• The KillerFrogs

TCU Administration, MWC are sure to blow it.

713frog

Active Member
QUOTE(Limey Frog @ Jun 2 2010, 12:25 PM) [snapback]567203[/snapback]
A MWC with Boise, BYU, TCU and Utah will get AQ status if the Big 10 expands because that will kill either the BE of Big 12.



you don't know that either
 

froginaustin

Active Member
QUOTE(Daniel Plainview @ Jun 2 2010, 11:31 AM) [snapback]567170[/snapback]
. . .
and can I ask the Members here. Who TRULY cares about Boise States academics? I mean, does it have any affect on TCU? is TCU going to suffer from the poor academic standards of another school?

I care.

Boise doesn't have to be the Princeton of the West, but it does have to have academic standards that exclude professional athletes that aren't "students" except in the loosest since of the word. If it doesn't, Boise will have an unfair competitive advantage over the rest of the conference.

I have heard from fans of MWC8 schools on another board, that one of the reasons Fresno was left out of the original MWC (and was not seriously considered as an expansion candidate when TCU came in) was because FSU was not only using an inordinate number of partial qualifiers, but they had athletes on their rosters that had no business in any 4-year college-- pros or semi-pros, if you will.

The effect on TCU would be the same, I suspect, as it would be if our baseball opponents were bringing in players under pro contracts, who had no classroom responsibilities but only spent their time practicing their athletic skills. I don't know, but I've been told that a typical college baseball player is NOT as good as a typical professional minor league player, even in A or AA minor leagues-- at least until the college man leaves school behind to play baseball full time.
 

Frog89

Active Member
QUOTE(Scarface @ Jun 2 2010, 11:19 AM) [snapback]567160[/snapback]
No way do you adopt Boise State into the MWC.

The only reason players go to that school is because BSU is a long time Junior College which recently expanded to include four year programs. Its much like TCC. Easier classes spell easy grades. They also cater to players with learning disabilities, which is honorable, but clearly suspect.

The day I see the TCU Horned Frogs run out on that ridiculous blue field for a conference game is the day I will understand a little better the full consequences of the SWC break up.

The Broncos are the Ted Kennedy of college football.

What happens when their football program cycles downward, then what do you have? That is when it becomes increasingly important for a university to have recognition. Boise State has none.

Look ahead a little bit.


I think most in favor of this are looking forward. Your above post seems to be looking backwards in order to make your argument. BSU has stayed around enough in football to not have to prove another thing to me. Any answer that comes out of the Wyo meetings other than 'we've invited Boise State' will be unacceptable to me.
 

TCUFrogs

New Member
QUOTE(Daniel Plainview @ Jun 2 2010, 11:31 AM) [snapback]567170[/snapback]
My answer to your question would be an automatic Bid to a BCS bowl and Millions upon Millions of more dollars. we would have greater recognition. More prestige and better recruiting to help push our team further along.

and can I ask the Members here. Who TRULY cares about Boise States academics? I mean, does it have any affect on TCU? is TCU going to suffer from the poor academic standards of another school?



Can you explain where a contract states that?

It is up to the BCS to decide IF they will or will not. They do as they wish, which is based on monetary reasons of self preservation, exclusively.
 
D

Daniel Plainview

Guest
QUOTE(TCUFrogs @ Jun 2 2010, 01:34 PM) [snapback]567247[/snapback]
Can you explain where a contract states that?

It is up to the BCS to decide IF they will or will not. They do as they wish, which is based on monetary reasons of self preservation, exclusively.



yes, there is an IF but we have a much better chance with boise than without boise.
 
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Daniel Plainview

Guest
QUOTE(froginaustin @ Jun 2 2010, 01:30 PM) [snapback]567243[/snapback]
I care.

Boise doesn't have to be the Princeton of the West, but it does have to have academic standards that exclude professional athletes that aren't "students" except in the loosest since of the word. If it doesn't, Boise will have an unfair competitive advantage over the rest of the conference.

I have heard from fans of MWC8 schools on another board, that one of the reasons Fresno was left out of the original MWC (and was not seriously considered as an expansion candidate when TCU came in) was because FSU was not only using an inordinate number of partial qualifiers, but they had athletes on their rosters that had no business in any 4-year college-- pros or semi-pros, if you will.

The effect on TCU would be the same, I suspect, as it would be if our baseball opponents were bringing in players under pro contracts, who had no classroom responsibilities but only spent their time practicing their athletic skills. I don't know, but I've been told that a typical college baseball player is NOT as good as a typical professional minor league player, even in A or AA minor leagues-- at least until the college man leaves school behind to play baseball full time.


I'm confused by what your saying.

