I Hate the BE BB Schools

[fanatical frog]

Agreed. The bb schools have their head stuck up their ... The thing is the bb only schools can bring a ton of value but only in combination with strong football. The Big East network could very well be the top grossing conference TV network because of the content that the talked about 20/12 superconference could provide. Everything breaks down nicely into two divisions. Adding Ku/K st/Mizzou along with TCU gives basketball and football east/west splits that would keep most traditional rivalries and minimize the geographic concerns.

At the end of the day if the BE leadership can't see this then they aren't are committed to sucess as we are and it wouldn't be a good match. Give this some time to play out... I don't think it's over yet. Louisville and WVU AD's in particular seem to grasp the big picture and this issue could be the one that makes them draw a line in the sand.

'Fraid so. The Big East ship is taking on water and we'd be unwise to jump onto any leaking vessel if the Captain isn't aware of or covinced of the need for repairs.

In yesterday's Star Telegram a quote from an article "TCU closes gap on top two teams"....says.....quoting directly, "ACC, Big East are automatic jokes". I'm afraid the Big East leaders can't see themselves as they are seen throughout the country. I'm afraid they have a gaping wound and need major surgery but they think they have just a nick and they're shopping for band aids.

The Big East can not only survive, they have a window of opportunity to also prosper. The east / west divisions you mentioned allows the BE to retain the best of what they have (existing rivalries, similar travel, etc) while adding storm protection and stability. If they can't pry the Kansas schools loose from B12 then see if Boise State; Air Force and Brigham Young "would go for it" along with TCU. Those schools require only minimal additional travel compared to the B12 schools.

 

[ZeeFrog]

so what would you say if, the b.e. and MWC got
together? you knows BigEast/BigWest. two divisions
and championship game and bc$ birth?

think of the tv, the marketing, the the bigness!

*bb schools gotta go, leave, vamoose.

 

[HG73]

so what would you say if, the b.e. and MWC got
together? you knows BigEast/BigWest. two divisions
and championship game and bc$ birth?

think of the tv, the marketing, the the bigness!

*bb schools gotta go, leave, vamoose.

Too big, too much MWC dead weight. Just my opinion. Try this: Add TCU, Navy, AF, and Army. Army is getting competitive again, service academies have national appeal, TV would love it and it gives the Big East a western wing for central and mountain TV.

Better solution is add TCU, wait for Nova to decline and the big12 to implode when UT goes independent and a$m goes SEC. Then scoop up the best of the b12 leftovers.

 

[PurplePutt]

That's not a good idea. That would achieve one of two things: either the Irish would join the Big Ten, instigating football Armageddon. Or they would just send their other sports off with the remaining Catholic non-FB schools to a new league.

I doubt it. but...maybe football armageddon is a good idea. Would be a hell of a lot better than all the uncertainty. If ND did go to the Big 10 they might grab one more from BE or Mizzou. If it was Mizzou, maybe that causes Bevo 10 to collapse and BE can get KU and KSU.

Be bold and do what you have to do to survive. Screw ND! Really don't care about them. Not sure anyone does anymore!

 

[fanatical frog]

so what would you say if, the b.e. and MWC got
together? you knows BigEast/BigWest. two divisions
and championship game and bc$ birth?

think of the tv, the marketing, the the bigness!

*bb schools gotta go, leave, vamoose.

Or......BE could cherry pick the following:
TCU
Boise State
Air Force
Nevada
Fresno State
Brigham Young
San Diego State
Houston
Southern Miss

This would be a self contained western division. No east/west crossover games , only a conference championship game at the end of the season. Big East gets to keep their rivalries and travel costs remain the same. BasketBall schedules wouldn't have to change for the BE and we have a better baseball conference with the addition of Southern Miss and Houston.

 

[mtmedlin]

1. Many things being posted have been looked into. Army and Navy is a not go. We looked at them a few years back. Similar to Notre Dame they like their independence. The
2. Big 12 thing wont happen until we get our network setup.
3. Dont listen to anything the basketball schools say. Their pissed cause with the addition of TCU, they no longer control the vote.
4. We dont want to kick Notre Dame out. When we negotiate our contract, ND adds value, even if we dont have their football. Even if the Basketball and football schools break away, we will probably ask a few basketball teams to stay on as BB only. Notre Dame and Georgetown would be two....they ADD value.
5. There will be no offer till after the season. DO YOU HONESTLY think the BE wants to stir the pot at all while TCU is in the hunt for a National Championship? Really? No invite will be issued until afterwards and no announcement will come till January. Think practical here. Why would we do anything to mess this up?
6. Dont listen to anybody who says that TCU isnt in negotiations and is not the top target. TCU is the ONLY target. There is NO other team available that helps secure the AQ. NOBODY. TCU will be invited and if you refuse to take a football only, then a full invite will be issued.

