FWST: An elite eight in college football? The case for and against expanding the playoffs.

[NewFrogFan]

Not a massive underdog but since the playoff expanded to four we’ve gradually had less and less parity in the game. And I think if it goes to 8 it will only get worse. Some of the blue bloods will be able to say to recruits come to our school and you’ll probably make the playoff every single year.....and they’ll be right. The huge advantage those schools already have will only get larger.

Meanwhile the transfer portal gets larger every year with some very good players going somewhere else and having a major effect like this year. More is better. I dont care if I see a game against Sam Houston State if it means expanding playoffs.

 

[LSU Game Attendee]

$1 billion - isn’t that how much the NCAA makes off of March madness alone

not sure how anyone can say it wasn’t a good thing to expand college basketball and the argue it would be bad for football to try and grow

even the CWS playoff expansion has helped grow baseball

I pine for all the athletes’ Rhodes and Marshall scholarships sacrificed at the altar of big money. Academic excellence is really the victim here!

 

[CountryFrog]

Arguing with Wex about the playoffs is basically like arguing the virtues of the free market with a Communist Party member from the Soviet Union. Whether he thinks he's actually right about the way things are or not, you're NEVER going to get him to budge on any aspect of the system.

 

[ShreveFrog]

We already have basically a 10-team playoff if you count the ccg’s as the first round. Expand the playoffs, and the excitement of ccg weekend, with semi final playoff spots on the line, goes way down.

 

[HG73]

We already have basically a 10-team playoff if you count the ccg’s as the first round. Expand the playoffs, and the excitement of ccg weekend, with semi final playoff spots on the line, goes way down.

Correct. The only way the CCGs remain viable is if they provide entry into the playoff. 5 winners, a wildcard game between #4 and #5, then the four team CFP.

 

[JockO de Frog]

So because of a circumstance in 2014 that occurred (before the Big 12 CCG was even created) it’s necessary to add more teams? Name another year that we needed 8 instead of 4.

Why? One in ten would be it be better than none. Just like LSU this year they had a perfect storm. Why not give the TCU's of the world an opportunity at that Perfect Storm? Besides, it would probably be more than one in ten because it's college football. Isn't that why we watch it, because you just never know.

 

[JockO de Frog]

And incidentally, the ccg was in 2014 which was the big debate.

 

[CountryFrog]

We already have basically a 10-team playoff if you count the ccg’s as the first round. Expand the playoffs, and the excitement of ccg weekend, with semi final playoff spots on the line, goes way down.

Why are we concerned about the sanctity of conference championship games? While interest in THAT weekend may somewhat decrease nationally, there would still be regional interest in the games. And for national interest, you're simply replacing CCG weekend with round 1 of the playoff weekend. And that weekend would generate MUCH more interest nationally than the current ccg's do.

You could even make the argument that this would INCREASE the importance of those ccg's because a playoff berth would be on the line in all 5 games every single season. While some of the participants in those games may have spots locked up, most of the teams playing will still need to win their conference to get into the playoff. There will only be 2 or 3 at large bids each year depending on how they handle the G5 bid so unless you're #1 or #2 going into that weekend you still need to win that game. Plus even 1 and 2 will be playing to ensure home field advantage in round 1 assuming the first round will be played on campus locations.

 

[ShreveFrog]

I’ll

While some of the participants in those games may have spots locked up, most of the teams playing will still need to win their conference to get into the playoff.

This is why I don’t want expansion. If, say a top team feels they’re guaranteed a spot in an 8-team playoff or can’t improve their seed, why should they ball out in a ccg? You’ll see teams resting some guys, or just not going all out to win. Then some conference championships become a bit tainted or less valuable. We already see this in basketball and baseball.

 

[Wexahu]

I can remember when BB expanded, they never looked back and continue to cash big checks. America loves the possibility of #16 seed making the run.

A 16 seed has never “made a run” in the basketball tournament. They are 1-150 or whatever and the team that did win a game lost in the round of 32. Those games are a waste of time but since they only take two hours and another round of playoffs can be played 2 days later it’s no big deal.

The popularity of the basketball tournament has more to do with brackets and gambling than the actual games. And it’s basically ruined the regular season.

 

[Wexahu]

Why are we concerned about the sanctity of conference championship games? While interest in THAT weekend may somewhat decrease nationally, there would still be regional interest in the games. And for national interest, you're simply replacing CCG weekend with round 1 of the playoff weekend. And that weekend would generate MUCH more interest nationally than the current ccg's do.

