The Disappearance of Amon G. Carter's Home Field Advantage and Ways to Fix It.

[flyfishingfrog]

I would need to get fact-checked from someone on this, but if you can afford East Side clubs at $12,500/ticket donation (on the cheap side) and don't want them then I am pretty sure you could get with the FrogClub and figure out what an on par donation is to move up on the priority for better seats of your liking.

How? If you give $50k you will move up the list - but if 4 seats in a “better”section are not given up, there is nowhere to go

People were able to jump the west side club almost because they don’t go back into the general pool and it was more than $12.5k per seat to jump to the top

I will agree that if someone was willing to shell out big money- 6 figures that doesn’t start with a 1 - the athletic department might make some calls

but $50k was a pretty normal commitment for the east side club So not sure just offering it as a donation but wanting Westside prime seating instead of east side club would move the needle

 

[AZfrogs]

I would need to get fact-checked from someone on this, but if you can afford East Side clubs at $12,500/ticket donation (on the cheap side) and don't want them then I am pretty sure you could get with the FrogClub and figure out what an on par donation is to move up on the priority for better seats of your liking.

Wow...yes we could and ALREADY did to get our very good seats that we have and enjoy. We donated college tuition type money to get them and do not regret it at all. I wish I could say this slower so you can understand. I’m not complaining about my seats or the process. My comment is just that I WOULD pay more money for better seats if the opportunity arose during the upgrade process. That’s it. You are making my comments into something they are not.

If we were lucky enough to live in Fort Worth instead of Arizona we would consider donating additional money to do what you are suggesting.

 

[HFrog12]

How? If you give $50k you will move up the list - but if 4 seats in a “better”section are not given up, there is nowhere to go

People were able to jump the west side club almost because they don’t go back into the general pool and it was more than $12.5k per seat to jump to the top

I will agree that if someone was willing to shell out big money- 6 figures that doesn’t start with a 1 - the athletic department might make some calls

but $50k was a pretty normal commitment for the east side club So not sure just offering it as a donation but wanting Westside prime seating instead of east side club would move the needle

Fair, which is why I said I would need to get fact checked. I don't necessarily mean west side lower bowl premium seating. But if that person wants 4 seats in a better section and was already willing to do 4 seats for a minimum of $50,000 I would think that get's them to jump a good way up the priority points list and closer to the front of the west side waiting list. I am not saying it's as easy as that. Just pointing out that there are ways to better seats by donating and increasing your priority points. That being said, your point falls in line that the west side club was more expensive to join than the east side so I am not sure why someone would expect to move into those by paying less than the entry. That is just the way it is.

Like ever other school if you want to better your seats than you need to keep donating and wait for your chance. I don't have too hard of feelings about seats being unattainable because people donated an exorbitant amount when they originally acquired them.

 

[Mean Purple]

Wishful thinking...

Where did you get that pic of the aggy band?

 

[HFrog12]

Wow...yes we could and ALREADY did to get our very good seats that we have and enjoy. We donated college tuition type money to get them and do not regret it at all. I wish I could say this slower so you can understand. I’m not complaining about my seats or the process. My comment is just that I WOULD pay more money for better seats if the opportunity arose during the upgrade process. That’s it. You are making my comments into something they are not.

If we were lucky enough to live in Fort Worth instead of Arizona we would consider donating additional money to do what you are suggesting.

Very fair. I am not directing this specifically at you. That is truly awesome that you are in that position - no sarcasm whatsoever, but this thread generated from a topic of fans complaining that aren't in your position. Good on you for being very aware and enjoying your seats. Knowing the situation you are in you could appreciate that those are your seats and will be yours until you decide to relinquish. Once you keep renewing those seats and an expansion or something happens then you should be in good position to move. But there is a Utopian idea on here that the people like you that paid a ton of money for their seats and multiple college tuition type money should relinquish their seats because they aren't always used. Then those seats should be reallocated to "true" fans that wouldn't pay near the money you did.

I keep renewing my seats and making donations and I slowly creep up in priority and upgrade when I can. But I also realize that if I do not donate like you then I won't be in the position to be in premium seats. Because there is someone like you who has greatly invested in the program and is in front of me. The difference is I applaud you and enjoy my own seats while some on here want to constantly witch and feel they deserve better.

