Has GP lost his fastball?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Notre Dame has picked its own schedule, for years they refused to play in bowls and stacked up NCs while everyone else had the stress of competing for a league and a bowl game. ND plays no Bowl and is awarded a NC.

So, yeah I think they would have had a much harder time competing in conference and having the same success. There is no reason to believe ND would have fared any better than any other private school had they been in a major conference From day one. Their biggest rival, USC, is an example.

ND has been getting their arse kissed by college football for over a century. Do you think ND would have gotten jobbed like we did in 16 using the same scenario? Do believe anyone would’ve said, oops sorry Domers, you don’t have the extra conference championship data point? I tend to think not.

Without a doubt I completely agree but I think their talent across the board has enabled consistency and the ability to compete as a top ten team every year. They may not be in the rarified alabama & Clemson realm but to tell you the truth only those two really are- maybe throw osu in but I think Notre dame competes well against the big ten schools except for Michigan last year

 

[TCU_91]

I said this at the end of last season, GP has pushed us as far as he can.

I can honestly say it pains me to say it, but you could tell after ou got to our defense twice within a few weeks (Pattersons defenses would never have broken that way) this was the beginning of the end .

I will always love and respect the man. He has done so much more than anyone else could have done for our beloved University.

I pray he knows when its time to go enjoy exotic hunting and not tarnish all he has achieved, in addition to hurting the University because of pride.

Its time to kick back and admire everything you have done.

 

[Travis Trucks]

I said this at the end of last season, GP has pushed us as far as he can.

I remember when we first joined the Big 12, everyone was saying "Look at what he did with 2 star recruits and walk ons, now imagine what he can do with a Big 12 recruiting class"

My gut reaction to that was to pump the brakes. I played for the man, I can guarantee you he is a total football nerd and mastermind when it comes to the Xs and Os. And his style of practicing, preparation and attention to detail is 2nd to none.

BUT, it takes a certain type of player to respond well to that style of coaching. I was there from 2007-2010, and we did bring in some talented players on paper. People will point to Jeremy Kerley as a 4* success story, but for every Jeremy Kerley we had 2 Jurrell Thompsons, 4* players who did not respond well to Coach Patterson's style.

My fear was that his style works well when it comes to 2* players and walk ons and guys with chips on their shoulder, but not so much on guys with a lot of hype coming in who picked us over larger state schools. And while he has a good track record of turning 2* guys into NFL players, you can't turn every 2* player into the next Jerry Hughes. There is only so much you can do with limited talent

To put it another way, he is an Xs and Os coach and player developer, not an ego manager. He is a Rick Carlisle, not a Phil Jackson. With more talented players, you might need a Phil Jackson type to keep all the egos in check. Nick Saban is a Phil Jackson. He can keep the egos in check. He has the added bonus of, if you have someone who doesn't pan out at Alabama, your entire 3 deep is full of extremely talented players. Same with Lincoln Riley at OU to a lesser extent. We don't have the depth to be able to make up for a miss like those guys do.

Then you have the useful idiots in college football coaching. These guys are just public faces of the program who cheat and stockpile a mass of talented players and just hope they can keep the NCAA away hire enough good coordinators to wrangle them into a team. Dabo Swiney and Ed Oregeron being the 2 best examples. A private school like TCU can't get away with the useful idiot strategy.

 

[Spike]

Stars win!

 

[Froggish]

You know this but the 4-2-5 is derivative of the Stack Three. It should be easy to morph in and out of that as needed.

This This This...I cant stress enough GP has an unrivaled feel for the game but you can’t always overcome 25 years of film of you doing the same thing over and over. Something as simple of mixing up your fronts and reexamining how you blitz out of them could be tremendously beneficial. Give an offense different looks and they’ll have a much harder time figuring out who to compromise

 

[Froggish]

Mental lapses on defense are going to happen, you can't eliminate them 100%. I think over the past few years the defensive breakdowns have become more apparent because our offense has been so bad that it gives our defense zero margin for error to work with and pretty much needs to pitch a perfect game just to give us a chance.

We had defensive lapses in the Mountain West, but we were so much better than the other team that over the span of 4 quarters those one or two plays didn't matter, but in the Big 12 where each game is decided by 2 or 3 plays, they stand out a lot more.

I'll chalk today up to first game rust without having the tune up game to work out the kinks, but if it continues for the rest of the year I don't think changing coaches is the solution but I do think we will have to go back to the drawing board. Perhaps GP will be in a position in his career where he doesn't have the will power or desire to do such a thing.

