1. The KillerFrogs
  1. Not sure what that article said but I don’t consider sign stealing in it’s purest form to be even remotely close to cheating.
  2. Just saw an article (with video) referncing Altuve's home run winning shot where he rounds 3rd base protecting his jersey.

    Suspicious is an understatement.
    nwlafrog likes this.
  3. this is the part i don't understand and i am not in any way defending the astros.

    if a runner on second base can see the signs and signals back to the batter that is okay, but a situation where the astros were using the monitors or the giants using a telescope back in the 50's is wrong because they are using outside devices?
  4. I wouldn’t say that it’s “OK” but it definitely isn’t “cheating”. And do it at your own risk because the hitter is taking the next pitch off his head if you get caught. Beyond that it seems like a very obvious difference to me between the two scenarios. Like if I’m walking down the street and there’s a hot chick standing topless in the window and I take a look that seems perfectly OK to me as opposed to me sitting in a parked car with a telescope looking into sorority house windows.
  5. here is the link to the article i referenced prior


    the big difference i see in your example is the two situations aren't the same as in the first you aren't specifically looking for something and in the second you very much are looking for something.

    in the case of the runner on second with all the is going on during a game even if they "accidentally" see the catcher's signs they have to make a conscious decision to pass the information on and there is a very low probability that the runner would adhoc come up with a signal to the batter and the batter recognize it.

    corking a bat, cutting or loading a baseball, or passing on stolen signs don't happen by accident. this is where i just struggle with the overall outrage of the baseball reporters and some of the players in mlb.
  6. You figured it out
  7. They’re doing a massive $100 million renovation, primarily the outfield section, but also making it easier to move around the stadium (which has a lot of stairs).

    They’ve said its not necessarily because Dodger Stadium is hosting the All Star Game this year, but they’ve kinda linked the two.

    It’s a beautiful stadium, but it is old and can be difficult/time consuming for some people to move around.
  8. so should i expect leo to be expelled from the hof anytime soon?
  9. I would compare it more to poker.

    It’s a players responsibility to hide their cards from opponents.

    It’s a baseball team’s responsibility to code their signals.

    If a poker player can’t hide their cards well enough, or if a baseball team can’t code their signs well enough, then that information is fair game.

    A player is allowed to use their own eyes.

    They aren’t allowed to used cameras and electronic devices.
    ftwfrog, bmoney214, nwlafrog and 2 others like this.
  10. Your expectations are your business.
  11. Not sure who you're arguing with, but assume it's an Astros fan making the case that a runner at 2nd base stealing signs is no different than what the Astros did.

    That argument is obtuse for many reasons, but the inability to distinguish the differences between the two situations is stunning to me. Your analogy makes sense, but I think there's a more analogous example to use.

    Signs are a form of communication. The same as talking. I'm sitting in the VA clinic right now and several different people here are having conversations some of which are fairly quiet suggesting they're trying to avoid others hearing what they're talking about. If they don't want me to hear they could go somewhere else more private, but if I do hear it they can't blame me for eavesdropping. I'm just sitting here in the waiting room. That would be a closer analogy to sign stealing from 2nd base.

    Now, let's say I set up electronic surveillance cameras in the wall directly across from them in a private room that could read their lips and translate every word they said for me. Then, after reading the transcript I got sensitive personal information and utilized it to my benefit without them knowing. That's what the Astros did.

    That's quite a bit different than overhearing a private conversation in a public place. In the first example they knew there was risk they could be overheard, but they accepted it and tried to disguise their words. In the other example they were oblivious to a risk of being overheard. Consequently, they took no additional precautions to disguise their words.

    It just seems painfully obvious how traditional "sign stealing" and the Stros/Sox scandals are different. I'm flummoxed how others can't or refuse to see it.
    ftwfrog, nwlafrog and MTfrog5 like this.
  12. I’m guessing your response would have more impact if I knew the code.
  13. Bill Belichick commented he saw nothing wrong with it
    LisaLT likes this.
  14. Good quote from Manaea.

    Says it about as well as anybody I've seen....

    bmoney214, ftwfrog and Boomhauer like this.

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