• The KillerFrogs

Southwest just cancelled 2/3rds of their flights Today

Pilots don’t set fares, we just fly the jets, we try to make sure seats are filled, there is ALWAYS someone with a big enough wallet. Supposedly AA added a 787 from Ord to Phx yesterday. I bet if your friend had looked at a flight w a connection, the price was much lower.
Yeah, I know pilots don't set fares. (I did a consulting project for Northwest Airlines a few years ago. Their crew schedulers referred to pilots as "bus drivers", believe it or not.) And yes, there were connecting flights available for my friend. Fares over ORD at that time were in the $2,500 range.

My only point was that AA, or any other airline, was not going to "come to the rescue" out of the goodness of their hearts. They're in business to make money, and they will charge whatever the market will bear -- and I don't have a problem with that. If you, as a passenger, are looking forward to AA stepping in to offer services, be prepared to pay dearly for it.
 

Double D

Tier 1
I worked at SWA in technology from 2000 - 2003. This pilot's account is dead on. Kelly fired the CIO because he thought technology was spending too much $$$. It came home to bite them in the rear this week. I'm not sure Jordan can fix this.

Why dont you publish every single airline out there with contract negotiations that have been in progress for years on contracts that expired in the last decade. You ever been on the tip of the spear? Here is another “view” that nails it.




What happened to Southwest Airlines?
I’ve been a pilot for Southwest Airlines for over 35 years. I’ve given my heart and soul to Southwest Airlines during those years. And quite honestly Southwest Airlines has given its heart and soul to me and my family.
Many of you have asked what caused this epic meltdown. Unfortunately, the frontline employees have been watching this meltdown coming like a slow motion train wreck for sometime. And we’ve been begging our leadership to make much needed changes in order to avoid it. What happened yesterday started two decades ago.
Herb Kelleher was the brilliant CEO of SWA until 2004. He was a very operationally oriented leader. Herb spent lots of time on the front line. He always had his pulse on the day to day operation and the people who ran it. That philosophy flowed down through the ranks of leadership to the front line managers. We were a tight operation from top to bottom. We had tools, leadership and employee buy in. Everything that was needed to run a first class operation. When Herb retired in 2004 Gary Kelly became the new CEO.
Gary was an accountant by education and his style leading Southwest Airlines became more focused on finances and less on operations. He did not spend much time on the front lines. He didn’t engage front line employees much. When the CEO doesn’t get out in the trenches the neither do the lower levels of leadership.
Gary named another accountant to be Chief Operating Officer (the person responsible for day to day operations). The new COO had little or no operational background. This trickled down through the lower levels of leadership, as well.
They all disengaged the operation, disengaged the employees and focused more on Return on Investment, stock buybacks and Wall Street. This approach worked for Gary’s first 8 years because we were still riding the strong wave that Herb had built.
But as time went on the operation began to deteriorate. There was little investment in upgrading technology (after all, how do you measure the return on investing in infrastructure?) or the tools we needed to operate efficiently and consistently. As the frontline employees began to see the deterioration in our operation we began to warn our leadership. We educated them, we informed them and we made suggestions to them. But to no avail. The focus was on finances not operations. As we saw more and more deterioration in our operation our asks turned to pleas. Our pleas turned to dire warnings. But they went unheeded. After all, the stock price was up so what could be wrong?
We were a motivated, willing and proud employee group wanting to serve our customers and uphold the tradition of our beloved airline, the airline we built and the airline that the traveling public grew to cheer for and luv. But we were watching in frustration and disbelief as our once amazing airline was becoming a house of cards.
A half dozen small scale meltdowns occurred during the mid to late 2010’s. With each mini meltdown Leadership continued to ignore the pleas and warnings of the employees in the trenches. We were still operating with 1990’s technology. We didn’t have the tools we needed on the line to operate the sophisticated and large airline we had become. We could see that the wheels were about ready to fall off the bus. But no one in leadership would heed our pleas.
When COVID happened SWA scaled back considerably (as did all of the airlines) for about two years. This helped conceal the serious problems in technology, infrastructure and staffing that were occurring and being ignored. But as we ramped back up the lack of attention to the operation was waiting to show its ugly hGary Kelly Gary Kelly retired as CEO in early 2022. Bob Jordan was named CEO. He was a more operationally oriented leader. He replaced our Chief Operating Officer with a very smart man and they announced their priority would be to upgrade our airline’s technology and provide the frontline employees the operational tools we needed to care for our customers and employees. Finally, someone acknowledged the elephant in the room.
But two decades of neglect takes several years to overcome. And, unfortunately to our horror, our house of cards came tumbling down this week as a routine winter storm broke our 1990’s operating system.
The frontline employees were ready and on station. We were properly staffed. We were at the airports. Hell, we were ON the airplanes. But our antiquated software systems failed coupled with a decades old system of having to manage 20,000 frontline employees by phone calls. No automation had been developed to run this sophisticated machine.
We had a routine winter storm across the Midwest last Thursday. A larger than normal number flights were cancelled as a result. But what should have been one minor inconvenient day of travel turned into this nightmare. After all, American, United, Delta and the other airlines operated with only minor flight disruptions.
The two decades of neglect by SWA leadership caused the airline to lose track of all its crews. ALL of us. We were there. With our customers. At the jet. Ready to go. But there was no way to assign us. To confirm us. To release us to fly the flight. And we watched as our customers got stranded without their luggage missing their Christmas holiday.
I believe that our new CEO Bob Jordan inherited a MESS. This meltdown was not his failure but the failure of those before him. I believe he has the right priorities. But it will take time to right this ship. A few years at a minimum. Old leaders need to be replaced. Operationally oriented managers need to be brought in. I hope and pray Bob can execute on his promises to fix our once proud airline. Time will tell.
It’s been a punch in the gut for us frontline employees. We care for the traveling public. We have spent our entire careers serving you. Safely. Efficiently. With luv and pride. We are horrified. We are sorry. We are sorry for the chaos, inconvenience and frustration our airline caused you. We are angry. We are embarrassed. We are sad. Like you, the traveling public, we have been let down by our own leaders.
Herb once said the the biggest threat to Southwest Airlines will come from within. Not from other airlines. What a visionary he was. I miss Herb now more than ever.
 
