FIRE PATTERSON

[tmcats]

Mr. Bigglesworth, you make my expectations point very well. tcu is not ou or texas, nor is any other school in the conference.

most of us look at tcu football as a quality program today, while tcu basketball is something below that level even though run by a high-profile coach. my point is: tcu football risks turning into tcu basketball if you were to run-off gary patterson.

answer this question: which b12 coach(s) would leave his program for the tcu job?

 

[CountryFrog]

Not using Baylor's one good year, just showing that they had a worse case scenario and bounced 100% back.

TCU and Patterson could/should work together to plan his phase out (like Stoops). Maybe they are. Don't know.

However - the program is not even a middle of the pack conference program any longer. Not my opinion, it's fact. Look at the record.

If TCU athletics is comfortable with that it's their right to do so. However, already dwindling attendance and interest set in two years ago. We've become complacent and scared to change the bell cow. And it's not good business practice. In my opinion, obviously.

If you're not using Baylor's one good year then what exactly are you basing the idea that they bounced 100% back on?

Our program obviously needs some changes but I'm just not looking to Waco as some kind of case study. I like the other guy's idea - let's just be like Clemson.

 

[Pharm Frog]

If you're not using Baylor's one good year then what exactly are you basing the idea that they bounced 100% back on?

Our program obviously needs some changes but I'm just not looking to Waco as some kind of case study. I like the other guy's idea - let's just be like Clemson.

Nope. Clemson has the COVID

 

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Mr. Bigglesworth, you make my expectations point very well. tcu is not ou or texas, nor is any other school in the conference.

most of us look at tcu football as a quality program today, while tcu basketball is something below that level even though run by a high-profile coach. my point is: tcu football risks turning into tcu basketball if you were to run-off gary patterson.

answer this question: which b12 coach(s) would leave his program for the tcu job?

Haha well if that’s the case let’s disband the program after gary leaves. This is as good as it gets! Mountain west football babyyy

 

[Despite the odds Frog]

Mr. Bigglesworth, you make my expectations point very well. tcu is not ou or texas, nor is any other school in the conference.

most of us look at tcu football as a quality program today, while tcu basketball is something below that even though it's run by a very high-profile coach. my point is: tcu football risks turning into tcu basketball if they run off gary patterson.

answer this question: which b12 coach(s) would leave his school for the tcu job?

I'm with you with Gary Patterson. But no assistant coach or football staff/personnel is safe.

But perception is about wins. When a program sport is winning perception follows. What you think today about a program it may change tomorrow. Football is cyclical.

Baylor is all time .500 in basketball but right now perception with Baylor basketball is at a high because they are winning.

Brand wise TCU has a better brand nationally than most of the Big 12 besides OU and UT. Patterson and the success since Fran is the reason for that for sure. For basketball I don't think it moves the dial on the national brand unless the program is at the top consistently there like Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Syracuse, Valdosta, Gonzaga, etc.

Most everyone's brand is based on football it is the front porch for universities.

When Patterson steps down TCU should be able to get a top notch coach. If Baylor in the middle of tinkle town can get Dave Aranda, TCU should be able to get a same caliber type coach or better.

TCU has great football history, great location, great facilities, high profits, high salary to give HC and staff, DFW is rated top in every list as best places to live in America (ie. #21 in business insiders list), Fort Worth is definitely one of the nicest, cleanest and friendliest cities in America. High job creation area, but most importantly its a hotbed recruiting area unlike the Midwest or Lubbock or West Virginia. If you know how to recruit this area and the states around, it easy to be top 25. Without Texas recruits other state teams would struggle. Alabama wouldn't be Bama without Texas recruits.

Now about coaches. Only Oklahoma and maybe Texas (and I'm not sure UT could because of the swamp they have with boosters and administration) could entice a coach from one Big 12 team to leave to their team. Patterson hasn't left for Texas and they have pursued him, its been 20 years and he is still at TCU.