At TCU you can't pass down tickets from generation to generation. So naturally there will be attrition on existing accounts. Which is why the only fair way to upgrade is to keep donating and be in position when that time comes.

Lastly, apologies for making the comments something they weren't. After reading your last comment it was just a statement of fact that you would if you could, I get that. We are glad you all decided to become Frog fans!

 

[Mean Purple]

Forgot what this thread was about.
No matter.
We win at least 10 games next year.

Now shut up and get the scheiss back to work.

 

[tcumaniac]

Just as a friendly response I will address your response on my points.

• For one, please don't lump me in the FrogLaw saga haha. I have never once complained about not being able to sell my tickets, as justified by the fact that I give the majority away. Not suggesting you are comparing us but had to throw that out there. That being said, I do think there is a lack of demand as evidenced by the secondary market. I am not simply talking about these sites, but both KFC and 247 have people constantly asking for tickets (for free). I have had to haggle with "diehard" fans on here who want me to drop my UT tickets from $60 to $45. These seats are seats near the 50 near the top of the east side, which at any other school, sans maybe BU, would go for at least $100 in heartbeat. I am not trying to make a huge buck just simply get some of my bait back.
• This continues from the previous point and also into the second, but look at how many dirt cheap tickets go unsold on stubhub. I am with you that they should fix the WSLB and add more seats and help that issue. So if they do that and get a couple hundred more frogs there, does that fix the issue? As you mention, there is certainly a demand for premium seats but not unless it is at a major discount. If I can't even sell my tickets on the secondary market, or these sites, for face then how is there going to be demand to exercise the option for season tickets and lump in the donation that comes with it?

"If unused premium seats were finally released by BMDs and made available to season ticket holders during the upgrade process, or if more premium seats were created in the west side lower bowl, I think you would be shocked by how much demand there was for them, and how quickly they would be eaten up."

• My opinion, contrary to yours, is that I would not be shocked by the little demand for the premium price that comes with premium seats. There would be tons of demand until people realized what the price would be. If your argument is that TCU gouges on price then you need to look around the country. Everyone wanted East Side clubs, including me for my little ones, until I realized the price and how the new tax laws on the donation fit in. Yes they have had trouble selling but they will eventually get there without having to sell them to me for half the price.
• I believe I know your politics and understand your economic thoughts are pretty sharp. I am not lumping you into a certain category that some on here do. But some of your rhetoric when it comes to this topic is that TCU should largely subsidize their fanbase and give them the opportunity to get season tickets at a historic discount to other schools, essentially a handout. I already subsidize it for them and put my tickets out there for anyone and everyone and it falls on def ears most of the time. God bless our military because I have used that donation portal more than I would have imagined.
• Final point, because I am beating a dead horse and no one probably read any of that anyway, is that the clubs are outrageously expensive on the secondary market. But as I take it that isn't your major concern, except for how the closeness of the west side clubs were constructed. But that is a different conversation and we are frankly past that point - AGCS is what it is now for the most part. As we have it now you want the ability for more frogs to be able to be in the WSLB between the 20s. I do think the university can remedy this some by expanding the number of seats by contracting the airport runways. Secondly, maybe they can squeeze out some BMDs and let a group of a few hundred fill in. After you account for those seats, and the fact that clubs will always be expensive and people will always escape to the AC, then you have the rest of the stadium. When looking at the rest of the stadium, including the best east side seats, there are always options on stubhub $100 or below that do not get purchased. If you can't spend $100 on a ticket between the 20s of the east side, then there is in fact a demand issue.

I appreciate your response, and without wasting too much time, I will attempt to address the major points you touched on.

My intention here is not to come across as a pretentious, condescending dbag, but I do want to state that I have far more perspective on this issue than people on this board give me credit for. Without giving away my points of contact, I'll simply say that I have followed and researched this entire situation obsessively for years. I can assure you I'm not just pulling stuff out of my ass and I do my best to acknowledge when I'm making presumptuous statements versus statements of fact.

Anyway, let's start by addressing your season ticket location and the limited perspective it has given you. No offense, but even on the 50 yard line, east side seats near the top aren't extremely special or desirable, which has obviously skewed your perspective.