I played for Patterson, I know how demanding mentally his defensive schemes can be. Lots of things you have to do right and execute right. I saw plenty of talented players not see the field much during my tenure because they could not grasp the defense from a mental standpoint. The issue is Big 12 offense are way better than MWC offenses so where in the Mountain West if you had a mental breakdown usually we could overcome it. In the Big 12 mental breakdowns lead to 75 and 49 yard touchdown runs like Iowa State had today. If mental breakdowns are that damaging to our defensive scheme we either need to simplify the defense to limit mental breakdowns OR change the defensive scheme to limit the opponent's chance of a big play.

Iowa State's first 75 yard TD run today was the direct result of our defense running the wrong defensive play call, at least from what I could tell. At the time I said "Oh well, it was just one play" because up until that point our defense was playing well. And even our elite defenses of the past have given up a play or two like that in games. But then the mental lapses kept happening at critical moments.

Really good post. My problem has always been that we look at GPs defenses in a vacuum. We see him every week holding teams under their yardage totals and then we look up and GP has once again led the league in the bogus Total Defense stat. But when you dig deeper you see we 3rd or 4th in Scoring def, bottom half in sacks, and give up more 30+ yard plays than anyone in the league. Big play busts are an epidemic with GPs system and as you said, we aren’t talented enough to cover those busts up in the B12.

Something has to change schematically.

 

[sandiegojack]

It has been a steady regression the last few years: trying to win conference, hoping to get a good bowl, trying to get bowl eligible anywhere, to now, just to try to win a couple games.

 

[Travis Trucks]

Really good post. My problem has always been that we look at GPs defenses in a vacuum. We see him every week holding teams under their yardage totals and then we look up and GP has once again led the league in the bogus Total Defense stat. But when you dig deeper you see we 3rd or 4th in Scoring def, bottom half in sacks, and give up more 30+ yard plays than anyone in the league. Big play busts are an epidemic with GPs system and as you said, we aren’t talented enough to cover those busts up in the B12.

Something has to change schematically.

We are almost always 1st or 2nd in the Big 12 in the advanced defensive metrics(i.e. Bill Connelly's S&P, ESPN's FPI, FEI, etc.). However what those stats don't measure is what I call high leverage plays, i.e., we tend not to make plays when they are absolutely needed at critical moments. Best example being last year against Kansas State when we let Skylar Thompson of all people rip off a 75 yard run on 3rd down deep in their own territory in a tie game in the 4th quarter.

We are almost always at the top of the list not just in the Big 12 but the entire country in a stat called Success Rate, one of Bill Connelly's advanced statistics, which pretty much measures, were you successful on that play or not? We always are at the top of the nation in that stat. But Bill Connelly also has another stat, called PPP+, which measures the tendency to give away big plays, and we are always at the bottom of that one. Who cares if you succeed 95% of the time, when those 5% of big plays you do allow pretty much undo the 95% success rate in one go.

Our defense is the equivalent of an offense that is really good at nickel and diming but can never rip off any big plays.

 

[tetonfrog]

The problem is GP’s recruiting. It is not his coaching or energy or focus or yadda yadda yadda............this team was weak at DE & OL last year. GP did not fix it. Sure, our young skill players we brought in are exciting, but GP did not fix our two biggest weaknesses. Hard to be consistent when you can’t rush the passer or protect yours.

i don’t understand how you watch tape from last year all offseason & not fix these issues.

 

[Hoosierfrog]

Without a doubt I completely agree but I think their talent across the board has enabled consistency and the ability to compete as a top ten team every year. They may not be in the rarified alabama & Clemson realm but to tell you the truth only those two really are- maybe throw osu in but I think Notre dame competes well against the big ten schools except for Michigan last year

You seem to be basing that on their history as it is, not as it might be if they had been a private competing with state schools and not keeping every cent as they would in a conference. In that regard they may have good years and stretches like USC, but there is nothing innately special about ND that would indicate they would always be good. They haven’t been very several times as it is.

 

[Hoosierfrog]

The problem is GP’s recruiting. It is not his coaching or energy or focus or yadda yadda yadda............this team was weak at DE & OL last year. GP did not fix it. Sure, our young skill players we brought in are exciting, but GP did not fix our two biggest weaknesses. Hard to be consistent when you can’t rush the passer or protect yours.

i don’t understand how you watch tape from last year all offseason & not fix these issues.

It was one game, and this is not a common year- fewer reps, fewer days of coaching, less conditioning...

There is just no way things can be judged properly after one game this year.

 

[Moose Stuff]

The problem is GP’s recruiting. It is not his coaching or energy or focus or yadda yadda yadda............this team was weak at DE & OL last year. GP did not fix it. Sure, our young skill players we brought in are exciting, but GP did not fix our two biggest weaknesses. Hard to be consistent when you can’t rush the passer or protect yours.

i don’t understand how you watch tape from last year all offseason & not fix these issues.

Well he did bring in a JUCO OL, a transfer OL, what appear to be a couple really good HS OL, 2 transfer DE's, and a promising HS DE.... you just didn't see any impact from them in game 1 (although the OL Coleman did appear to get some time).