Coaches its about money, location, family situation to move to that location, staff and their families, and fit. Chris Klieman is perfect example. He wasn't highly sought after but he loved North Dakota State and would take a lot for him to leave it. Kansas State was the perfect location, perfect for staff and family situation. But he wouldn't of taken a California job that's not a fit. KSU was lucky what he was doing in the FCS is working in the FBS and double lucky its working at a power conference level. Missed on Prince and hit on Klieman. When Patterson leaves who knows if that move will be a hit or miss. Many top brands trying to find that hit. Look at FSU, UT, USC, etc.

Question is, does Patterson move now or later? Some fans want now, some want later. But strength perception is about winning. And TCU needs to start winning.. The end of the grants of rights is coming up and TCU can't afford to be losing. Neither can Kansas State for that matter.

 

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I'm with you with Gary Patterson. But no assistant coach or football staff/personnel is safe.

But perception is about wins. When a program sport is winning perception follows. What you think today about a program it may change tomorrow. Football is cyclical.

Baylor is all time .500 in basketball but right now perception with Baylor basketball is at a high because they are winning.

Brand wise TCU has a better brand nationally than most of the Big 12 besides OU and UT. Patterson and the success since Fran is the reason for that for sure. For basketball I don't think it moves the dial on the national brand unless the program is at the top consistently there like Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Syracuse, Valdosta, Gonzaga, etc.

Most everyone's brand is based on football it is the front porch for universities.

When Patterson steps down TCU should be able to get a top notch coach. If Baylor in the middle of tinkle town can get Dave Aranda, TCU should be able to get a same caliber type coach or better.

TCU has great football history, great location, great facilities, high profits, high salary to give HC and staff, DFW is rated top in every list as best places to live in America (ie. #21 in business insiders list), Fort Worth is definitely one of the nicest, cleanest and friendliest cities in America. High job creation area, but most importantly its a hotbed recruiting area unlike the Midwest or Lubbock or West Virginia. If you know how to recruit this area and the states around, it easy to be top 25. Without Texas recruits other state teams would struggle. Alabama wouldn't be Bama without Texas recruits.

Now about coaches. Only Oklahoma and maybe Texas (and I'm not sure UT could because of the swamp they have with boosters and administration) could entice a coach from one Big 12 team to leave to their team. Patterson hasn't left for Texas and they have pursued him, its been 20 years and he is still at TCU.

Coaches its about money, location, family situation to move to that location, staff and their families, and fit. Chris Klieman is perfect example. He wasn't highly sought after but he loved North Dakota State and would take a lot for him to leave it. Kansas State was the perfect location, perfect for staff and family situation. But he wouldn't of taken a California job that's not a fit. KSU was lucky what he was doing in the FCS is working in the FBS and double lucky its working at a power conference level. Missed on Prince and hit on Klieman. When Patterson leaves who knows if that move will be a hit or miss. Many top brands trying to find that hit. Look at FSU, UT, USC, etc.

Question is, does Patterson move now or later? Some fans want now, some want later. But strength perception is about winning. And TCU needs to start winning.. The end of the grants of rights is coming up and TCU can't afford to be losing. Neither can Kansas State for that matter.

Can this be on the front page of the forum? Everyone needs to read this

 

[tmcats]

the question remains: if you run coach patterson now, which b12 coach would leave his program to come to ft. worth? lots of bloviation but no answer to that straight-forward question.

and if you can't look in the pc and say: well, coach ______ would come, then you can't expect any p5 level coach of gary's pedigree. that's my point or perhaps it's a counterpoint.

 

[Sweat Equity]

the question remains: if you run coach patterson now, which b12 coach would leave his program to come to ft. worth? lots of bloviation but no answer to that straight-forward question.

and if you can't look in the pc and say: well, coach ______ would come, then you can't expect any p5 level coach of gary's pedigree. that's my point or perhaps it's a counterpoint.

I can see where you are coming from but if I had that sentiment as the Chairman of my org (eg. Well, our CEO has record losses but he is the best we can get), I would be voted out.

