OT: HB447 Texas Legalization

[Pharm Frog]

When I had shoulder surgery they gave me oxy. It made me sick to my stomach. So they gave me a pill for that. It also caused insomnia. So they gave me a pill for that. It also constipates. More medicine. I realized then and there that the pain was better than the pain meds.

What you are describing is the efficacy-limiting side effects of narcotic analgesics. It’s been almost 20 years now but UTSW researchers studied pre/peri/post operative use of platelet-sparing NSAIDs against narcotic analgesics. The NSAID regimen beat the narcotics in almost every endpoint (stat sig) and one of the reasons advanced was because of dose-limiting side-effects of the narcotics.

 

[nwlafrog]

Technically if one wanted to consume THC *legally* there’s some loopholes in legislation. You can buy delta 8 THC online (for the time being) and have it shipped. That’s not to say that you can’t wind up on the wrong side of the law and have a difficult time explaining your purchase. Delta 9 THC is illegal and is more psychoactive than Delta 8 THC.

 

[Peacefrog]

What you are describing is the efficacy-limiting side effects of narcotic analgesics. It’s been almost 20 years now but UTSW researchers studied pre/peri/post operative use of platelet-sparing NSAIDs against narcotic analgesics. The NSAID regimen beat the narcotics in almost every endpoint (stat sig) and one of the reasons advanced was because of dose-limiting side-effects of the narcotics.

I know some of those words.

 

[BrewingFrog]

Yes but have you been sailing?

Not for a very long time, sadly...

 

[BrewingFrog]

FWIW-I worked in commercial sales at PFE during the Viagra branded life cycle. (And yes, I’ve seen the movie).

"The movie."

Many, many years ago, I used to regularly visit a sushi joint off Kirby just south of Richmond. It was a pretty good spot, and had a semi-regular crowd. Two of the guys who were regulars were plastic surgeons that did boob jobs. Evidently, they made a ton of money doing it, as they drove extra snazzy Italian sportscars (like a lovely purple Lambo!) and wore snazzy duds. One evening they were really laughing it up: "They're making a movie out of us!"

It was called Breast Men.

 

[tcudoc]

This ^^^ scares the hell out of me. It's why I have only, and will only smoke the devil's lettuce. Yet alcohol can be just as addictive as these substances. Knowing that not everyone can handle drugs and alcohol the same way, makes me nervous for legalization, but at the same time we are all consenting adults. We have seen the effects of alcohol abuse for centuries now, it's never easy on families and friends, would the same become true if we legalized other drugs? The good news, no one has ever died from pot overdose, so decriminalizing cannabis seems like a safe step.

Alcohol abuse takes decades, typically, to destroy a life. The drugs I mention take a few months at most.
You can see pretty high functioning alcoholics that are pretty normal citizens to the casual observer. It’s not very often that you see high functioning meth or heroin addicts. I’ve seen fairly high functioning IV fentanyl abusers, but it does not last very long.

To me, the big difference between alcohol or THC users and the heroin/fentanyl/meth crowd is that the overall timeline is condensed from decades to months.

The thing I worry about with THC in the young crowd is apathy. You don’t see a lot of young people who are regularly using THC who are, at the same time, real go getters in their studies or seeking good career choices. They mostly sit around and get high and play video games. There are exceptions, but a lot of them, when they get preoccupied at a young age by THC, end up in low paying jobs, poorly educated, and dependent on others to take care of them.

I think that the chances of ending up like that are less if they were to wait until about age 25 or 30 to start. I have not researched that data to see if it’s really true, it just seems true to me.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I guess Oscar Wilde was wrong after all...

Some friends have been prescribed Oxycontin/Oxycodone for back surgery recovery or knee surgery recovery. A few of them found themselves addicted. This was a shock to me, as I knew these people to be good eggs and not into "drugs" in the manner commonly held. Yet, addicted they were. One sought treatment, and the others went cold turkey. Nobody stayed on them after the initial discovery. In that way, they were lucky. After the revelations, anecdotal stories came out like you spoke of above, of losing careers, families, death. Sobering, to say the least...

After a gall-bladder removal a few years ago, some time after the earlier revelations, I was prescribed Oxy for the recovery process. I looked at that bottle like it was a snake and didn't take a single one.

I’m starting to realize that people really do just react way differently to the things that get put into their body.

I was taking 4 Hydrocodone a day for about 8 months to help with the nerve pain associated with the neuropathy in my legs and feet. Then when I went into the hospital for the transplant, they had to switch me to Oxy because Hydrocodone didn’t mesh with something they were giving me while I was in there. Neither of those meds gave me any kind of positive sensation, nor was there anything about them that was potentially addictive to me. They both just helped make my nerve pain bearable and that was it.

I’ve gotten to where I don’t need them, so I just quit taking them and never looked back. Point being... no one who had the reaction that I had to those pills would become addicted to them. There was nothing to get addicted to.

I guess it’s just like how certain people are shippy drunks and others are happy-go-lucky drunks. I’m sure some of it has to do with the “type” of person they are, but the chemicals must just react different in different people based on their biology. It’s kind of a luck of the draw type of deal.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Actually, they were thrown out when we moved. My Black Market connections are pretty feeble...

One of the common side-effects (I am given to understand) to the damned things is constipation. In addition to the possibility of addiction, the last thing I wanted was to be all stopped up. No sir-ee.

Yeah, I was taking those Hydrocodone every day that constipate you and then there were about 13 other cancer treatments/medications I was taking that the #1 side effect listed was diarrhea.

I was walking an anal tightrope there for a few months.... fun times

 

[Pharm Frog]

I’m starting to realize that people really do just react way differently to the things that get put into their body.