Are you saying that schools with low academic standards do not make their athletes go to class which then enables them to practice all of the time like a pro?

or

Are you saying they actually recruit professional players to come to the school and play?
 

froginaustin

Active Member
QUOTE(Frog89 @ Jun 2 2010, 01:30 PM) [snapback]567244[/snapback]
I think most in favor of this are looking forward. Your above post seems to be looking backwards in order to make your argument. BSU has stayed around enough in football to not have to prove another thing to me. Any answer that comes out of the Wyo meetings other than 'we've invited Boise State' will be unacceptable to me.

In the decision to invite or not to invite BSU, the devil is the details-- of course if one of the details is UU out of the conference, then everything I'm about to type counts for very little or nothing.

FIRST, can the TV contract be jiggered so that the networks get extra value (a 10-team league including a very good BSU) and pay more than they are paying now?

SECOND, will a MWC10 with Boise typically end up with no undefeated teams, and no teams in a BCS bowl game?

THIRD, can we avoid a scheduling headache that a 10-team league will bring, particularly if the headache is amplified by the Billy Goat 5 refusing to ever skip a year, scheduling each other?

FOURTH (and this is TCU-selfish, I admit, but so what), will conference revenue go up enough so that our share of the increase is sufficient to pay for sending our non-revenue teams to a remote venue? I've heard Boise has a "nice" airport. So does Springfield, Missouri. But the flights in and out are relatively infrequent and expensive.

If the answers are "no" to a preponderance (or to all) of these and other details, we all might be better off with Boise in the WAC.
 

TCUFrogs

New Member
QUOTE(Daniel Plainview @ Jun 2 2010, 01:44 PM) [snapback]567257[/snapback]
yes, there is an IF but we have a much better chance with boise than without boise.



Based on what? What probability constitutes "much better"? Chance and probability at Vegas?


What if it makes the conference worse? What then?
 

froginaustin

Active Member
QUOTE(Daniel Plainview @ Jun 2 2010, 01:46 PM) [snapback]567261[/snapback]
I'm confused by what your saying.


Too bad for you. It's really pretty simple.

QUOTE
Are you saying that schools with low academic standards do not make their athletes go to class which then enables them to practice all of the time like a pro?


It's been known to happen. Georgia Tech lost basketball coach a few years ago, when such a situation came to light.

I suppose the more common problem is getting players in, that have not spent too much time on classroom stuff preparing for college.

QUOTE
or

Are you saying they actually recruit professional players to come to the school and play?

That's hard to pull off these days, although it happens occasionally in men's basketball, with European and South American leagues and the like. But schools with low or non-existent academic standards can bring in players that might as well be pros, having spent their productive time exclusively preparing for their sport, to the exclusion of reading, writing and arithmetic.

I don't know that Boise should be excluded for academic reasons, or Fresno either for that matter. But the conference should be reasonably sure that any prospective new member meets minimum academic standards, if the schools that do have academic standards are not to be disadvantaged.
 

TCUFrogs

New Member
QUOTE(froginaustin @ Jun 2 2010, 01:47 PM) [snapback]567263[/snapback]
In the decision to invite or not to invite BSU, the devil is the details-- of course if one of the details is UU out of the conference, then everything I'm about to type counts for very little or nothing.

FIRST, can the TV contract be jiggered so that the networks get extra value (a 10-team league including a very good BSU) and pay more than they are paying now?

SECOND, will a MWC10 with Boise typically end up with no undefeated teams, and no teams in a BCS bowl game?

THIRD, can we avoid a scheduling headache that a 10-team league will bring, particularly if the headache is amplified by the Billy Goat 5 refusing to ever skip a year, scheduling each other?

FOURTH (and this is TCU-selfish, I admit, but so what), will conference revenue go up enough so that our share of the increase is sufficient to pay for sending our non-revenue teams to a remote venue? I've heard Boise has a "nice" airport. So does Springfield, Missouri. But the flights in and out are relatively infrequent and expensive.

If the answers are "no" to a preponderance (or to all) of these and other details, we all might be better off with Boise in the WAC.


and FIFTH, will it "automatically" add automatic-qualifying status to the MWC?

TCU has already played in a BCS bowl. The only thing left is equivalent access to the national championship game and automatic BCS bowl on winning the conference, just like the others.
 

gdu

Active Member
QUOTE(froginaustin @ Jun 2 2010, 06:47 PM) [snapback]567263[/snapback]
FIRST, can the TV contract be jiggered so that the networks get extra value (a 10-team league including a very good BSU) and pay more than they are paying now?

I don't know for sure, but I imagine it is unlikely.

QUOTE(froginaustin @ Jun 2 2010, 06:47 PM) [snapback]567263[/snapback]
SECOND, will a MWC10 with Boise typically end up with no undefeated teams, and no teams in a BCS bowl game?

I would think so. How many top teams in other conferences have to play 3 top teams every year? And as I've said before, I think getting in a 1-loss non-aq school will be a MUCH bigger accomplishment than getting in 2 undefeated non-aqs.

QUOTE(froginaustin @ Jun 2 2010, 06:47 PM) [snapback]567263[/snapback]
THIRD, can we avoid a scheduling headache that a 10-team league will bring, particularly if the headache is amplified by the Billy Goat 5 refusing to ever skip a year, scheduling each other?

