Houston Chronicle: Texas, Oklahoma reach out to SEC about joining conference

[Chongo94]

View attachment 9262

This can’t be real….?

 

[Eight]

This can’t be real….?

jimbo would have to have written that out and handed it to someone to type it up because there is no way in hell someone listening to him talk could have transcribed all of that from him

he isn't eddie o bad, but jimbo would be a great mumble rapper

 

[LVH]

Because they haven’t had 30 million a year since southwest conference days. They would invest like crazy to stay relevant like we have.

There is no situation in which they will join a league and make 30 million a year

They also have a bad coach

 

[LVH]

Long post/update here, buckle up:


I keep reading that Big 12 administrators are “shocked” at this outcome and were totally taken off guard… Of course, this is not true and only an opportunity to try and save face.


With the benefit of hindsight, one could argue this has been predictable for quite a while.


For example, one could look back to the founding of the Big 12 minus two and the opportunity the conference had to not only add West Virginia but also add Cincinnati and Louisville which were the two best options to get back to 12 at the time. Was this a perfect plan? No, but it was better than where we ended up and would’ve resulted in a more stable conference and who knows how the last decade would’ve played out. Which two schools were most adamantly against this path? Texas and OU. And it wasn’t for money reasons, the pro rata clause in our TV contract assured that.


When expansion came up again in the past five years, there was almost unanimity around moving forward with several options that were amongst those names you’ve heard over the years. Texas and OU were most against, even though we had a pro rata clause in our television contract that would’ve meant revenue would climb almost equivalently and Texas/OU would not have been harmed. Ultimately, Texas and Oklahoma preferred to negotiate with ESPN and have the pro rata clause removed from our contract in exchange for cash. They got their wish and the Big 12 got paid north of $30 million each for three big 12 championship games in football when those were added back a few years ago, a ridiculous fee that we forced ESPN into. The rest of the conference was super frustrated when this happened, because they felt like this was their moment to cement the conferences stability and get the TV networks to play along. This was the first big sign that things were not heading in the right direction, hindsight or not.


Most recently (when this all became incredibly obvious to anyone paying attention) when the league went to negotiate and find a TV partner for its remaining three football championship games, ESPN and Fox did not want to play along at first... They did not find the same value in those games that the league did(we asked for $20mm each), but they we’re willing to consider significant rights fee increases overall if the league agreed to a new television contract, similar to the ACC’s new deal. The rates offered at the time from ESPN and Fox were actually quite strong and better than the most recent negotiations. But none of this mattered because Texas and Oklahoma made clear at the time they were not interested in extending their rights beyond 2025, and used the excuse that the changing digital environment meant that we might be leaving money on the table. Fox bowed out and we were down to one major negotiating partner.


To everyone watching, including those of us in the television industry, this was a terrible decision as the cable industry was melting down and there were only gonna be a few spots left should things continue that way, but that same cable industry is still the only place that can reasonably offer the Big 12 conference the kind of money that it would want along with the exposure and distribution that it needs. Signing up with Amazon sounds brilliant, until you realize millions less will watch your product as a result, which has a profound effect on recruiting.


I distinctly remember when the Big 12 added ESPN for the final three championship games along with the Big 12 conference network on ESPN+ that there was a significant feeling around TCU and the league that this could be the beginning of the end for the conference. We got such a small amount of money for those championship games, something around $5 million per game compared to the $20 million we had wanted, which meant that we were heading in the wrong direction. Optimism won out, but as we now know that was misguided.


Of course, the most recent effort to extend our rights led to where we are today, and the story has now been well told. Just don’t let anybody convince you this was at all surprising or unpredictable, those in the room and the industry could tell this wasn’t likely to end well given the stakes. On one hand, you can’t be too mad given how much money is at stake for Texas, OU and others, we would have said yes if invited to the SEC… but that doesn’t make this feel any better since we weren’t.


I don’t have a good feeling yet for where this is headed… the dates to watch are June 2022, June 2023, and June 2025. UT and OU would love for this to be their last year, and the league would love to hold on until June 2025 when our current deals end. For several contractual reasons, June 2023 might be the right compromise with $50-100 million being paid by TX/OU to get out. The conference could still survive intact+a few new members, believe it or not, albeit a shell of its former self. That might be the better option vs a PAC 12 exodus, but it only works if we stay together… losing WVU or KU would be that final nail for sure. Lots of conversations and analysis happening, and the TV networks play a huge role… again, things are going to move both fast and slow over the next 1-3-6-12 months.

You were on a roll until your last few sentences.

The Big 12 isn't surviving without OU and Texas. And I think Kansas is as good as gone too, WVU is more sketchy. If the league continues to exist and tries to back fill with AAC or MWC mid card acts, it will be treated as a mid major conference in terms of TV deal money, bowl tie ins, games on networks no one watches like CBS College Sports, and having to play lots of Thursday and Friday games.