I can factually tell you that there is a healthy number of people that regularly make a respectable amount of profit selling their extra tickets on stubhub every season. These people are also selling much better seats than you have. And they're also strategic in when they list them and how they price them. Not just anyone can go list all of their TCU tickets on stubhub and expect to make money. You need to have good enough seats, follow the trends in the market fairly closely to know where to price the tickets, and list them far enough out in order to sell them at a good price. I follow the stubhub market very closely, and outside of extremely high profile games, ticket prices typically sharply decline the week leading up to the game as people get desperate to get them sold.

Next, there's a big disconnect in your argument. You're essentially using your experience selling one off tickets at the top of the East Side as proof that there's not demand for premium seats. Seats at the top of the east side, even on the 50 yard line, are not even close to premium seats and in no way can they be compared to west side seats on the lower bowl. There's essentially zero correlation between the demand for single game tickets at the top of the east side on the secondary market and the demand for premium season tickets on the lower west side.

Next, I've never ever made an argument that TCU price gauges our ticket prices. We have some of the most reasonably priced season tickets in the country. Not sure what made you even bring this up.

Next point, nothing I discussed in this thread really has anything to do with the club seats. Our west side club is usually fairly well attended and primarily purple. I wish people would spend more time in the stands watching the game and less time in the club socializing, but the west side club isn't even close to one of the major problems. The East Side club is way over priced. However, I don't consider these premium seats. They're actually terrible seats with a country club attached behind them. They are way higher up than the west side club seats and face right into the sun, and therefore, don't represent demand for premium seats either.

"But some of your rhetoric when it comes to this topic is that TCU should largely subsidize their fanbase and give them the opportunity to get season tickets at a historic discount to other schools, essentially a handout."

• This particular comment is extremely bewildering. Nothing I have ever said even comes close to suggesting that I think anywhere close to this.

"If you can't spend $100 on a ticket between the 20s of the east side, then there is in fact a demand issue."

• Again, your seats aren't as good as you think they are, and your perspective is far more limited than you realize. I know of plenty of accounts that sell east side tickets between the 20s and make a profit every year. Their tickets are just much further down than yours. And FWIW, including the $75 donation for your seats and assuming there are 6 home games, your tickets come out to $62 a game. When you add the 15% stubhub fee, selling a ticket for $100 is almost a 100% markup. Of course you're going to have a hard time getting someone to pay that for seats at the top of the east side. But that has no indication as to the demand for premium seats from season ticket holders. People interested in upgrading to better seats are probably already season ticket holders. They're not part of the audience you are selling to on the secondary ticket market. The majority of the secondary market demand comes from away fans. Again. No correlation between them and the demand for premium season tickets.

 

[NewFrogFan]

So I'm wondering what your approach would be to this. Presumably, some donors gave significant amounts of money to TCU and in exchange, they received seats that they have sold on the secondary market.

Would you go back to them and say, "thanks for the big donation you gave us, but we are taking back those seats now"?

I'm guessing your next contact (when you are looking for another big donation) wouldn't go well.

And big money donors are definitely hard to replace.

I would definitely tell those donors that consistently sell their seats behind the football team to keep their money. We have been to a bunch of stadiums all over this country and no where else have I seen so many fans from other teams sitting behind the home team players.

 

[tcumaniac]

You've clearly beaten this topic to death, but I don't think you appreciate the intricacy of taking tickets away from people. Some may not be big money donors but they're likely almost all TCU people and donors to some extent. I wouldn't, as AD, run the risk of pissing those people off, losing donations, and undoubtedly getting numerous calls from angry people if the upside is getting the "true" fans in better seats. Not sure how you can even think there wouldn't be a difficult conversation if you email people to tell them you're taking away their tickets.

I obviously can't argue this point factually. But sure, the typical person selling extra tickets on stubhub certainly wouldn't be thrilled if the loop hole was finally closed and they could no longer get extra priority points AND make a profit. But I am quite certain they would at least understand and appreciate the reason behind it. I personally know numerous people that have been buying extra tickets in addition to the seats they sit in to sell on stubhub for years. Their mindset has typically always been "Look, don't be mad at me. I'm just taking advantage of the game TCU created. If TCU decides to wake up and change the game then fine, but I'll certainly take advantage of this while I can."

Obviously limited perspective, but at least from the people I know, I wouldn't foresee them being too bent out of shape about it. It's not like they'd be losing tickets they ever intended to actually sit in or use. And if they do want to keep them, they can just stop selling them on stubhub for every game. It's not like TCU would be forcibly taking them without giving the person the option to change their behavior first. Each person would have the option to keep them as long as they didn't continue to chronically sell them on stubhub. I just think you would find that most people would simply go ahead and release the extra tickets, because selling them on stubhub is the only reason they have them in the first place.

