GP might have to do with SRob what he did with Dalton

[CountryFrog]

I don't expect TCU to ever get to Alabama's level, but I do expect them to get to a National Title. There is no reason we shouldn't, we've had the talent to do so in the past and the 2010 and 2014 teams should have competed for it. But the drop off from those teams isn't going in the right direction. There are growing pains, but why can't our coaching staff get their stuff together and do what (I cringe saying this) Baylor did, and plug players in and having the type of offense they did during the rapelor years? Or what about what Washington is doing? Peterson and Patterson I feel are very similar, but Peterson seems to be making the transition, where Patterson is being too stubborn and keeping coaches he shouldn't and not getting the one's he needs for a natty.

I'd say TCU and Washington are pretty much at the exact same place right now as programs. There are also a ton of Washington fans who feel like they're being held back by their QB so we're similar in that way too.

 

[Eight]

I bet if our last two games were against Houston and Ok State then we'd probably have far fewer turnovers and no one would be complaining about our QB. I also bet if SR was starting for Alabama right now that Bama would be scoring 50 on everyone just like they currently are.

It's easy to cherry pick examples of young QBs having strong performances because they're surrounded by unbelievable talent and/or have played nothing but horrible defenses so far.

i don't think many here want to recognize the physical talent in the texas secondary and the quality of scheme tcu saw on saturday stacked as you point out on top of facing and equally talented ohio state secondary and defense.

boyd and davis both considered entering the nfl draft last year and were told they should come back to raise their rankings. boyd is going to be a top 3 round guy and is as physically talented as any corner reagor will match up against this year. washington does a great job teaching the texas corners, they do a good job with the young safeties and orlando does as good a job as any dc in the big 12 scheming with the talent he has on his roster.

 

[CountryFrog]

A lot of Boykin's greatness was just an inate ability to create when the pocket broke down, he just had a knack. Even at the end of his career, I never considered him to be particularly polished in terms of being a fundamentally sound QB.

Well, Cumbie has only been here for 4 full years. If you're going to say he's not doing a good job because SR is struggling right now and 2016 was a disaster and hist completely ignore the two years where we were one of the best offenses in the country then that doesn't seem very fair. Boykin certainly didn't look like a great QB before Sonny got here.

Also, you mentioned backup QBs always coming in and being clueless. I guess you're also conveniently forgetting about Bram. Or was Bram like Boykin and just such an amazing talent that he didn't need any coaching?

 

[CountryFrog]

Agreed. He hid our huge deficiency at OL, by being the most elusive QB. It also didn't hurt to have a WR that could catch anything.

You can't have it both ways man. Blaming the coaches for not recruiting and developing enough talent while giving them absolutely no credit for our best offensive teams because they were TOO insanely talented.

 

[Eight]

The biggest concern about Shawn is between the ears. He has no clue how to read a defense. He also has sloppy mechanics and throws off his back foot constantly. Almost like a fadeaway jump shot. I blame a good chunk of it on Cumbie. He’s failed to develop one QB that he’s recruited into a competent starter. Sawyer, Muehlstein, and Wooten have all been busts. Robinson has athletic talent, but he seems very unpolished for a sophomore QB in this era. Cumbie is great at getting highly rated QB’s to campus, and he seems like a genuinely great person and family man. Just not seeing much from him as a developer of QB talent or as an in game strategist.

can we stop trotting this [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ] out about not developing the talent at the position.

boykin went from a great talent playing quarterback to big 12 offensive player of the year and a spot on an nfl roster. guess he did that on his own?

hill was solid for two seasons and now robinson is the starter.

wooten was a midget with a weak arm and a system quarterback in high school. numbers throwing the ball don't mean you have the talent to play at the next level.

sawyer played against overmatched private schools and had an astoundingly weak arm when he got his chance to play.

grayson, who knows, so far what i see is a solid job with the two previous starters.

 

[Horny4TCU]

You can't have it both ways man. Blaming the coaches for not recruiting and developing enough talent while giving them absolutely no credit for our best offensive teams because they were TOO insanely talented.

Alright, almighty wise one, riddle me this. Are you happy with our recruiting at all positions?

If you're happy or not happy with how we are recruiting, are you happy with the players development?

Then, do you think Sophomore and Junior players should be making these kinds of mistakes and playing at this level?

Why do we have to wait for players' senior years to have amazing talents?

 

[Wexahu]

Well, Cumbie has only been here for 4 full years. If you're going to say he's not doing a good job because SR is struggling right now and 2016 was a disaster and hist completely ignore the two years where we were one of the best offenses in the country then that doesn't seem very fair. Boykin certainly didn't look like a great QB before Sonny got here.

Also, you mentioned backup QBs always coming in and being clueless. I guess you're also conveniently forgetting about Bram. Or was Bram like Boykin and just such an amazing talent that he didn't need any coaching?

Fair point about Bram, but he wasn’t coached by Cumbie for long and our staff initially thought Foster Sawyer was a better option since he got the start at OU when Boykin got hurt. I’m not sure what to think about that.