Why dont you publish every single airline out there with contract negotiations that have been in progress for years on contracts that expired in the last decade. You ever been on the tip of the spear? Here is another “view” that nails it.




What happened to Southwest Airlines?

I believe that our new CEO Bob Jordan inherited a MESS. This meltdown was not his failure but the failure of those before him. I believe he has the right priorities.

Bob Jordan should not get a pass on this mess. He was on the vanguard of marketing priorities that outran operational capabilities -- both business processes and technology infrastructure.
 

NewFrogFan

Full Member
Yeah, I know pilots don't set fares. (I did a consulting project for Northwest Airlines a few years ago. Their crew schedulers referred to pilots as "bus drivers", believe it or not.) And yes, there were connecting flights available for my friend. Fares over ORD at that time were in the $2,500 range.

My only point was that AA, or any other airline, was not going to "come to the rescue" out of the goodness of their hearts. They're in business to make money, and they will charge whatever the market will bear -- and I don't have a problem with that. If you, as a passenger, are looking forward to AA stepping in to offer services, be prepared to pay dearly for it.
Just like the internet consumer is 100% responsible for airlines like Spirit that would eagerly charge for a gulp of air if they could figure out how.

I came into the industry just after dereg started but I still saw the last vestiges of very classy service. AA 747 that flew NRT were all/most FC seats.

As for crew schedulers at many airlines, you can’t expect much from min wage types that take those jobs, so there is that. Contracts to them are for reading “pleasure” only.
 
I worked at SWA in technology from 2000 - 2003. This pilot's account is dead on. Kelly fired the CIO because he thought technology was spending too much $$$. It came home to bite them in the rear this week. I'm not sure Jordan can fix this.
A lot happened in SWA technology after 2003. You do recall Bob Jordan was in charge of Technology while the Feld Group was in place, right? A lot of money was spent on technology upgrades after 2003.
 

Double D

Tier 1
Ya the joke in technology was that it was 'the FAILED Group'. They were more like the consultants in Office Space 'The BOBs' that were there to 'clean up' things. Evidently, they didn't spend enough on technology after 2003 given the recent meltdown.

rights saudi GIF

A lot happened in SWA technology after 2003. You do recall Bob Jordan was in charge of Technology while the Feld Group was in place, right? A lot of money was spent on technology upgrades after 2003.
 
So far has anyone trying to make to Phx through Love been stranded? News is making a lot of noise locally about this and TCU fans not being able to make it but I don't know of anyone personally inconvenienced. I think the media would love for thousands of fans to not make the game so they have a story but I don't see it happening.

Flight leaves love tomorrow at 1:55 and connects through Denver. Going to get there early in the AM To see if there's any chance of getting on standby for one of the earlier directs.
 