 

[HFrog12]

I appreciate your response, and without wasting too much time, I will attempt to address the major points you touched on.

My intention here is not to come across as a pretentious, condescending dbag, but I do want to state that I have far more perspective on this issue than people on this board give me credit for. Without giving away my points of contact, I'll simply say that I have followed and researched this entire situation obsessively for years. I can assure you I'm not just pulling stuff out of my ass and I do my best to acknowledge when I'm making presumptuous statements versus statements of fact.

Anyway, let's start by addressing your season ticket location and the limited perspective it has given you. No offense, but even on the 50 yard line, east side seats near the top aren't extremely special or desirable, which has obviously skewed your perspective.

I can factually tell you that there is a healthy number of people that regularly make a respectable amount of profit selling their extra tickets on stubhub every season. These people are also selling much better seats than you have. And they're also strategic in when they list them and how they price them. Not just anyone can go list all of their TCU tickets on stubhub and expect to make money. You need to have good enough seats, follow the trends in the market fairly closely to know where to price the tickets, and list them far enough out in order to sell them at a good price. I follow the stubhub market very closely, and outside of extremely high profile games, ticket prices typically sharply decline the week leading up to the game as people get desperate to get them sold.

Next, there's a big disconnect in your argument. You're essentially using your experience selling one off tickets at the top of the East Side as proof that there's not demand for premium seats. Seats at the top of the east side, even on the 50 yard line, are not even close to premium seats and in no way can they be compared to west side seats on the lower bowl. There's essentially zero correlation between the demand for single game tickets at the top of the east side on the secondary market and the demand for premium season tickets on the lower west side.

Next, I've never ever made an argument that TCU price gauges our ticket prices. We have some of the most reasonably priced season tickets in the country. Not sure what made you even bring this up.

Next point, nothing I discussed in this thread really has anything to do with the club seats. Our west side club is usually fairly well attended and primarily purple. I wish people would spend more time in the stands watching the game and less time in the club socializing, but the west side club isn't even close to one of the major problems. The East Side club is way over priced. However, I don't consider these premium seats. They're actually terrible seats with a country club attached behind them. They are way higher up than the west side club seats and face right into the sun, and therefore, don't represent demand for premium seats either.

"But some of your rhetoric when it comes to this topic is that TCU should largely subsidize their fanbase and give them the opportunity to get season tickets at a historic discount to other schools, essentially a handout."

• This particular comment is extremely bewildering. Nothing I have ever said even comes close to suggesting that I think anywhere close to this.

"If you can't spend $100 on a ticket between the 20s of the east side, then there is in fact a demand issue."

• Again, your seats aren't as good as you think they are, and your perspective is far more limited than you realize. I know of plenty of accounts that sell east side tickets between the 20s and make a profit every year. Their tickets are just much further down than yours. And FWIW, including the $75 donation for your seats and assuming there are 6 home games, your tickets come out to $62 a game. When you add the 15% stubhub fee, selling a ticket for $100 is almost a 100% markup. Of course you're going to have a hard time getting someone to pay that for seats at the top of the east side. But that has no indication as to the demand for premium seats from season ticket holders. People interested in upgrading to better seats are probably already season ticket holders. They're not part of the audience you are selling to on the secondary ticket market. The majority of the secondary market demand comes from away fans. Again. No correlation between them and the demand for premium season tickets.

In the same right, I was trying not to come off as pretentious. I do not have WSLB seats or club seats but I pay for a nice parking spot and made a calculated decision to move my seats up under the overhang because I have young kids, which turned out to be a great move. I know the market as well because I scour for every game on the sell side and buy side for fun and sometimes to upgrade if there is good weather. My $100 reference is not for my seats. My seats hardly go for $30, which is again a demand issue. I am not complaining that I can't sell them for more. I am just using that as a basis that there aren't a bunch of Frogs waiting in line for season tickets, unless they are next to free. I could have moved to those seats, lower on the east side, that you are talking about people making so much money on. I wanted the ability to have guaranteed weather proof seats and then if I want to upgrade I will go to the secondary market. So unfortunately for you, I am not as naive as to think my seats are worth $100, nor premium like you think I believe. That being said, you obviously understand our east side is only about 60 rows total. That height of seats on the 50 at any other stadium and fanbase goes for $100 without question. Maybe not for every game but when Texas comes to town, if there is true demand then someone should be willing to buy those for $60, which no one did. Which brings me to my demographic and demand point.