 

[Wexahu]

can we stop trotting this [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ] out about not developing the talent at the position.

boykin went from a great talent playing quarterback to big 12 offensive player of the year and a spot on an nfl roster. guess he did that on his own?

hill was solid for two seasons and now robinson is the starter.

wooten was a midget with a weak arm and a system quarterback in high school. numbers throwing the ball don't mean you have the talent to play at the next level.

sawyer played against overmatched private schools and had an astoundingly weak arm when he got his chance to play.

grayson, who knows, so far what i see is a solid job with the two previous starters.

Why did we recruit Wooten then? Wasn’t that Cumbie’s guy? If a kid doesn’t have the physical tools to play at this level, why waste a scholarship on him?

 

[CountryFrog]

Alright, almighty wise one, riddle me this. Are you happy with our recruiting at all positions?

If you're happy or not happy with how we are recruiting, are you happy with the players development?

Then, do you think Sophomore and Junior players should be making these kinds of mistakes and playing at this level?

Why do we have to wait for players' senior years to have amazing talents?

I'm totally happy with all aspects of the program. We've won 11+ games in 3 of the past 4 years and finished in the Top 10 all of those years. We have more talent coming in than ever before.

I haven't lost perspective of where we are as a program just because of what's taken place over the last 8 days.

 

[Horny4TCU]

I'm totally happy with all aspects of the program. We've won 11+ games in 3 of the past 4 years and finished in the Top 10 all of those years. We have more talent coming in than ever before.

I haven't lost perspective of where we are as a program just because of what's taken place over the last 8 days.

Do you think at this rate, and what you have seen thus far, that this team will finish in the top 10? Do you think they are even going to get to 10 wins in the regular season? Do you think SR is playing like Sophomore QB?

 

[CountryFrog]

Fair point about Bram, but he wasn’t coached by Cumbie for long and our staff initially thought Foster Sawyer was a better option since he got the start at OU when Boykin got hurt. I’m not sure what to think about that.

So there's just not anything that can possibly happen for you to give Cumbie any credit at all. We went from one of the worst offenses in the country in 12 and 13 with very bad QB play to one of the top offenses in the country in 14 and 15 with elite QB play. But you aren't willing to give SC any credit for those two years.

In 2017, he made the most out of an offense that had a strong OL but was average at QB and WR and had injuries throughout the season at RB. No credit there either I guess.

All you want to talk about is the disaster of 2016 (even though we were actually really good on offense to start the year just couldn't keep it going throughout) and the last two weeks with SR.

Then you say that the coaches aren't doing their job because backup QBs haven't had stellar success (even though just about every college and pro team who loses their starting QB sees a dramatic decreases in offensive efficiency) and when provided an example of a backup QB who did have stellar success you just write that off too and say that you don't know what to think about it.

 

[Eight]

Why did we recruit Wooten then? Wasn’t that Cumbie’s guy? If a kid doesn’t have the physical tools to play at this level, why waste a scholarship on him?

you are asking the wrong guy as to why they recruited him.

maybe sonny thought he would develop, maybe he thought they would run an offense closer to what sonny was part of at tech, recruiting is a very inexact science that people are wanting definitive answers.

you don't always know if a kid can physically match up until they come to school. football is one sport where you really don't get to see the kids in a comparative environment. even in 7-on-7 it is projecting from basically pass skeleton.

there have been multiple kids that tcu has signed the past 5-6 seasons i really don't know why they got signed. some worked out and others never saw the field. there are multiple factors that go into why some kids make it and others don't, but you are also talking about the only real position on the team where there isn't multiple players playing the position during a season.

teams rotate backs, linemen, receivers, but at the most 2 players at the quarterback position and that is incredibly rare.

the measurement for success in developing this position should be the level of play and not how many recruits ended up playing and playing well because it is a flawed idea

 

[CountryFrog]

Why did we recruit Wooten then? Wasn’t that Cumbie’s guy? If a kid doesn’t have the physical tools to play at this level, why waste a scholarship on him?

Who was the last QB that OU actually recruited whose played at a really high level for them? Sam Bradford?

Sometimes you miss on kids. It's a tough position to evaluate and project. Just ask every NFL coach and GM ever.

 

[CountryFrog]

Do you think at this rate, and what you have seen thus far, that this team will finish in the top 10? Do you think they are even going to get to 10 wins in the regular season? Do you think SR is playing like Sophomore QB?

We aren't a top 10 team right now for sure. I have no idea what we will be at the end of the season.

I'm just not going to freak out over 2 bad weeks when we have years of evidence showing what this program is. I didn't freak out when we went 6-7 two years ago and I'm not doing it right now either after 2 losses in what were probably 2 of our 4 toughest games of the year. Teams lose games sometimes. It doesn't mean the program is crashing.

Virginia Tech just lost to Old Dominion and people on this board drool over the greatness of Justin Fuente. We lost to Texas and Ohio St.

 

[Wexahu]

So there's just not anything that can possibly happen for you to give Cumbie any credit at all. .

