1. The KillerFrogs

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Discussion in 'Scott Nix Frog Fan Forum' started by FrogPreacher, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. CJS explained this at a Diamond Club meeting last year:

    A-jucos can live off campus = cheaper
    B-yes, tcu has very easy to achieve academic scholarships for transfers that high school kids can’t get
    C-presumably the JC kid hasn’t paid much or anything for his first two years at the juco
    D-if he signs pro after one year here, the Mlb team pays for the remaining school...thus...he gets a tcu degree at a very very reduced rate
     
  2. A only matters for academic scholarships. Our issue in baseball is not fully funding athletic scholarships, its that everyone only has 11.7 and we don't get more if a kid lives off campus. I assume he meant that we can get 3 JUCO guys that will live off campus on academic scholarship for what 2 Freshman would take since its only tuition and not R&B for the JUCO guys - but that assumes you can find the JUCO guys that qualify for academics and still are good enough to play at TCU.

    B is not accurate - other than the fact that we can target kids from JUCOs that have high GPAs so they can get academic aid that is available to all upper classmen at TCU. A kid at TCU as a junior has the same shot at that money as a transfer student - so if we had a non-scholarship junior that had a 3.75 on the team, he would be able to earn the same aid that a transfer 3.75 student could.

    I think the point is you know more of what you get with a JUCO than a HS kid - both academically and hopefully performance on the field wise so its easier to target the right people even if the pool of players is smaller.
     
  3. You seriously need to re-evaluate your response to Part B. The lack of a standardized test score alone is a huge difference on transfer v HS as is the relative competition for the scholarship money and the elimination of family income for consideration. Which was the point of frogtex’s post. But let’s play it this way...who has the most likely 3.70 GPA after 45 hours? A TCU second semester sophomore or a transfer from San Jac or Seminole or Howard? But this begs the question because I don’t see anywhere online that existing TCU students can compete for “transfer scholarships”’

    And there’s no doubt that Part A is accurate as well. Set up 2-3 off-campus transfers in a living space and it’s far less expensive than on-campus living. My son was encouraged by his coaches to get off campus as soon as he could to be able to stretch his scholly further and that was for a school that isn’t in TCU’s hemisphere in terms of cost.
     
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  4. Your analysis of part B is completely wrong.
     
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  5. really? I sit on the committee that determines academic related aid at TCU - so you want to explain to me what is incorrect about my statement?
     
  6. so what you are saying is we are willing to lower our academic standards for transfers - that the idea is a 3.7 anywhere is the same as a 3.7 at TCU - and not that the idea is a 3.5 at TCU would be the academic equivalent of a 3.75 at a JUCO?

    I realize the chances of a kid getting a higher GPA at a JUCO with lower academic rigor is higher - that is why when we evaluate transfer students for both acceptance and financial aid - WHERE they come from is a major consideration.

    There are multiple pools of academic aid for each calendar year and level of matriculation within the school - while an existing student can't compete for aid set aside for transfers, they can ask for it from the pool of aid for existing students, which has a larger pool and actually has lower level requirements on average because we do think it is harder to get better grades at TCU than at some less rigid academic institution. It is also why every one is a case by base basis - because a kid transferring from say - Penn - probably doesn't need the same grades as one from San Jac to get accepted or to be offered an academic scholarship.

    and I assume your son is on an academic scholarship or his coach is working to stretch a limited athletic scholarship budget. TCU's baseball athletic scholarships are fully funded and if everyone of those kids wanted to live on campus, it would happen. Living off campus is an option for upper classmen but we are not going to only offer 10.5 scholarships if all the uppers decide to live on campus.
     
  7. The comparison by texfrog was between HS v Transfer aid and you introduced the concept of non-transfer continuing students competing for scholarships with transfer students. It seems pretty clear from what TCU has posted online that there are “transfer” scholarships available for students that meet certain requirements and presumably one of these requirements is that the student is a transfer student. If this is incorrect the University should scrub its website.

    And my son was on both academic and athletic aid. And my son’s school also has a fully funded baseball scholarships program. Other than the 25% rule it makes no difference. Coach wants to stretch the number of quality players he can offer. This is also important when certain aid is limited in the number of semesters it can be offered.

    And you are correct, TCU is not going to limit its total scholarship dollars because of on-campus v off-campus residency. But where you are very wrong and I know this for fact is that our scholly offers do not exist in a vacuum. The players we want to offer have options...often many options. And this is where are completely disadvantaged...dollar for dollar comparison. Or big debt v much less or no debt.
     
    Eight likes this.
  8. my point was every year a student athlete that is not on a full athletic scholarship has the ability to earn an academic one or a larger one if they have some already based on their grades - just like a transfer student does that is coming to TCU for the first time. And its easier for an existing student to qualify if you look purely at metrics actually. It is not only "transfer" students and incoming freshman that can apply for or receive new academic aid every semester - the money just comes from different buckets based on the TCU admission and retention goals.