I have bought the same seats you are talking about between the 20s on the lower east side for most games for $100 or less. Tons of people on this thread have recently said the same thing that they don't buy season tickets anymore because there is such great value on the secondary market, particularly on the east side. TCU fans have every opportunity to buy reasonably priced lower east side tickets but do not. So my entire point is where are all of these fans that are willing to pay for these season tickets, at the entry that people bought them for, then go to every game and not sell themselves on the secondary market when they can't make it, thus fixing the problem of opposing fans sitting in those seats? Those seats generated from someone paying a pretty penny to have them to help build the stadium. Maybe they make money on a YoY basis but not on the original sunk cost donation basis. I know this because myself and many others can easily buy them for $100/ticket on the secondary market, and gladly do because they are worth at least that.

Lastly, I think you overestimate the TCU fans that would all of the sudden go to every game bc they have premium season tickets, using lower east side as an example; thus, there will always be re-sellers. Again, if people really wanted to go to those games they can. Unfortunately that population isn't out there, thus opposing fans buy them, when the non-existent TCU fan doesn't. It is not like there are thousands of alumni in FW who wont go to games and buy from stubhub because they aren't their season tickets.

 

[NewFrogFan]

Lower east side seats between the 20’s are student seats. They shouldn’t be, but they are. Win and “they” will come. I predict in 2020 if the offense is even close to the same with similar results, season tic demand will easily go down, way down.

 

[Purp]

THE END!

What a tease.

 

[froginmn]

I would definitely tell those donors that consistently sell their seats behind the football team to keep their money. We have been to a bunch of stadiums all over this country and no where else have I seen so many fans from other teams sitting behind our players.

I think that's a very easy thing to say, when your job doesn't depend upon fundraising.

I'm a season ticket holder at U of Minnesota and a couple years ago they increased the seat license fees, planned as three increases over three years. They stopped after year two, as many people threatened to give up their seats. I wasn't vocal about it but would have left too. As it is, I decided to cut from 4 to 2 seats.

If you don't think donors are fickle about their disposable philanthropic money, I disagree strongly.

 

[tcumaniac]

In the same right, I was trying not to come off as pretentious. I do not have WSLB seats or club seats but I pay for a nice parking spot and made a calculated decision to move my seats up under the overhang because I have young kids, which turned out to be a great move. I know the market as well because I scour for every game on the sell side and buy side for fun and sometimes to upgrade if there is good weather. My $100 reference is not for my seats. My seats hardly go for $30, which is again a demand issue. I am not complaining that I can't sell them for more. I am just using that as a basis that there aren't a bunch of Frogs waiting in line for season tickets, unless they are next to free. I could have moved to those seats, lower on the east side, that you are talking about people making so much money on. I wanted the ability to have guaranteed weather proof seats and then if I want to upgrade I will go to the secondary market. So unfortunately for you, I am not as naive as to think my seats are worth $100, nor premium like you think I believe. That being said, you obviously understand our east side is only about 60 rows total. That height of seats on the 50 at any other stadium and fanbase goes for $100 without question. Maybe not for every game but when Texas comes to town, if there is true demand then someone should be willing to buy those for $60, which no one did. Which brings me to my demographic and demand point.

I have bought the same seats you are talking about between the 20s on the lower east side for most games for $100 or less. Tons of people on this thread have recently said the same thing that they don't buy season tickets anymore because there is such great value on the secondary market, particularly on the east side. TCU fans have every opportunity to buy reasonably priced lower east side tickets but do not. So my entire point is where are all of these fans that are willing to pay for these season tickets, at the entry that people bought them for, then go to every game and not sell themselves on the secondary market when they can't make it, thus fixing the problem of opposing fans sitting in those seats? Those seats generated from someone paying a pretty penny to have them to help build the stadium. Maybe they make money on a YoY basis but not on the original sunk cost donation basis. I know this because myself and many others can easily buy them for $100/ticket on the secondary market, and gladly do because they are worth at least that.

