Per NBC DFW: A "mass casualty incident" on Interstate 35W just north of downtown Fort Worth,

[BrewingFrog]

Something I don't get, is why these overpasses built in places known to freeze, are not constructed with heating elements embedded in the concrete. It's not like it isn't known how to do it, or fantastically complicated.

Another thing: I read upthread that some of the lanes were treated with spray, and some weren't. The reason being that some of the lanes are managed by differing entities. Nice job on the bureaucratic turf, there, guys... Given this tidbit, and the fact that the company responsible is foreign, I imagine the slip-and-fall lawyers are going to carve them into tiny little screaming gobbets of singed flesh over the next ten years or so of endless litigation. If the Cintra people were smart, they'd clean out their accounts, fire up the Gulfstream, and flee back to Madrid.

 

[Hoosierfrog]

Liked for Mississippi of the Midwest. Funny. I've been to Indiana and to Mississippi. Indiana is nice, very nice out in the country and I've known some good people from Indiana. My old TCU roommate was from West Lafayette. Mississippi gets a very unfair stereotype from the past. It is a beautiful state and great folks, plus it's in Dixie.

The Ole Miss people at the Peach Bowl were pretty nice, but only got to talk to them for a half, since they were all leaving by halftime for some reason...

That’s what the surrounding states call Indiana, even though there isn’t an iota of difference for the most part.

And you are not allowed to say Dixie anymore, so I’ve heard...

 

[Hoosierfrog]

Something I don't get, is why these overpasses built in places known to freeze, are not constructed with heating elements embedded in the concrete. It's not like it isn't known how to do it, or fantastically complicated.

Another thing: I read upthread that some of the lanes were treated with spray, and some weren't. The reason being that some of the lanes are managed by differing entities. Nice job on the bureaucratic turf, there, guys... Given this tidbit, and the fact that the company responsible is foreign, I imagine the slip-and-fall lawyers are going to carve them into tiny little screaming gobbets of singed flesh over the next ten years or so of endless litigation. If the Cintra people were smart, they'd clean out their accounts, fire up the Gulfstream, and flee back to Madrid.

The reason, I’m told, is that heating it causes the rebar to corrode, which weakens the concrete, especially if salt is applied.

 

[Hoosierfrog]

Texas drivers are awful even in good weather! I spent about 4.5 years working as a chauffeur in North Texas and I saw some stupid, dangerous, idiotic stuff during that time.

I used to think so too until I moved here. Stop signs and red lights seem to be merely a suggestion here and right turn on red after stopping apparently means slow down enough so at least most of the tires are still in contact with terra firma...

 

[BrewingFrog]

The reason, I’m told, is that heating it causes the rebar to corrode, which weakens the concrete, especially if salt is applied.

Admittedly, my experience with this is some years old, but in the application I was utilizing we had installed essentially a wire with a thickly insulated coating just under the surface of the concrete in a freezer threshhold.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Further, I don't see how the interior rebar would corrode any faster than normal due to tiny increases in temperature. Additionally, if there is heating in the pavement, there's no reason to spray it with salt.

Of course, such elements do little when there's a massive and area-wide freezing event like the one happening over the next few days. When you're looking at Zero for your low, with brisk winds howling out of the north, there's not a damned thing you can do about the roads but stay off them.

 

[Hoosierfrog]

Further, I don't see how the interior rebar would corrode any faster than normal due to tiny increases in temperature. Additionally, if there is heating in the pavement, there's no reason to spray it with salt.

Of course, such elements do little when there's a massive and area-wide freezing event like the one happening over the next few days. When you're looking at Zero for your low, with brisk winds howling out of the north, there's not a damned thing you can do about the roads but stay off them.

Technology may be a lot better, but I recall reading Connecticut had problems doing this in the 80s. Now, it’s probably a cost thing.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Technology may be a lot better, but I recall reading Connecticut had problems doing this in the 80s. Now, it’s probably a cost thing.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the dumber an idea it is. Outside of a specific small range of temperatures, like maybe 4 days out of the year, it would serve no purpose. Add to that the bludgeoning boundless bureaucracy endemic to any such change in the Accepted Way of Doing Things, and it would not happen before we have flying cars...

 

[Brog]

I used to think so too until I moved here. Stop sign and red lights seem to be merely a suggestion here and right turn on red after stopping apparently means slow down enough so at least most of the tires are still in contact with terra firma...

I've lived in Massachusetts, Oklahoma, Missouri and colorado, and if anybody thinks Texas drivers are insane, you ought to live for a while in those states. I don't think state lines have anything to do with driver insanity.

 

[YA]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the dumber an idea it is. Outside of a specific small range of temperatures, like maybe 4 days out of the year, it would serve no purpose. Add to that the bludgeoning boundless bureaucracy endemic to any such change in the Accepted Way of Doing Things, and it would not happen before we have flying cars...