That's pretty ridiculous. Of course a lot of things can happen for me to credit Cumbie. I think he's a very good recruiter. I'm much less impressed with him as a coordinator. I keep reading from another poster that a run-pass balanced attack is what Cumbie is wanting. Why do our TEs hardly ever play? Why are all the receivers that get PT those that are 185 lbs or less? Why does Sewo get the bulk of the carries when in my opinion he is ill-suited for this offense? Yeah, I guess DA is hurt but he looks fine to me, at least better than Sewo.

I'm just a fan like most of us here, but all I know is that when we go into games like yesterday I'm 10x more worried about the offense than the defense. In road games it seems magnified, we hardly EVER have good, clean games offensively on the road. Just too unorganized, too many head-scratching personnel packages, cutesy play-calling, etc. When I'm watching I'm often wondering what the heck the plan is, with the exception of the first drive or two. The defense makes adjustments to what we're doing and it feels like the rest of the game we're just kind of all over the place searching for something that might work.

 

[Horny4TCU]

We aren't a top 10 team right now for sure. I have no idea what we will be at the end of the season.

I'm just not going to freak out over 2 bad weeks when we have years of evidence showing what this program is. I didn't freak out when we went 6-7 two years ago and I'm not doing it right now either after 2 losses in what were probably 2 of our 4 toughest games of the year. Teams lose games sometimes. It doesn't mean the program is crashing.

Virginia Tech just lost to Old Dominion. We lost to Texas and Ohio St.

I wasn't freaking out about the 6-7 season, either. However, I was done with Kenny Hill and his lack of development. I am in the same situation with SR at this point. He clearly has the talent, but he is making mistakes and doing things a player that has been in program two years, shouldn't be doing. Patterson needs to make some changes on his staff and SR needs to sit down for a minute and think about what he's doing. That is all I am saying.

My thoughts:
1. We need a Receivers coach.
2. We need Cumbie to focus on game planning.
3. We need a QB coach that isn't Cumbie.
4. SR needs the Dalton treatment to grow as a man and a player.
5. Kenny Hill needs to get away from SR, because I think he might be having a negative affect.

 

[jake102]

Have to admit that I suspect the laughing after an INT comes from Hill. Pretty sure people got on him about that.

It’s one thing to shake a bad play off but laughing on the sidelines is a brutal look

 

[CountryFrog]

That's pretty ridiculous. Of course a lot of things can happen for me to credit Cumbie. I think he's a very good recruiter. I'm much less impressed with him as a coordinator. I keep reading from another poster that a run-pass balanced attack is what Cumbie is wanting. Why do our TEs hardly ever play? Why are all the receivers that get PT those that are 185 lbs or less? Why does Sewo get the bulk of the carries when in my opinion he is ill-suited for this offense? Yeah, I guess DA is hurt but he looks fine to me, at least better than Sewo.

I'm just a fan like most of us here, but all I know is that when we go into games like yesterday I'm 10x more worried about the offense than the defense. In road games it seems magnified, we hardly EVER have good, clean games offensively on the road. Just too unorganized, too many head-scratching personnel packages, cutesy play-calling, etc. When I'm watching I'm often wondering what the heck the plan is, with the exception of the first drive or two. The defense makes adjustments to what we're doing and it feels like the rest of the game we're just kind of all over the place searching for something that might work.

You just replied to my post explaining all of the things that Cumbie has been successful with and ignored every single one of them because it seems like to you that they are unorganized and you don't like the personnel packages.

This is one week after putting more yards on Ohio State's defense than anyone has in the last 4 years.

We're all confused about DA not getting more carries. The rest of the complaints about SC are premature, unfounded, or both.

 

[CountryFrog]

I wasn't freaking out about the 6-7 season, either. However, I was done with Kenny Hill and his lack of development. I am in the same situation with SR at this point. He clearly has the talent, but he is making mistakes and doing things a player that has been in program two years, shouldn't be doing. Patterson needs to make some changes on his staff and SR needs to sit down for a minute and think about what he's doing. That is all I am saying.

My thoughts:
1. We need a Receivers coach.
2. We need Cumbie to focus on game planning.
3. We need a QB coach that isn't Cumbie.
4. SR needs the Dalton treatment to grow as a man and a player.
5. Kenny Hill needs to get away from SR, because I think he might be having a negative affect.

You were done with Kenny Hill and his development after the 6-7 season? But then we won 11 games the next year with him. Any credit to SC for that?

 

[Horny4TCU]

You were done with Kenny Hill and his development after the 6-7 season? But then we won 11 games the next year with him. Any credit to SC for that?

A smidge goes to SC... He learned how to use KH and worked with his deficiencies. But I think he was able to do that because of Chris Thomsen. Our OL did us no favors in 2016.

Chris Thomsen is the root of my jump to conclusion on the staff needs. We see what a good coach can do to an abysmal part of our team. And right now, it seems we lack at QB development and WR development. Let's do what we did with the OL and get some people on staff that can focus on those groups.