I can say this, your AD has been contacted by the BE and initial talks have happened. In fact, the initial talks happened this summer when the whole conference realignment was going on. I know I have no credibility or proof. How I know is through a family friend who is alumni and major donor to Notre Dame. He has a few friends at providence. Much of the speculation that is going around on the internet is not true at all. The crap about UCF isnt true either. The two teams being looked at are Nova (who has the right to move up) and TCU. The basketball schools want Nova only. The football schools want TCU. The Compromise was both. Plain and simple. IF Nova says no, I am not certain what happens. Either way. I have a good feeling that Nova, once hooked on the football money, will vote with football and basketball will lose the control fo the vote. In teh future, football will be able to do what they want. IF the B12 implodes, then I see the BE being drmatically different in the next 5 years.

 

[FeistyFrog]

That's not a good idea. That would achieve one of two things: either the Irish would join the Big Ten, instigating football Armageddon. Or they would just send their other sports off with the remaining Catholic non-FB schools to a new league.

In terms of institutional commitments, ND is a de facto football school. You can bet your rear ed that ND's admin wants to see BE football survive at any cost except actually putting their team in the league. If the 8 football members split they should take ND with them. Say what you will about ND, but the school has cache. Keeping them as a BB member allows Big East schools to occasionally play them in non-conference football games. If we joined a 9 or 10 team football Big East Part II which included ND as its only non-FB member, the Frogs might get ND to come to Jerry World sometime. That would be pretty cool.

ND could either go to the Big Ten or the Big East, hummmm.

 

[Genbukan]

1. Many things being posted have been looked into. Army and Navy is a not go. We looked at them a few years back. Similar to Notre Dame they like their independence. The
2. Big 12 thing wont happen until we get our network setup.
3. Dont listen to anything the basketball schools say. Their pissed cause with the addition of TCU, they no longer control the vote.
4. We dont want to kick Notre Dame out. When we negotiate our contract, ND adds value, even if we dont have their football. Even if the Basketball and football schools break away, we will probably ask a few basketball teams to stay on as BB only. Notre Dame and Georgetown would be two....they ADD value.
5. There will be no offer till after the season. DO YOU HONESTLY think the BE wants to stir the pot at all while TCU is in the hunt for a National Championship? Really? No invite will be issued until afterwards and no announcement will come till January. Think practical here. Why would we do anything to mess this up?
6. Dont listen to anybody who says that TCU isnt in negotiations and is not the top target. TCU is the ONLY target. There is NO other team available that helps secure the AQ. NOBODY. TCU will be invited and if you refuse to take a football only, then a full invite will be issued.

I can say this, your AD has been contacted by the BE and initial talks have happened. In fact, the initial talks happened this summer when the whole conference realignment was going on. I know I have no credibility or proof. How I know is through a family friend who is alumni and major donor to Notre Dame. He has a few friends at providence. Much of the speculation that is going around on the internet is not true at all. The crap about UCF isnt true either. The two teams being looked at are Nova (who has the right to move up) and TCU. The basketball schools want Nova only. The football schools want TCU. The Compromise was both. Plain and simple. IF Nova says no, I am not certain what happens. Either way. I have a good feeling that Nova, once hooked on the football money, will vote with football and basketball will lose the control fo the vote. In teh future, football will be able to do what they want. IF the B12 implodes, then I see the BE being drmatically different in the next 5 years.

That makes sense. Stay at 10 (or nine if Nova declines) and wait. The longwhorn conference is on life support - the recent TV deal UT signed is salt on the wound for all of the other schools. Two years from now KU, K State, maybe mizzou look at the big east as 1) a basketball upgrade, 2) a financial package that is at a minimum equivalent to what the bottom 3/4's of the Longwhorn conference gets, and 3) a chance to be a full, contributing member of a conference of equals - not a follower of the almighty steer!