 

[Hoosierfrog]

I remember when we first joined the Big 12, everyone was saying "Look at what he did with 2 star recruits and walk ons, now imagine what he can do with a Big 12 recruiting class"

My gut reaction to that was to pump the brakes. I played for the man, I can guarantee you he is a total football nerd and mastermind when it comes to the Xs and Os. And his style of practicing, preparation and attention to detail is 2nd to none.

BUT, it takes a certain type of player to respond well to that style of coaching. I was there from 2007-2010, and we did bring in some talented players on paper. People will point to Jeremy Kerley as a 4* success story, but for every Jeremy Kerley we had 2 Jurrell Thompsons, 4* players who did not respond well to Coach Patterson's style.

My fear was that his style works well when it comes to 2* players and walk ons and guys with chips on their shoulder, but not so much on guys with a lot of hype coming in who picked us over larger state schools. And while he has a good track record of turning 2* guys into NFL players, you can't turn every 2* player into the next Jerry Hughes. There is only so much you can do with limited talent

To put it another way, he is an Xs and Os coach and player developer, not an ego manager. He is a Rick Carlisle, not a Phil Jackson. With more talented players, you might need a Phil Jackson type to keep all the egos in check. Nick Saban is a Phil Jackson. He can keep the egos in check. He has the added bonus of, if you have someone who doesn't pan out at Alabama, your entire 3 deep is full of extremely talented players. Same with Lincoln Riley at OU to a lesser extent. We don't have the depth to be able to make up for a miss like those guys do.

Then you have the useful idiots in college football coaching. These guys are just public faces of the program who cheat and stockpile a mass of talented players and just hope they can keep the NCAA away hire enough good coordinators to wrangle them into a team. Dabo Swiney and Ed Oregeron being the 2 best examples. A private school like TCU can't get away with the useful idiot strategy.

There may be more to this than a lot of the critiques. Kids generally today tend not to respond to anything old school much less a red in the face screamer. You’d see coaches in Houston high schools that were WWII or Korea vets in the 60s dragging people by their face masks, saying the most vile things on the sideline within ear shot of their families, stuff that’d get you sued today. As you say, these 4 and 5 star guys that have signing press conferences and think they already NFL worthy may not respond to old school style coaches. I think the days of the HC being god like and the days of yes sir no sir are long gone. The snowflake avalanche may well be GP’s undoing.

 

[Froggish]

The problem is GP’s recruiting. It is not his coaching or energy or focus or yadda yadda yadda............this team was weak at DE & OL last year. GP did not fix it. Sure, our young skill players we brought in are exciting, but GP did not fix our two biggest weaknesses. Hard to be consistent when you can’t rush the passer or protect yours.

i don’t understand how you watch tape from last year all offseason & not fix these issues.

We have recruited better in the OL and DL the last 2 cycles but those players just aren’t ready. It’s year 3 before you can really count on a trench guy. Show me a team that is consistently having to start Fr and Sophs in the trenches and I’ll show you a team that isn’t very good.

I don’t like that OL/DL seems to only become an urgent recruiting priority every 3 years. It should priority #1 every year outside of QB

 

[Dogfrog]

This.

We're not going to stop each and every play for a loss. We have had a consistently good, sometimes great defense for many years.

Like many have said, the entire GMFP system is predicated on the front 4 getting pressure. Last season, we had little pressure from the front 4. This year looks the same. Why we haven't had any luck getting good recruits to blossom at those positions, especially considering their importance, is strange.

My theory is that Gary’s transition from old school accountability stud coaches like Bumpas to new wave recruiting stud coaches may leave a giant gap in performance. The recruiting studs are salesmen - great at establishing buddy relationships with recruits and their families but maybe not so good at “derecruiting” and lighting fires under players butts. Maybe Gary needs to add accountability coach to his title.

 

[Jefffrog1993]

Our defense needs to force teams to make 80 yard long drives to score touch downs. Sooner or later the offense will make a mistake holding, off sides, dropped pass, bad snap or broken play. Giving up a bunch of yards but fewer points is a much better strategy than our strategy.

Big long plays like we give up kill you especially in close games. Long td runs and deep passes over the top are killing us. Especially When your offense struggles to get first downs let alone td’s.