Not sure. I imagine we'd go to round robin, unless UU leaves.

QUOTE(froginaustin @ Jun 2 2010, 06:47 PM) [snapback]567263[/snapback]
FOURTH (and this is TCU-selfish, I admit, but so what), will conference revenue go up enough so that our share of the increase is sufficient to pay for sending our non-revenue teams to a remote venue? I've heard Boise has a "nice" airport. So does Springfield, Missouri. But the flights in and out are relatively infrequent and expensive.

Once the tv contracts are renegotiated, I would think so.
 
D

Daniel Plainview

Guest
QUOTE(froginaustin @ Jun 2 2010, 01:58 PM) [snapback]567269[/snapback]
Too bad for you. It's really pretty simple.



It's been known to happen. Georgia Tech lost basketball coach a few years ago, when such a situation came to light.

I suppose the more common problem is getting players in, that have not spent too much time on classroom stuff preparing for college.


That's hard to pull off these days, although it happens occasionally in men's basketball, with European and South American leagues and the like. But schools with low or non-existent academic standards can bring in players that might as well be pros, having spent their productive time exclusively preparing for their sport, to the exclusion of reading, writing and arithmetic.

I don't know that Boise should be excluded for academic reasons, or Fresno either for that matter. But the conference should be reasonably sure that any prospective new member meets minimum academic standards, if the schools that do have academic standards are not to be disadvantaged.


thanks for clearing up your thoughts.

you just sounded like a down syndrome child the first go around. But you did much better on your second try.

Good job, heres a sticker,

smileysmall_1.gif



Now go jump in the bathtub with a toaster
 

50FT FROG

Active Member
QUOTE(Daniel Plainview @ Jun 2 2010, 07:22 PM) [snapback]567289[/snapback]
thanks for clearing up your thoughts.

you just sounded like a down syndrome child the first go around. But you did much better on your second try.

Good job, heres a sticker,

smileysmall_1.gif

Now go jump in the bathtub with a toaster

wow
 

halfwaytoheaven

Active Member
QUOTE(froginaustin @ Jun 2 2010, 01:47 PM) [snapback]567263[/snapback]
In the decision to invite or not to invite BSU, the devil is the details-- of course if one of the details is UU out of the conference, then everything I'm about to type counts for very little or nothing.


FOURTH (and this is TCU-selfish, I admit, but so what), will conference revenue go up enough so that our share of the increase is sufficient to pay for sending our non-revenue teams to a remote venue? I've heard Boise has a "nice" airport. So does Springfield, Missouri. But the flights in and out are relatively infrequent and expensive.


This really isn't that big of an issue. Excluding the revenue sports, how much would this increase our travel? Boise doesn't do baseball, men's swimming & diving, equestrian or rifle, we don't do women's gymnastics or softball (yet), and for a lot of sports, there isn't a lot of intra-conference play outside of the conference tournament. The MWC doesn't sponsor regular-season championships in golf, cross-country or track & field (sports that mostly involve multi-team tourneys all over the country), so we don't have to face Boise in those if we don't want to. Basically, that leaves us with women's volleyball, women's soccer, men's and women's tennis and women's swimming & diving, where we would have to travel up there every other year. Considering that we already travel all over the western U.S. for these sports, I don't anticipate adding Boise would make that great of an impact on our expenses.

Also, keep in mind that, geographically speaking, we're the outlier in the MWC while Boise is pretty close to the core of the conference. Sure, it's a lot easier to get a flight to DFW (or Love), but Boise is close enough to some MWC schools for a bus trip or a short regional flight.
 

Frogs1983

Full Member
QUOTE(Daniel Plainview @ Jun 2 2010, 11:31 AM) [snapback]567170[/snapback]
My answer to your question would be an automatic Bid to a BCS bowl and Millions upon Millions of more dollars. we would have greater recognition. More prestige and better recruiting to help push our team further along.

and can I ask the Members here. Who TRULY cares about Boise States academics? I mean, does it have any affect on TCU? is TCU going to suffer from the poor academic standards of another school?

I know when I attend a TCU sporting event,the very first thing I wonder about is the academic standing of our opponent that particular day! :blink: I always bring my Forbes College Rankings list with me to TCU football and baseball games to keep abreast of such things!
 
D

Daniel Plainview

Guest
QUOTE(Frogs1983 @ Jun 2 2010, 03:23 PM) [snapback]567328[/snapback]
I know when I attend a TCU sporting event,the very first thing I wonder about is the academic standing of our opponent that particular day! :blink: I always bring my Forbes College Rankings list with me to TCU football and baseball games to keep abreast of such things!



I heard that the TCU football programs (the ones the Tri Delts hand out) are going to start including it along with the players highschool GPA's and SAT scores. It will also clarify wether or not the players have played in any professional league or not.
 
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