Lastly, I think you overestimate the TCU fans that would all of the sudden go to every game bc they have premium season tickets, using lower east side as an example; thus, there will always be re-sellers. Again, if people really wanted to go to those games they can. Unfortunately that population isn't out there, thus opposing fans buy them, when the non-existent TCU fan doesn't. It is not like there are thousands of alumni in FW who wont go to games and buy from stubhub because they aren't their season tickets.

Again. There is very little correlation at all between what you can sell your single game tickets for on stubhub and what demand exists from TCU season ticket holders to pay up for more premium seats. How do you not get this? The vast majority of current season ticket holders aren't on stubhub looking to buy seats. They already have seats! People buying tickets on stubhub are either away fans or a small minority of TCU folks that for whatever reason don't desire to buy season tickets. But as I've repeated over and over again, the secondary market does not represent the TCU season ticket holder. They are two separate buyer pools.

So much of the rest of your post doesn't even make sense, so I won't bother trying to dissect it other than this particular point:

"TCU fans have every opportunity to buy reasonably priced lower east side tickets but do not."

• This literally ignores the entire premise of my opening post!!!!!
• That's the problem! TCU fans shouldn't have to go on stubhub to have access to decent seats. So many of those east side seats are listed for sale every single game. Sure, a TCU fan might buy them every once in a while, but the more likely scenario is that an away fan buys them! That's why my 50 yard line seats in row J of the east side are surrounded by away fans every single game. Tickets in my section are $375 a piece including the donation. Sell each game for an average of $62 and you've already made your money back plus the donation and you get the priority points for them! Average more per game and you're essentially getting paid to earn priority points. And I know for a fact lots of people do exactly that!
• My argument is that those seats being sold on stubhub every single game should be in the hands of TCU season ticket holders that intend to use them. There are tons of season ticket holders on the east side that would love to move down lower if those seats opened up rather than being hoarded to sell on stubhub for a profit to away fans every game.

As I've said before. Stubhub is a great tool for one off situations for when a TCU season ticket holder can't make a game. On the other hand, stubhub has been terribly destructive to our home field advantage when used to sell tickets for every single game.

 

[Frog Wild]

Am I the only one who hears Maniac respond to "What time is it" with a dissertation on clock building?

Oh my god! One of my very best friends (RIP) was the same way and I have used the "What time is it?" analogy for years, even before he died. No one disagrees.

 

[NewFrogFan]

I think that's a very easy thing to say, when your job doesn't depend upon fundraising.

I'm a season ticket holder at U of Minnesota and a couple years ago they increased the seat license fees, planned as three increases over three years. They stopped after year two, as many people threatened to give up their seats. I wasn't vocal about it but would have left too. As it is, I decided to cut from 4 to 2 seats.

If you don't think donors are fickle about their disposable philanthropic money, I disagree strongly.

Ok, I had season tics at LSU before 3 National Championships, the tickets THERE, and the donation required, were more than TCU, now. That was in the last century. What do you think happens now? I have NEVER seen the other teams fans sitting behind the LSU bench. I want to sit in those TCU seats, and have for several years. I can and will pay the donation to sit in those seats. However, I am quickly running out of patience to sit on the 50 on the east side for another September microwave session.

 

[flyfishingfrog]

To be fair to maniac - I am guessing a significant portion of the fans sitting in the 400s would be willing to shell out extra cash to move to the west side 100s and 200s outside the club

I think a ton of people would even sign up for club seats at the economic level of the original west side club

but obviously when you start talking about the east side sun, the $15k per seat for the east side club, etc - people start dropping interest pretty quickly

 

[SoonerFrogs]

+4

 

[HFrog12]

Again. There is very little correlation at all between what you can sell your single game tickets for on stubhub and what demand exists from TCU season ticket holders to pay up for more premium seats. How do you not get this? The vast majority of current season ticket holders aren't on stubhub looking to buy seats. They already have seats! People buying tickets on stubhub are either away fans or a small minority of TCU folks that for whatever reason don't desire to buy season tickets. But as I've repeated over and over again, the secondary market does not represent the TCU season ticket holder. They are two separate buyer pools.

So much of the rest of your post doesn't even make sense, so I won't bother trying to dissect it other than this particular point:

"TCU fans have every opportunity to buy reasonably priced lower east side tickets but do not."