 

[CountryFrog]

This can’t be real….?

You're not real, man!

 

[Moose Stuff]

He’s an absolute buffoon. I’ve never understood how he got where he is.

I was mistaken. This guy is scheissing genius.

 

[Froggish]

Long post/update here, buckle up:


I keep reading that Big 12 administrators are “shocked” at this outcome and were totally taken off guard… Of course, this is not true and only an opportunity to try and save face.


With the benefit of hindsight, one could argue this has been predictable for quite a while.


For example, one could look back to the founding of the Big 12 minus two and the opportunity the conference had to not only add West Virginia but also add Cincinnati and Louisville which were the two best options to get back to 12 at the time. Was this a perfect plan? No, but it was better than where we ended up and would’ve resulted in a more stable conference and who knows how the last decade would’ve played out. Which two schools were most adamantly against this path? Texas and OU. And it wasn’t for money reasons, the pro rata clause in our TV contract assured that.


When expansion came up again in the past five years, there was almost unanimity around moving forward with several options that were amongst those names you’ve heard over the years. Texas and OU were most against, even though we had a pro rata clause in our television contract that would’ve meant revenue would climb almost equivalently and Texas/OU would not have been harmed. Ultimately, Texas and Oklahoma preferred to negotiate with ESPN and have the pro rata clause removed from our contract in exchange for cash. They got their wish and the Big 12 got paid north of $30 million each for three big 12 championship games in football when those were added back a few years ago, a ridiculous fee that we forced ESPN into. The rest of the conference was super frustrated when this happened, because they felt like this was their moment to cement the conferences stability and get the TV networks to play along. This was the first big sign that things were not heading in the right direction, hindsight or not.


Most recently (when this all became incredibly obvious to anyone paying attention) when the league went to negotiate and find a TV partner for its remaining three football championship games, ESPN and Fox did not want to play along at first... They did not find the same value in those games that the league did(we asked for $20mm each), but they we’re willing to consider significant rights fee increases overall if the league agreed to a new television contract, similar to the ACC’s new deal. The rates offered at the time from ESPN and Fox were actually quite strong and better than the most recent negotiations. But none of this mattered because Texas and Oklahoma made clear at the time they were not interested in extending their rights beyond 2025, and used the excuse that the changing digital environment meant that we might be leaving money on the table. Fox bowed out and we were down to one major negotiating partner.


To everyone watching, including those of us in the television industry, this was a terrible decision as the cable industry was melting down and there were only gonna be a few spots left should things continue that way, but that same cable industry is still the only place that can reasonably offer the Big 12 conference the kind of money that it would want along with the exposure and distribution that it needs. Signing up with Amazon sounds brilliant, until you realize millions less will watch your product as a result, which has a profound effect on recruiting.


I distinctly remember when the Big 12 added ESPN for the final three championship games along with the Big 12 conference network on ESPN+ that there was a significant feeling around TCU and the league that this could be the beginning of the end for the conference. We got such a small amount of money for those championship games, something around $5 million per game compared to the $20 million we had wanted, which meant that we were heading in the wrong direction. Optimism won out, but as we now know that was misguided.


Of course, the most recent effort to extend our rights led to where we are today, and the story has now been well told. Just don’t let anybody convince you this was at all surprising or unpredictable, those in the room and the industry could tell this wasn’t likely to end well given the stakes. On one hand, you can’t be too mad given how much money is at stake for Texas, OU and others, we would have said yes if invited to the SEC… but that doesn’t make this feel any better since we weren’t.


I don’t have a good feeling yet for where this is headed… the dates to watch are June 2022, June 2023, and June 2025. UT and OU would love for this to be their last year, and the league would love to hold on until June 2025 when our current deals end. For several contractual reasons, June 2023 might be the right compromise with $50-100 million being paid by TX/OU to get out. The conference could still survive intact+a few new members, believe it or not, albeit a shell of its former self. That might be the better option vs a PAC 12 exodus, but it only works if we stay together… losing WVU or KU would be that final nail for sure. Lots of conversations and analysis happening, and the TV networks play a huge role… again, things are going to move both fast and slow over the next 1-3-6-12 months.

Thank you for your posts. They are great. After processing through them it seems pretty clear that ESPN has been negotiating or working side hustles with UT and OU for a while. That just seems clear that it was highly probable that there was a side agreement telling OU/UT that if they kept expansion and renegotiating from happening they would open the door for them into a billionairs SEC club.

My question is IF what I’ve stated is true and that ESPN was doing this behind the scenes, it’s also probable that Fox would want to figure away to strengthen their position by orchestrating a similar arrangement between the top 4 PAC teams with the BIG…It seems highly probable that we end up in a very neutered PAC or B12

I guess my question really is..Is there the feeling that UT and OU negotiated in bad faith.