As for crew schedulers at many airlines, you can’t expect much from min wage types that take those jobs, so there is that. Contracts to them are for reading “pleasure” only.
You missed my point. Pilots are responsible for flying the airplanes, and that's it. That gives them a certain perspective. The bus driver analogy is humorous (to me), but it's largely correct. You said it yourself in an earlier post.
 
Ya the joke in technology was that it was 'the FAILED Group'. They were more like the consultants in Office Space 'The BOBs' that were there to 'clean up' things. Evidently, they didn't spend enough on technology after 2003 given the recent meltdown.

rights saudi GIF
Gary was in charge when Feld was brought in (for the first of two engagements). A large amount of money was allocated to Technology during that time, so Gary was not afraid to spend on Technology as you implied in your earlier post.

I spent a fair bit of time at SWA myself, and I'm no apologist for them. Quite the contrary.

I believe the problem with SWA is they lurched ahead with significant changes to their business model, under Bob's leadership, and failed to understand the operational consequences of doing so. Those consequences have just come to a head.

I was invited to "retire" when I pointed a few things out...
 

Double D

Tier 1
They spent the money on the FELD group, not technology. Kelly thought Ross (former CIO) was spending too much money so FELD Group was brought in ('the BOBs') and the interim CIO from Frito Lay that used way too much hair spray. FELD group moved people around, put folks in jobs they knew they couldn't do. What happened next? People quit, people were let go (YES! SWA does lay people off). FELD group only accomplishment was to reduce headcount in technology.

Bob Jordan was lost. I have no idea how he became CEO.
Gary was in charge when Feld was brought in (for the first of two engagements). A large amount of money was allocated to Technology during that time, so Gary was not afraid to spend on Technology as you implied in your earlier post.

I spent a fair bit of time at SWA myself, and I'm no apologist for them. Quite the contrary.

I believe the problem with SWA is they lurched ahead with significant changes to their business model, under Bob's leadership, and failed to understand the operational consequences of doing so. Those consequences have just come to a head.

I was invited to "retire" when I pointed a few things out...
 

allclearforfrogs

Active Member
So far has anyone trying to make to Phx through Love been stranded? News is making a lot of noise locally about this and TCU fans not being able to make it but I don't know of anyone personally inconvenienced. I think the media would love for thousands of fans to not make the game so they have a story but I don't see it happening.

Flight leaves love tomorrow at 1:55 and connects through Denver. Going to get there early in the AM To see if there's any chance of getting on standby for one of the earlier directs.
You don't know anyone inconvenienced because DAL-PHX on SWA has been largely unaffected by the cancelations. I'm sticking with my plan.
 
They spent the money on the FELD group, not technology. Kelly thought Ross (former CIO) was spending too much money so FELD Group was brought in ('the BOBs') and the interim CIO from Frito Lay that used way too much hair spray. FELD group moved people around, put folks in jobs they knew they couldn't do. What happened next? People quit, people were let go (YES! SWA does lay people off). FELD group only accomplishment was to reduce headcount in technology.

Bob Jordan was lost. I have no idea how he became CEO.
It is, perhaps, interesting, and ironic, to note that a significant amount of money was spent upgrading the crew scheduling system during what I'll call Feld Group I. Those upgrades did not envision the dramatic changes in the business model that were coming in the 2010 timeframe and thus the crew scheduling system was inadequate to deal with those changes even after the previous upgrades.

Nothing significant was done to any operational system to adapt to those huge business process changes.

Bob was the wrong choice for CEO. I don't think he'll survive this mess.
 

JogginFrog

Active Member
Why dont you publish every single airline out there with contract negotiations that have been in progress for years on contracts that expired in the last decade. You ever been on the tip of the spear?
I'm just a customer. An occasional business and personal flyer. And I mostly fly Southwest, especially for personal travel. Was thrilled when they finally expanded to my local airport (COS) a couple of years ago. Led to reduced fares on all airlines, allowing a million-person market to avoid a 1.5-hour drive to get a reasonable fare.

I loved the Southwest model under Kelleher, and the current SWA model is worlds better than Frontier's tiresome nickel-and-dime approach to value-oriented travel. I'll gladly resume flying SWA when it gets through the crisis. I just don't want to hear pilots--for SWA or others--pointing fingers when they have inconvenienced customers as part of their labor negotiating strategy. That's a choice, just like management's choice not to replace scheduling software. You make choices, you live with consequences. I just don't think pilots should position themselves as the champion of the consumer when they occasionally use consumers for personal advantage.
 
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