I was taking 4 Hydrocodone a day for about 8 months to help with the nerve pain associated with the neuropathy in my legs and feet. Then when I went into the hospital for the transplant, they had to switch me to Oxy because Hydrocodone didn’t mesh with something they were giving me while I was in there. Neither of those meds gave me any kind of positive sensation, nor was there anything about them that was potentially addictive to me. They both just helped make my nerve pain bearable and that was it.

I’ve gotten to where I don’t need them, so I just quit taking them and never looked back. Point being... no one who had the reaction that I had to those pills would become addicted to them. There was nothing to get addicted to.

I guess it’s just like how certain people are shippy drunks and others are happy-go-lucky drunks. I’m sure some of it has to do with the “type” of person they are, but the chemicals must just react different in different people based on their biology. It’s kind of a lick of the draw type of deal.

There’s a growing body of literature examining the “liking effect” and the “euphoric effect” and the ranges are wide. One of the main problems with some addiction studies is that they have generally focused research on addicts (including other addictions) and paid less attention to those who take opioids and have no or low liking sensations. This has kinda slanted literature in one direction IMO. There is zero doubt that persons experience profound differences in their responses to opioids.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

There’s a growing body of literature examining the “liking effect” and the “euphoric effect” and the ranges are wide. One of the main problems with some addiction studies is that they have generally focused research on addicts (including other addictions) and paid less attention to those who take opioids and have no or low liking sensations. This has kinda slanted literature in one direction IMO. There is zero doubt that persons experience profound differences in their responses to opioids.

Hydrocodone doesn’t do anything for me. Got a few scrips for it following my first couple of kidney stones, but eventually just told my doc not to bother. Rather take Advil.

 

[Horny4TCU]

Yeah, I was taking those Hydrocodone every day that constipate you and then there were about 13 other cancer treatments/medications I was taking that the #1 side effect listed was diarrhea.

I was walking an anal tightrope there for a few months.... fun times

The moral of the story... Never trust a fart.

 

[Pharm Frog]

Hydrocodone doesn’t do anything for me. Got a few scrips for it following my first couple of kidney stones, but eventually just told my doc not to bother. Rather take Advil.

You have bad mu. Just kidding.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

You have bad mu. Just kidding.

That’s ok. I have no idea what it means anyway.

 

[tcudoc]

You have bad mu. Just kidding.

I get the joke. I suspect I will be one of the few...
The only thing worse than dad jokes are pharmacology dad jokes...they are bitter pills to swallow.

 

[tcudoc]

Alcohol abuse takes decades, typically, to destroy a life. The drugs I mention take a few months at most.
You can see pretty high functioning alcoholics that are pretty normal citizens to the casual observer. It’s not very often that you see high functioning meth or heroin addicts. I’ve seen fairly high functioning IV fentanyl abusers, but it does not last very long.

To me, the big difference between alcohol or THC users and the heroin/fentanyl/meth crowd is that the overall timeline is condensed from decades to months.

The thing I worry about with THC in the young crowd is apathy. You don’t see a lot of young people who are regularly using THC who are, at the same time, real go getters in their studies or seeking good career choices. They mostly sit around and get high and play video games. There are exceptions, but a lot of them, when they get preoccupied at a young age by THC, end up in low paying jobs, poorly educated, and dependent on others to take care of them.

I think that the chances of ending up like that are less if they were to wait until about age 25 or 30 to start. I have not researched that data to see if it’s really true, it just seems true to me.

Weird. I just got this in the email chain where I got the graph. They shared an article on the topic. I have copied the Conclusion section below. The main point is:

Daily cannabis use during adolescence is associated with cannabis dependence and poor cognitive function, which may affect educational attainment and occupational choice.

Daily use of highly potent cannabis is associated with more severe psychological symptoms, such as psychoses, mania, and suicidality.

 

[Hoosierfrog]

Weird. I just got this in the email chain where I got the graph. They shared an article on the topic. I have copied the Conclusion section below. The main point is:

Daily cannabis use during adolescence is associated with cannabis dependence and poor cognitive function, which may affect educational attainment and occupational choice.

Daily use of highly potent cannabis is associated with more severe psychological symptoms, such as psychoses, mania, and suicidality.


View attachment 8529

Helloooo...



We’ve all known this guy.



...proof positive.

 

[Horny4TCU]

Weird. I just got this in the email chain where I got the graph. They shared an article on the topic. I have copied the Conclusion section below. The main point is:

Daily cannabis use during adolescence is associated with cannabis dependence and poor cognitive function, which may affect educational attainment and occupational choice.

Daily use of highly potent cannabis is associated with more severe psychological symptoms, such as psychoses, mania, and suicidality.


View attachment 8529

I don't think anyone would deny underage use of cannabis is a bad idea. There should definitely be an age requirement, just like we have with Alcohol. The link to schizophrenia and cannabis use for people under the age of 18 is something that can't be ignored. I'd be interested to see if Colorado or California have seen an increase in underage cannabis consumption. There is also the link to reducing the desire to do it, once it is made legal/less taboo.

 

[Horny4TCU]

Well, it looks like the votes are in... 75 in favor vs 13 not in favor.

So, when are we having Kfc Tokers Party?

 

[satis1103]

Well, it looks like the votes are in... 75 in favor vs 13 not in favor.

So, when are we having Kfc Tokers Party?

You got me all worked up thinking this was a legislative vote...

 

[Eight]

Well, it looks like the votes are in... 75 in favor vs 13 not in favor.

So, when are we having Kfc Tokers Party?

what about the mail in ballots?