    I understand your point about the 25% rule now - I was thinking you saying the 25% amount would be less if a student was living off campus and maybe I am wrong, but it has always been explained to me that the percentage has to be calculated on the total cost of attendance, not just tuition even if a student athlete is living off campus. Not sure if you are living "at home" what applies since I have not run into that situation.

    And the overall cost disadvantage is well known by everyone involved obviously - thus the reason why Don Whelan's entire focus in life is increasing the endowment now.
     
  9. Here is the absolute FACT...just confirmed it with a member of coaching staff...a transfer who has s 3.25 gpa or higher in his core classes immediately qualifies for the minimum merit aid of about $12-15,000...no current student who isn’t on academic aid already is getting awarded aid with only a 3.25...
     
  10. #50 Moose Stuff, Oct 14, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
    frogtex just explained it right above this response. And I’ll confirm that his information is 100% fact as I’ve had the person who would know give me that same information directly to my face. You told him his information in part B was not correct. It is in fact correct, hence you are not.
     
  11. actually you are both wrong.

    To start - the average student at TCU is getting over $22k in grants and scholarships - not loans - grants or scholarships. So $28k per year is not really much more than avg existing student and the avg GPA at TCU after completing the sophomore year is below a 3.25.

    Additionally, the transfer scholarship program is $14k semester but limited to $42k - so it won't give a transfer student that full amount the entire time they are at TCU and they will also be expected to not only maintain the GPA they brought in (which is what determined the actual amount) but also apply for additional existing student funding to keep that level for their entire term if they have more than 3 semesters remaining (which they almost always will based on current transfer credit requirements).

    Finally, we have existing students given academic aid based on GPA's at or below 3.25 every semester. Existing student financial aid is partially assigned by the individual schools of study and each has it's criteria - for example what gets you academic aid in the business school may not be the same as the fine arts program. Schools focus on a number of attributes of student performance beyond GPA alone to determine who they give additional academic performance aid and a number give it to students with 3.25 GPA's every semester.

    Also, non-transferring student academic aid is not limited like Transfer scholarships and the amounts given to existing students is higher on average than those given to their transfer equivalents over the term of their attendance. Thus, even if the first semester of assignment is less it doesn't result in lower aid overall - ie. $10k for 6 semesters with no limit is more than $14k for up to 6 but limited to $42k like transfers.

    We have many student athletes that apply for and are granted additional academic scholarships based on their academic performance every semester - student athletes are often the best performers we have in the university based on their drive for success and therefore are one of the larger groups that receive additional academic aid based on their results in the classroom.

    So I guess if you want to say that it is easier to get aid because it is easier to get a higher GPA at another school - then you would be correct but existing students performing at that same level will get more money overall.

    That was channeling my inner Deep and all I got.
     
  12. #52 Purp, Oct 14, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
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    You're either missing all of the points or you're trying to obfuscate enough to avoid facing the music. Pretty sure the baseball staff knows their best chances at getting top talent on campus from an economic standpoint. And I'm pretty sure there are people in this thread with first hand explanations of this from the staff. They aren't fly fishermen.

    I'd say you should quit while you're ahead, but you're well behind at this point. And so am I for reading it all.
     
    Eight likes this.
  13. maybe - guess I will just call you guys to take my place at the next committee meeting.

    Any of you own a tie?
     
  14. Back to the team. This squad should hit. They looked really good on Sunday. There is also a lot of speed on this squad.
     
  15. Alright...what's the lineup?? The weekend starters? Tuesday starter. Set up guys and closer??
     
  16. I don’t even know what you’re attempting to argue at this point. It’s quite simple...... go read frogtex’s original comment in section B, then read your immediate response to it which says “B is not accurate”...... you’re wrong, B is accurate, many JUCO players qualify for far more financial aid than we are able to get for most HS players. I know this because the head coach of our baseball team told me to my face about 6 months ago and frogtex had one of the coaches tell him the same thing last night. I’ll happily admit I don’t know [ steaming pile of Orgeron ] about any of the other stuff you typed, nor do I care if I’m being honest. The one issue above is the only one I’m attempting to address.
     
  17. Purely my opinion..... assuming all are healthy and strong (obviously iffy with JJ/Williamson) the weekend is JJ, Lodolo, and Williamson/Eissler/Green. Tuesday is Williamson/Eissler/Green. Cal closes. Chuck and Augie set him up and the odd man out of the Sunday/Tuesday role is prominently in that mix as well. It’s possible JS has a distinct preference that could effect this. I’m guessing he’d prefer a healthy Williamson on Sunday and Eissler in the bullpen, but again just guessing.

    I’ll leave the position players to someone else.
     
  18. Maybe @smufrogger (I think it was at least) was right about our admissions and financial aid departments lacking
     
  19. Big fan of Cal but not the electric closer stuff we’ve become accustomed to over the years. Can’t remember the last time we ran someone out there that wasn’t mid-90s with FB. Honestly dont care as long as we don’t give up a bunch of free passes.
     
  20. I don’t care as long as we have a ton of games where we are ahead and needing to close it out.
     

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