 

[Despite the odds Frog]

the question remains: if you run coach patterson now, which b12 coach would leave his program to come to ft. worth? lots of bloviation but no answer to that straight-forward question.

and if you can't look in the pc and say: well, coach ______ would come, then you can't expect any p5 level coach of gary's pedigree. that's my point or perhaps it's a counterpoint.

If Klieman left KSU today which b12 coach would leave his program to come to Manhattan? None.

Les Miles would leave in a second to TCU. The rest would come but now is not the right time cause most of them just got to the place they are at now. Klieman wouldn't come to TCU because of location and fit. Riley wouldn't come because he is in a better situation but his assistants would come in a flash. Nobody wants Herman.

Now does TCU want any of these Big 12 coaches. I don't think so. Really Riley is the best coach but he isn't going anywhere. Klieman is good but at the right situation. I like West Virginia's Neal Brown. He just started at WVU and he is an east coast coach.

 

[tmcats]

we have no intention of firing chris klieman. and as for the ceo comment, that would be the athletics director not the football coach.

 

[Pharm Frog]

we have no intention of firing chris klieman. and as for the ceo comment, that would be the athletics director not the football coach.

Well that depends on whether the metaphor refers to a conglomerate.

 

[Despite the odds Frog]

we have no intention of firing chris klieman. and as for the ceo comment, that would be the athletics director not the football coach.

If he was losing like Prince instead of winning your perception would be different. Winning is great. TCU needs to get back to winning.

 

[Despite the odds Frog]

Bottom line is this is a job that is determined by wins and losses. That is why these coaches get the big bucks.

"If I was an AD out there I'd be looking for a guy who has a connection with his kids, who takes academics seriously and still wins ball games. Someone who can balance all of it," Gary Patterson says. "But winning is still how you judge a good coach." - July 26, 2004

 

[Eight]

the question remains: if you run coach patterson now, which b12 coach would leave his program to come to ft. worth? lots of bloviation but no answer to that straight-forward question.

and if you can't look in the pc and say: well, coach ______ would come, then you can't expect any p5 level coach of gary's pedigree. that's my point or perhaps it's a counterpoint.

so you and gary grew up together?

quick comparison of snyder's first stint in the big 12 versus gary's run right now

snyder overall went 90-33, his teams played in 8 bowl games (went 4-4) , won 2 big 12 titles (did choke against atm in 98), had a conference record of 53-27 with a winning conference record 7 of 10 years, and had 6 double digit win seasons

additionally snyder has over 12-14 assistants who have gone on to be head coaches

gary in 8+ seasons in the big 12 hasn't quite had the run of snyder

gary's teams are 69-43 overall, his teams have played in 6 bowl games (went 4-2), tied for 1 big 12 title), have a conference record of 40-36 with a winning conference record in 3 of 8 completed seasons, and 3 double digit win seasons

believe gary has had two assistants who have gone on to be head coaches (baliff and fuente}

yes, there will be risk in making the hiring decision, but if tcu refuses to act out of fear we are scheissed and the trajectory of this program is not upward right now

who is the next coach? no idea, not my job to make that decision, nor is this a matter of not appreciating what gary has done for tcu.

this is a performance business and there is nothing wrong with expecting the program to be competitive based upon the resources provide, facilities, and location

didn't say dominant, didn't say an elite program, i said competitive and if that is too much to ask we need to shut down the program

 

[tmcats]

tcu just beat texas for the umpteenth time under patterson. the frogs are certainly competitive.

i'm looking at you guys from a different, outside perspective. and i can't see tcu getting a better football coach than gary patterson. sure, he probably needs to look at his offensive coordinator(s) and, perhaps more importantly, himself.

but to suggest you'll upgrade after firing him is to my mind foolhardy. i tried to make that case with the question about which b12 coach would leave for ft. worth.

matt campbell turned down florida state. mike gundy said no to tennessee. michigan state offered chris klieman.

so, tcu would likely be left with who: the likes of neal brown, les miles, matt wells, or some flash-in-the-pan like seth littrell? and that, my horny friends, would simply not be an upgrade.