• This literally ignores the entire premise of my opening post!!!!!
• That's the problem! TCU fans shouldn't have to go on stubhub to have access to decent seats. So many of those east side seats are listed for sale every single game. Sure, a TCU fan might buy them every once in a while, but the more likely scenario is that an away fan buys them! That's why my 50 yard line seats in row J of the east side are surrounded by away fans every single game. Tickets in my section are $375 a piece including the donation. Sell each game for an average of $62 and you've already made your money back plus the donation and you get the priority points for them! Average more per game and you're essentially getting paid to earn priority points. And I know for a fact lots of people do exactly that!
• My argument is that those seats being sold on stubhub every single game should be in the hands of TCU season ticket holders that intend to use them. There are tons of season ticket holders on the east side that would love to move down lower if those seats opened up rather than being hoarded to sell on stubhub for a profit to away fans every game.

As I've said before. Stubhub is a great tool for one off situations for when a TCU season ticket holder can't make a game. On the other hand, stubhub has been terribly destructive to our home field advantage when used to sell tickets for every single game.

You are very good at just saying my posts don't make sense and that people don't get it and then go on banging your drum. I have always respected you and you have actually benefited from me gifting you tickets in hoops (which I will gladly do again). Nothing changes that and we can have a beer whenever I am in FW. I don't take message boards too seriously and enjoy the dialogue.

My whole premise isn't that I think fans should have to go through stubhub to buy tickets. It is that there isn't this large portion of the fanbase out there that is willing to shell out for premium east side seats at the entry that the current ticket-holders did, and then use them every single game like you think they will. So now your idea is to strip those seats from them because they sell them and allow other fans every right to buy them for cheaper, comparatively, than anywhere else in the country. It is also assuming the premise that a huge portion of them do in fact sell them every game no matter what. I have no doubt that there are people like that, because I know some. But even if they exercise the option and use those seats one game it is what they paid for.

You claim there is little correlation to stubhub and demand for season tickets. This is where I disagree to an extent. You can use the secondary market as a gauge for how people would react to the availability of season tickets. People aren't going to go to games only if they have season tickets. No it is not a direct correlation but it is there.

Where you believe I am naive or catching me is that you don't think I recognize that you want current season ticket holders to be able to move into the more premium seats. My point is that is Utopian because you are basically going to strip what is already bought and then pull people from the upper east side or from the endzone, or wherever else, and just fill in these "premium" east side seats - at a very low entry price. If it is the fans that already have season tickets that want to move, then poll them and see if they would pay a prorated price for what the current ticket holders paid. If it is overwhelming that thousands of fans suddenly want to have season tickets in the hottest part of the stadium then maybe have the discussion of stripping them from the re-sellers. But then again you are reneging on people that paid a lot of money for the option. And what happens when ticket holders move into those seats and then sell them on the secondary market because they can't make the game, or it is too hot, then we are right back where we started about complaining that frogs aren't in the seats. It's a larger fan/demographic issue than a opportunity issue.

So maybe I deflate the demand and you inflate it, I don't know. What I do know is that even if the plan is pulled off perfect and there exists a ton TCU fans who want to upgrade to the lower east side oven, then you still have to backfill those seats where they moved from. I don't believe we have the fanbase to do that, because again it's already dirt cheap and non-existent in the secondary market. So then we have accomplished the mutual goal of bringing all the potential "true" fans into the premium seats, while the rest of the stadium is a different color, and you have pissed off some of your biggest donors.

I will just use this last example. I have a family member that has 14 season tickets in tiger stadium in baton rouge. All lower bowl and club seats. Maybe just maybe one game a year we have family sitting in all of them. But he paid very good money for that option. Every other game he sells them through LSU's partnership with stubhub, like TCU, to the secondary market. I am sure some of those games visiting fans grab them. But most of the time other LSU fans pay a bunch of money for them. 4x of what the same seats go for in AGCS. Guess why that works. They actually have a large enough fanbase and a demand for those tickets when he doesn't use them. TCU fans who paid for the option of extra seats deserve that too. And it is up to our little fanbase to fill that void. Which my opinion is that from shear numbers that will never happen.