 

[Eight]

Well he did bring in a JUCO OL, a transfer OL, what appear to be a couple really good HS OL, 2 transfer DE's, and a promising HS DE.... you just didn't see any impact from them in game 1 (although the OL Coleman did appear to get some time).

the frogs have tried to fix the issue at de, they have tried to recruit to fill the position, but they have had some misses and the three you mention are a senior transfer who might be done for the season due to injury, an olb who is converting to de and has to get bigger , and that promising fresh is undersized

workman plays hard, but he is physically undersized and ability. the light has to come on soon for mathis. he got manhandled at times in the run game

don't remember colt playing much and as i said earlier if bowen is needed inside with how lacking the de's were what is going on at dtackle

most of these guys are returning and been in the system for 3+ years so it is disappointing to see the front get handled in the run game

also don't think it is an accident that some of the frog's better defenses had at least one bigger de (I.e. lathan and collier)

 

[Dogfrog]

There may be more to this than a lot of the critiques. Kids generally today tend not to respond to anything old school much less a red in the face screamer. You’d see coaches in Houston high schools that were WWII or Korea vets in the 60s dragging people by their face masks, saying the most vile things on the sideline within ear shot of their families, stuff that’d get you sued today. As you say, these 4 and 5 star guys that have signing press conferences and think they already NFL worthy may not respond to old school style coaches. I think the days of the HC being god like and the days of yes sir no sir are long gone. The snowflake avalanche may well be GP’s undoing.

What you are describing about old style High school coaches is true but I don’t recall seeing any TCU assistants humiliating players during games. The only screamer has consistently been Gary. Guaranteed Bumpas knew how to get their attention, most likely at practice and minutes played. I recall Bumpas always being pretty calm on the sidelines. I think there are plenty of old school coaches who can still communicate accountability rather than resorting to “woke” coaching.

 

[Pharm Frog]

What you are describing about old style High school coaches is true but I don’t recall seeing any TCU assistants humiliating players during games. The only screamer has consistently been Gary. Guaranteed Bumpas knew how to get their attention, most likely at practice and minutes played. I recall Bumpas always being pretty calm on the sidelines. I think there are plenty of old school coaches who can still communicate accountability rather than resorting to “woke” coaching.

I agree. My two cents is that some of the issues is less about screaming and hollering and accountability and lack of accountability and more so with the complexity and "purity" of the system that is being run. While I have a slightly different definition of "talent" than most on this board, what I sense is that some of this speed and athleticism and instinct for the game may be muted a bit by the scheme itself and the precision with which it is expected to be run (mainly D). I think this is true to an extent in both the offensive and defensive systems and may be why we don't look ready at the snap while getting sideline signals in and why we relentlessly substitute in mass during offensive possessions. In either case, I can see why very talented athletes might not be the best "practice" players and may end up limiting their game day playing time in deference to the systems.

 

[BrewingFrog]

I remember when we first joined the Big 12, everyone was saying "Look at what he did with 2 star recruits and walk ons, now imagine what he can do with a Big 12 recruiting class"

My gut reaction to that was to pump the brakes. I played for the man, I can guarantee you he is a total football nerd and mastermind when it comes to the Xs and Os. And his style of practicing, preparation and attention to detail is 2nd to none.

BUT, it takes a certain type of player to respond well to that style of coaching. I was there from 2007-2010, and we did bring in some talented players on paper. People will point to Jeremy Kerley as a 4* success story, but for every Jeremy Kerley we had 2 Jurrell Thompsons, 4* players who did not respond well to Coach Patterson's style.

My fear was that his style works well when it comes to 2* players and walk ons and guys with chips on their shoulder, but not so much on guys with a lot of hype coming in who picked us over larger state schools. And while he has a good track record of turning 2* guys into NFL players, you can't turn every 2* player into the next Jerry Hughes. There is only so much you can do with limited talent

To put it another way, he is an Xs and Os coach and player developer, not an ego manager. He is a Rick Carlisle, not a Phil Jackson. With more talented players, you might need a Phil Jackson type to keep all the egos in check. Nick Saban is a Phil Jackson. He can keep the egos in check. He has the added bonus of, if you have someone who doesn't pan out at Alabama, your entire 3 deep is full of extremely talented players. Same with Lincoln Riley at OU to a lesser extent. We don't have the depth to be able to make up for a miss like those guys do.

Then you have the useful idiots in college football coaching. These guys are just public faces of the program who cheat and stockpile a mass of talented players and just hope they can keep the NCAA away hire enough good coordinators to wrangle them into a team. Dabo Swiney and Ed Oregeron being the 2 best examples. A private school like TCU can't get away with the useful idiot strategy.

This is an excellent analysis!!!

I often wondered at the difference in ego of the 2* vs. the 4* kids, and the sense of entitlement. As you said earlier, the kids coming in were often the best player on their team or nearly so. They were used to easily making the play or having the little bit of speed necessary to cover an error. Not so in College. Add in the Age of Social Media and you've got a real set of mental issues and sense of entitlement that simply didn't exist just 10-15 years ago.

How do you weed out the Ego Princes and the Locker Room Cancers before they poison your team? How can you tell beyond simple performance stats who will be a positive player for the future, and who will hog up a scholly and flame out?