 

[Eight]

tcu just beat texas for the umpteenth time under patterson. the frogs are certainly competitive.

i'm looking at you guys from a different, outside perspective. and i can't see tcu getting a better football coach than gary patterson. sure, he probably needs to look at his offensive coordinator(s) and, perhaps more importantly, himself.

but to suggest you'll upgrade after firing him is to my mind foolhardy. i tried to make that case with the question about which b12 coach would leave for ft. worth.

matt campbell turned down florida state. mike gundy said no to tennessee. michigan state offered chris klieman.

so, tcu would likely be left with who: the likes of neal brown, les miles, matt wells, or some flash-in-the-pan like seth littrell? and that would not be an upgrade.

good thing you aren't on the hiring committee then and why do you keep bringing up the hiring of another b12 coach

 

[tmcats]

good thing you aren't on the hiring committee then and why do you keep bringing up the hiring of another b12 coach

because it forces you to think. it's like forced ranking employees for salary treatment.

 

[Eight]

because it forces you to think. it's like forced ranking employees for salary treatment.

why makes me think?

seriously there is nothing thought provoking about the idea that no other big 12 head coach would take the tcu job?

you position comparing snyder and gary's accomplishments don't hold up when set side by side and this position is ludicrous

who was the last big 12 team to hire another another big 12 team's head coach because i can't think of it ever happening

 

[Salfrog]

tcu just beat texas for the umpteenth time under patterson. the frogs are certainly competitive.

i'm looking at you guys from a different, outside perspective. and i can't see tcu getting a better football coach than gary patterson. sure, he probably needs to look at his offensive coordinator(s) and, perhaps more importantly, himself.

but to suggest you'll upgrade after firing him is to my mind foolhardy. i tried to make that case with the question about which b12 coach would leave for ft. worth.

matt campbell turned down florida state. mike gundy said no to tennessee. michigan state offered chris klieman.

so, tcu would likely be left with who: the likes of neal brown, les miles, matt wells, or some flash-in-the-pan like seth littrell? and that, my friends, would simply not be an upgrade.

Kick the tires on Bob Stoops to see if he would be interested. The worst he could say is no. Basically anyone that TCU would go after and get would be a shot in the dark, short of Saban. Hiring GP was a total roll of the dice. It is what it is, but the trajectory of the program is spiraling in the wrong direction. We can all hope & pray that GP wakes up and gets rid of his carnival of clowns he calls his friends. Let's face it, he has already proven that isn't happening under his watch, which sucks because he & this program deserve better.

 

[Despite the odds Frog]

tcu just beat texas for the umpteenth time under patterson. the frogs are certainly competitive.

i'm looking at you guys from a different, outside perspective. and i can't see tcu getting a better football coach than gary patterson. sure, he probably needs to look at his offensive coordinator(s) and, perhaps more importantly, himself.

but to suggest you'll upgrade after firing him is to my mind foolhardy. i tried to make that case with the question about which b12 coach would leave for ft. worth.

matt campbell turned down florida state. mike gundy said no to tennessee. michigan state offered chris klieman.

so, tcu would likely be left with who: the likes of neal brown, les miles, matt wells, or some flash-in-the-pan like seth littrell? and that, my horny friends, would simply not be an upgrade.

I don’t want any Big 12 coach. Why do we have to get a Big 12 coach? KSU didn't go get a Big 12 coach when they hired Chris Klieman. He came from a lower division of college football.

TCU should most always be better than Kansas State with the hotbed talent in this area to be truthful. Losing to KSU is unacceptable. Just should be. I know that is high expectations and maybe unrealistic and may maybe unreasonable, but it just should be happening.

If that is Gary Patterson or someone else turning things around, TCU needs to get back to winning. Especially with the GoR coming to an end. Big 12 is in the red zone. Do or Die time.