That is the last I will say on this until the exact same thread a few months from now. Your points are well taken and your end goal is something I hope for also. I would say I'd love the option to "upgrade" and grab those perpetual visiting seats next to you (I am a good Frog fan to sit next to if you like people that yell and stand the whole game), but I did have that option and chose to be up in the shade on the same side as my parking. For years I passed up moving to the 50, ~row J from my upper deck west side tickets. The heat wasn't worth it with my kids. I Sure I am not the only one in our apathetic fanbase that has done the same. The only place I wish I could move is the lower west side. But I am realistic in understanding that people paid a lot of money for those and I am going to have to keep climbing the ladder if I ever want them.

 

[HFrog12]

You are very good at just saying my posts don't make sense and that people don't get it and then go on banging your drum. I have always respected you and you have actually benefited from me gifting you tickets in hoops (which I will gladly do again). Nothing changes that and we can have a beer whenever I am in FW. I don't take message boards too seriously and enjoy the dialogue.

My whole premise isn't that I think fans should have to go through stubhub to buy tickets. It is that there isn't this large portion of the fanbase out there that is willing to shell out for premium east side seats at the entry that the current ticket-holders did, and then use them every single game like you think they will. So now your idea is to strip those seats from them because they sell them and allow other fans every right to buy them for cheaper, comparatively, than anywhere else in the country. It is also assuming the premise that a huge portion of them do in fact sell them every game no matter what. I have no doubt that there are people like that, because I know some. But even if they exercise the option and use those seats one game it is what they paid for.

You claim there is little correlation to stubhub and demand for season tickets. This is where I disagree to an extent. You can use the secondary market as a gauge for how people would react to the availability of season tickets. People aren't going to go to games only if they have season tickets. No it is not a direct correlation but it is there.

Where you believe I am naive or catching me is that you don't think I recognize that you want current season ticket holders to be able to move into the more premium seats. My point is that is Utopian because you are basically going to strip what is already bought and then pull people from the upper east side or from the endzone, or wherever else, and just fill in these "premium" east side seats - at a very low entry price. If it is the fans that already have season tickets that want to move, then poll them and see if they would pay a prorated price for what the current ticket holders paid. If it is overwhelming that thousands of fans suddenly want to have season tickets in the hottest part of the stadium then maybe have the discussion of stripping them from the re-sellers. But then again you are reneging on people that paid a lot of money for the option. And what happens when ticket holders move into those seats and then sell them on the secondary market because they can't make the game, or it is too hot, then we are right back where we started about complaining that frogs aren't in the seats. It's a larger fan/demographic issue than a opportunity issue.

So maybe I deflate the demand and you inflate it, I don't know. What I do know is that even if the plan is pulled off perfect and there exists a ton TCU fans who want to upgrade to the lower east side oven, then you still have to backfill those seats where they moved from. I don't believe we have the fanbase to do that, because again it's already dirt cheap and non-existent in the secondary market. So then we have accomplished the mutual goal of bringing all the potential "true" fans into the premium seats, while the rest of the stadium is a different color, and you have pissed off some of your biggest donors.

I will just use this last example. I have a family member that has 14 season tickets in tiger stadium in baton rouge. All lower bowl and club seats. Maybe just maybe one game a year we have family sitting in all of them. But he paid very good money for that option. Every other game he sells them through LSU's partnership with stubhub, like TCU, to the secondary market. I am sure some of those games visiting fans grab them. But most of the time other LSU fans pay a bunch of money for them. 4x of what the same seats go for in AGCS. Guess why that works. They actually have a large enough fanbase and a demand for those tickets when he doesn't use them. TCU fans who paid for the option of extra seats deserve that too. And it is up to our little fanbase to fill that void. Which my opinion is that from shear numbers that will never happen.

That is the last I will say on this until the exact same thread a few months from now. Your points are well taken and your end goal is something I hope for also. I would say I'd love the option to "upgrade" and grab those perpetual visiting seats next to you (I am a good Frog fan to sit next to if you like people that yell and stand the whole game), but I did have that option and chose to be up in the shade on the same side as my parking. For years I passed up moving to the 50, ~row J from my upper deck west side tickets. The heat wasn't worth it with my kids. I Sure I am not the only one in our apathetic fanbase that has done the same. The only place I wish I could move is the lower west side. But I am realistic in understanding that people paid a lot of money for those and I am going to have to keep climbing the ladder if I ever want them.

As an aside can I mention the irony of saying I don't take message boards too seriously and then following with a dissertation that pretty much everyone won't read...haha. Still I just enjoy the dialogue. What I meant is that I don't take things personally on message boards. Go Frogs!