 

[HG73]

Thank you for your posts. They are great. After processing through them it seems pretty clear that ESPN has been negotiating or working side hustles with UT and OU for a while. That just seems clear that it was highly probable that there was a side agreement telling OU/UT that if they kept expansion and renegotiating from happening they would open the door for them into a billionairs SEC club.

My question is IF what I’ve stated is true and that ESPN was doing this behind the scenes, it’s also probable that Fox would want to figure away to strengthen their position by orchestrating a similar arrangement between the top 4 PAC teams with the BIG…It seems highly probable that we end up in a very neutered PAC or B12

I guess my question really is..Is there the feeling that UT and OU negotiated in bad faith.

Yes.

 

[Gary's Shirtless Revenge]

Thank you for your posts. They are great. After processing through them it seems pretty clear that ESPN has been negotiating or working side hustles with UT and OU for a while. That just seems clear that it was highly probable that there was a side agreement telling OU/UT that if they kept expansion and renegotiating from happening they would open the door for them into a billionairs SEC club.

My question is IF what I’ve stated is true and that ESPN was doing this behind the scenes, it’s also probable that Fox would want to figure away to strengthen their position by orchestrating a similar arrangement between the top 4 PAC teams with the BIG…It seems highly probable that we end up in a very neutered PAC or B12

I guess my question really is..Is there the feeling that UT and OU negotiated in bad faith.

Not so much “bad faith” but rather they had their own agenda from the start vs. trying to make the Big 12 work for all (including them). As was said (anonymously) this week by league leaders… they’ve just been a pain for the league, and rowing in their own direction, for some time… And really mostly Texas, OU less so.

 

[McFroggin]

Not so much “bad faith” but rather they had their own agenda from the start vs. trying to make the Big 12 work for all (including them). As was said (anonymously) this week by league leaders… they’ve just been a pain for the league, and rowing in their own direction, for some time… And really mostly Texas, OU less so.

And allegedly the Big12 members are planning to offer UT and OU a 50% yearly bonus to stay.

 

[Chongo94]

 

[Hoosierfrog]

I live in Houston and UH brings good football, rich alumni Fertitta, and a NFL Stadium and a bowl game. If they got the money. Big league exposure they could recruit just Houston and compete for playoffs.

An NFL stadium? How do they bring an NFL stadium? What they bring that new tinker toy stadium on campus.

 

[Froggish]

Ok St has more options than the rest of the league. They’ll be fine

 

[netty2424]

Wouldn’t surprise me if they landed in the BIG.

Would be nice to hear some nuggets on what TCU is doing, but I’ll just assume for the sake of sanity that they’re playing this close to the vest.

 

[Dman890]

I just wonder if boschini and donati were on top of this. I live in Austin and my sense before this broke was that it was headed this way for quite some time.

I always thought it would be closer to 2025 when this all went down. But they haven’t been satisfied with big 12 since Nebraska and a&m left. This was always a long shot to hold the big 12 together.

TCU always had a very different perspective than pretty much everyone in the conference bc we were just happy to be here..

 

[netty2424]

This can’t be real….?

No it’s not. Upper left corner of the image says “what they meant.”

I actually googled it trying to confirm if it was real.

 

[Froggish]

I just wonder if boschini and donati were on top of this. I live in Austin and my sense before this broke was that it was headed this way for quite some time.

I always thought it would be closer to 2025 when this all went down. But they haven’t been satisfied with big 12 since Nebraska and a&m left. This was always a long shot to hold the big 12 together.

TCU always had a very different perspective than pretty much everyone in the conference bc we were just happy to be here..

I think you’re right but at this point TCU is nine years post hitting the lottery. We’ve been living the high life long enough to be crapping our pants at the foreseeable losses

 

[CountryFrog]

Wouldn’t surprise me if they landed in the BIG.

Would be nice to hear some nuggets on what TCU is doing, but I’ll just assume for the sake of sanity that they’re playing this close to the vest.

These various "reports" coming out mean absolutely scheissing nothing. Every single school is being proactive and talking to every league.

This one sure seems like something that was probably leaked by an OSU person to appease their fanbase. No reason at all for anyone associated with the Big 10 to leak this.

 

[KTown Frog]

The UT annoyance is at an all-time high. I have relatives that are diehard longhorn fans, and by diehard I mean T-shirt fans, who are posting all this stuff about how great Texas is going to be and how great they are now they’re in the SEC with the big boys blah blah blah I just post every score of the TCU football games and of course the responses from them are laughable. I said I guess 6-6 in the big 12 is equivalent to 4-8 in the SEC. better schedule non conference well

 

[netty2424]

These various "reports" coming out mean absolutely scheissing nothing. Every single school is being proactive and talking to every league.

This one sure seems like something that was probably leaked by an OSU person to appease their fanbase. No reason at all for anyone associated with the Big 10 to leak this.

Agree completely.

Sometimes these leaks have value, test the reactions and whatnot.