Big East Network will be BIG.

 

[mtmedlin]

That's not a good idea. That would achieve one of two things: either the Irish would join the Big Ten, instigating football Armageddon. Or they would just send their other sports off with the remaining Catholic non-FB schools to a new league.

I doubt it. but...maybe football armageddon is a good idea. Would be a hell of a lot better than all the uncertainty. If ND did go to the Big 10 they might grab one more from BE or Mizzou. If it was Mizzou, maybe that causes Bevo 10 to collapse and BE can get KU and KSU.

Be bold and do what you have to do to survive. Screw ND! Really don't care about them. Not sure anyone does anymore!

Your also forgetting that their are teams in the ACC that the Big 10 is interested in. Marylands new AD wants the B10 badly. They are an AAU school and are in a huge market. Also, Penn St has been pushing for a more Eastern feel to the League.


Its all about timeing, which is also about money. IF the BE gets stronger now with the addition of TCU, AND they can avoid being raided till our new contract is bein negotiated OR the network is up and running, then we will be in fantastic shape. If either the contract or network pays out what is estimated, then we will make more then the ACC. This means we can raid, instead of being raided. It also means we can offer as much or money then what the bottom five of the B12 is making.

another options is, If Texas does make a move (and I assume Tech, Ok and Ok St. will go with them) then the BE football teams could split from the basketball schools and we could merge. Take the remaining 6 B12 teams, Add tcu and Lousiville for an Western division. The other 8 BE make the Eastern division.

There are so many possible outcomes but the best ones all are based on the BE getting their network or contract done before any other major expansion. As far as TCU is concerend you could end up in a very strong coference but there is a chance we may have to rebuild again.

 

[HG73]

1. Many things being posted have been looked into. Army and Navy is a not go. We looked at them a few years back. Similar to Notre Dame they like their independence. The
2. Big 12 thing wont happen until we get our network setup.
3. Dont listen to anything the basketball schools say. Their pissed cause with the addition of TCU, they no longer control the vote.
4. We dont want to kick Notre Dame out. When we negotiate our contract, ND adds value, even if we dont have their football. Even if the Basketball and football schools break away, we will probably ask a few basketball teams to stay on as BB only. Notre Dame and Georgetown would be two....they ADD value.
5. There will be no offer till after the season. DO YOU HONESTLY think the BE wants to stir the pot at all while TCU is in the hunt for a National Championship? Really? No invite will be issued until afterwards and no announcement will come till January. Think practical here. Why would we do anything to mess this up?
6. Dont listen to anybody who says that TCU isnt in negotiations and is not the top target. TCU is the ONLY target. There is NO other team available that helps secure the AQ. NOBODY. TCU will be invited and if you refuse to take a football only, then a full invite will be issued.

I can say this, your AD has been contacted by the BE and initial talks have happened. In fact, the initial talks happened this summer when the whole conference realignment was going on. I know I have no credibility or proof. How I know is through a family friend who is alumni and major donor to Notre Dame. He has a few friends at providence. Much of the speculation that is going around on the internet is not true at all. The crap about UCF isnt true either. The two teams being looked at are Nova (who has the right to move up) and TCU. The basketball schools want Nova only. The football schools want TCU. The Compromise was both. Plain and simple. IF Nova says no, I am not certain what happens. Either way. I have a good feeling that Nova, once hooked on the football money, will vote with football and basketball will lose the control fo the vote. In teh future, football will be able to do what they want. IF the B12 implodes, then I see the BE being drmatically different in the next 5 years.

You make a lot of sense mtmedlin. I really hope you are right. The negotiations last summer fit with our stadium fundraising. I always thought there was some kind of catalyst to finish raising all that money in this crappy economy. Like I've always said, Big Ed Bookman doesn't whip out $3mil for a new stadium to play in the MWC.

By the way, I think UT is committed to the big12 until 2014. That's when they'll go independent (with their own TV channel) and the big12 will implode. What is your honest opinion if Nova declines football membership?

 

[BABYFACE]

FB only invite will not happen, Big East might as well dispose of this idea now. IF the Big East is serious and they truly want TCU, TCU will only accept if it is for all sports. It is waste of time for both parties to discuss anything less.

 

[mtmedlin]

The only people saying anything about a football only invite is bloggers. It has never been mentioned by ANYBODY within the BE. No worries. It will be all sports.