I guess the people who said we really weren't that good were right? And if we really were that good, than how?

In any event, I know those teams were better than these we are throwing out there. And the star ratings would say the current team is much more talented.

why do you keep going back to the same argument about if those teams were really that good or not. the 2009 and 2010 teams were very good, the personnel fit the defensive scheme perfectly and the frogs and williamson hit some home runs in the offensive line with guys like cannon, newhouse, etc....

was there any team prior to the2009-2010 teams that matched up to them? they had talent and depth on the defensive side of the ball, were physical in the offensive line, you had a very good quarterback in dalton, talent at wide receiver, and they played with a focus that i am not sure can be matched during any other 2-year period during gary's time and that isn't a knock on him. that is more a nod to those players.

never been a huge ratings guy because i think the system is misunderstood and has a huge flaw it in. first, for some reason a 3-star recruit is viewed by many as an average recruit which isn't right. supposedly the system is based upon whether or not a kid projects to the nfl which i have never understood why that is the benchmark, but someone decided that was the benchmark so an offensive line prospect like marcus cannon at 6'3" won't project to be a highly rated offensive tackle prospect because he is too short so someone tell marcus he won't make it very long in the nfl at that height at tackle.

another big flaw is the rating system is not based upon how a kid projects in a specific system so take someone like greg mccoy who was a 3-start coming out of woodrow in dallas because of why? goodness knows it wasn't his athletic ability so maybe because at 5'10" he didn't project well as an nfl corner, but in gary's system with those feet and hips and his aggressive nature he was a perfect fit if he trusted the scheme. thing is none of that gets factored into the ratings because the experts i would bet don't try to project in that manner because they have as much a clue as most of the posters on this board

finally, how do you rate kids across the metroplex, state, and country if you don't understand the level of competition. multiple examples here. maponga didn't look like an athlete, didn't have great measurables, but according to the coaches in his district he was a nightmare to block and all he did was make plays in a solid district. if you don't go flip those rocks, talk to those coaches, and know the talent in that district how do you rate him? andy dalton basically pitched the ball back to the tailback and then blocked for joseph at katy and occassionally threw deep on play action so without the summer passing leagues we have now how do you know about his arm strength and intangibles unless you go to katy high? how do you know about jimmy young in nw louisiana or foltz in kansas unless you really knew those areas which aren't loaded with subscribers so if you are a service you cover the big areas and the big schools

one thing i always liked about anthony bourdain's travel show was he often went to the places were the average people ate and focused on the skill of the chefs who took the leftover parts and made great meals. a truly great chef can take good ingredients, bring out the best in those, meld them together and create a remarkable meal. stopped eating at steak houses because i got tired of paying way too much money for supposedly prime meat that really wasn't done much with, had some sauce on it to try to dress it up, and the sides really don't go well with the meal

sound familar? the 09-10 teams had talent and we see that because that was the group that did send multiple kids to the nfl, that talent was developed, and it fit together. these teams now have talent, but it isn't being developed, the quality of kitchen staff has fallen off, and the executive chef would rather be on "food network, travel channel etc..." than be in kitchen

 

[Eight]

Good thoughts 8 but still, something you cannot deny........'09, '10' and '11 were pretty good. I still stand behind my original thoughts, blue collar offensive and defensive lines and high rolling 4 & 5* for the skill sets......and with coaching we compete for title every year.

I have a son who lived in Chicago and he was touting Fickell 3 years ago for his hook'ems. Coaching is coaching and we don't have them except for a couple.

as i said above, they were good teams, 09-10 were very good and the talent was underrated, it was developed, it was utilized, and they played with a focus unlike today. so is that on the talent or those in charge of developing the talent?

i will also say that if you go back and look at the recruiting classes 1998-2005 look at all the 2-stars and note how many of those prospects even made a real impact and how many are names you don't remember. the 2006-08 class are where we see the 2-star homeruns that people often point to so why them and not those classes before?