Life-Cycle cost-benefit analysis of Bridge deck de-icing using geothermal heat pump system: A case study of North Texas
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2210670718325824

 

[BrewingFrog]

Life-Cycle cost-benefit analysis of Bridge deck de-icing using geothermal heat pump system: A case study of North Texas
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2210670718325824

Based on the abstract, (Heh, Longhorns...) such a thing is essentially the reverse of what they do in Alaska: Permafrost for cooling in the Summer via circulation pumps. Also helps with foundation stability in the winter.

I would figure it to be do-able, but would require plenty of advanced planning. Water (or saline for better heat retention) pumped through a matrix of pipes above and below the ground would give (IIRC) 58 degree fluid moving through the bridge structure. Likely sufficient to prevent freezing except in the very worst of cases.

It does provide a solution to the bridge issue, with a few more things thrown in, but it still doesn't fix the issue with, say, Monday's weather. If it is 0 degrees, the actual road itself is hard frozen. While the bridges would be passable, the rest would be suitable only for ice skating. Of course, that is a rarity (Every couple of years?), but then so are bridges freezing over.

Yet, the study, discussion, debate, design, and eventual implementation would put us into Flying Car territory.

 

[geezer]

I've lived in Massachusetts, Oklahoma, Missouri and colorado, and if anybody thinks Texas drivers are insane, you ought to live for a while in those states. I don't think state lines have anything to do with driver insanity.

Texas drivers drive faster.

Oklahoma has zero vehicle inspection requirements; they tend to drive slower because their hoopties aren't able to go faster.

 

[PurplFrawg]

I guess there's no time like the present but if this doesn't start the process of overhauling our toll system then nothing will.

Actually, there is a lady named Terri Hall in San Antonio who has been fighting this battle for several years and is well known in the Capitol chambers for her concern and advocation for free highways as well as the problems of foreign ownership. Her group is called https://www.texasturf.org/ She was the one who was responsible for preventing them from returning I-30 (The D/FW Turnpike) back into a toll road in the last session of legislature. Someone mentioned gasoline taxes should be raised to fix roads...she will point out that over the years, legislators have quietly shifted about 25% of the gas tax revenues over to public education coffers, but won't shift it back, cause no one wants to be responsible for taking away money from education. She is quite a remarkable woman.

 

[Eight]

legislature better come up with a new way to fund the roads because i have been told by on high that in the very near future we will all be driving electric cars and the only use of gas will be for lawn movers until we all switch to goats and other small livestock

 

[Volare]

Texas drivers drive faster.

Oklahoma has zero vehicle inspection requirements; they tend to drive slower because their hoopties aren't able to go faster.

I'm all for making fun of Oklahoma, but realize there is more vehicle capacity on I-35 in Norman than there is in Fort Worth.

 

[BABYFACE]

My neighbor was in the pileup. Car was totaled but he’s fine.

A good friend of mine knew someone that was killed in that wreck. The guy was only 45 years old.

 

[Sweat Equity]

legislature better come up with a new way to fund the roads because i have been told by on high that in the very near future we will all be driving electric cars and the only use of gas will be for lawn movers until we all switch to goats and other small livestock

The cray of it all: Elon said yesterday: "Yeah, if those were Tesla cars or Tesla Semis there would not be a dent in a single vehicle." I actually believe him when you take account of the physics he explains (Tesla has a computing power of over 10,000x a human and can over or under compensate accordingly) but....I still love me a gas lawn mower.

 

[BABYFACE]

Insane. Shouldn’t allow semis in toll lanes.

Absolutely!

 

[BrewingFrog]

The cray of it all: Elon said yesterday: "Yeah, if those were Tesla cars or Tesla Semis there would not be a dent in a single vehicle." I actually believe him when you take account of the physics he explains (Tesla has a computing power of over 10,000x a human and can over or under compensate accordingly) but....I still love me a gas lawn mower.

While I admire the hell out of that guy, the quote is absurd. The reason for the pileup had a helluva lot more to do with lousy design, complete lack of distance visibility for braking (blind corner), and exceptionally unusual conditions than it did with driver inattention or stupidity. None of the innovations of Tesla cars would counteract a single one of these issues, and they'd have wound up in the pile with all the rest.

About the only thing that would have helped would be some type of interconnection network between all the cars on the road, which we do not have now, nor will we have in the foreseeable future.

So, shut up, Elon. And hurry up and open your bar in Boca Chica. I'm thirsty.

 

[Eight]

The cray of it all: Elon said yesterday: "Yeah, if those were Tesla cars or Tesla Semis there would not be a dent in a single vehicle." I actually believe him when you take account of the physics he explains (Tesla has a computing power of over 10,000x a human and can over or under compensate accordingly) but....I still love me a gas lawn mower.

obviously elon has never been to the body just south of the woodlands on the east side of 45.

more than a single dent in a single tesla and the shop manager hates telsa because they can't get body panels from tesla.