You could even make the argument that this would INCREASE the importance of those ccg's because a playoff berth would be on the line in all 5 games every single season. While some of the participants in those games may have spots locked up, most of the teams playing will still need to win their conference to get into the playoff. There will only be 2 or 3 at large bids each year depending on how they handle the G5 bid so unless you're #1 or #2 going into that weekend you still need to win that game. Plus even 1 and 2 will be playing to ensure home field advantage in round 1 assuming the first round will be played on campus locations.

The CCGs would almost have to go away. You’d have way too many instances of teams gaining an advantage by being ranked in the Top 8 and not playing in the game because of a conference division tiebreaker.

And when you get rid of the CCGs how are these 14-team conferences with big scheduling disparities going to determine a champion? I guess they won’t and we won’t care but it’d be weird to not really have conference champions anymore.

 

[Dogfrog]

The ccg is the first thing that should go away. Who cares? Create a consistent champion criteria across all conferences. The 14 team conferences inter-division play is pretty random already. Screw them. Let them fix it. If their second place team isn’t good enough to be chosen as an at-large, so be it. If this creates enough whining among those at ESPN, CFP in Irving, bowl venues, etc, then expand to 16.

 

[flyfishingfrog]

A 16 seed has never “made a run” in the basketball tournament. They are 1-150 or whatever and the team that did win a game lost in the round of 32. Those games are a waste of time but since they only take two hours and another round of playoffs can be played 2 days later it’s no big deal.

The popularity of the basketball tournament has more to do with brackets and gambling than the actual games. And it’s basically ruined the regular season.

you keep talking up that ruined the regular season thing....ignoring the sell out streaks of the top teams or the fact that making a tournament field that size and maybe winning a game or two in that tournament is the main goal for about 100 schools in the country including TCU.

Geez - do you really believe all this BS about a larger field ruining college basketball? do you think the same thing about baseball when the expanded to the 4 team regional format?

 

[froginmn]

I get stuck on the logistics of an 8 team playoff. In 2014 we went to the Peach Bowl and I had a great time with my daughter. We flew from Minneapolis and spent a few days in Atlanta. With an 8 team playoff that first game would have been in Tallahassee or maybe Columbus - probably mid December. As a fan experience that would suck and I probably wouldn't have gone. My daughter certainly wouldn't have.

Then a couple weeks later there would be a game in New Orleans, followed by another game in Arlington. Obviously the third location (and the second) would have worked for our fan base but if it is three trips out of town (Atlanta and Phoenix, say) it gets a lot more complicated (and expensive for last minute flights). In the worst case you lose your first game and your reward for a great season was a road game in Columbus OH in December.

 

[TooColdU]

I get stuck on the logistics of an 8 team playoff. In 2014 we went to the Peach Bowl and I had a great time with my daughter. We flew from Minneapolis and spent a few days in Atlanta. With an 8 team playoff that first game would have been in Tallahassee or maybe Columbus - probably mid December. As a fan experience that would suck and I probably wouldn't have gone. My daughter certainly wouldn't have.

Then a couple weeks later there would be a game in New Orleans, followed by another game in Arlington. Obviously the third location would have worked for our fan base but if it is three trips out of town it gets a lot more complicated (and expensive for last minute flights). In the worst case you lose your first game and your reward for a great season was a road game in Columbus OH in December.

With the way the schedule was this year, there were two weeks between the semifinals and the championship.

Logically, the solution would be to have the quarterfinals around New Years, then use the off-week for the semifinals and have the championship the following week. Each playoff team would have around 3 weeks to prepare for potentially 3 games in 3 weeks.

The bowl season would start and end the during the same time frame as this past year.

I know that the two week layout between playoff games isn’t the norm, but it sets a good foundation for expanding.

 

[froginmn]

With the way the schedule was this year, there were two weeks between the semifinals and the championship.

Logically, the solution would be to have the quarterfinals around New Years, then use the off-week for the semifinals and have the championship the following week. Each playoff team would have around 3 weeks to prepare for potentially 3 games in 3 weeks.

The bowl season would start and end the during the same time frame as this past year.

I know that the two week layout between playoff games isn’t the norm, but it sets a good foundation for expanding.

Yeah but which game(s) would you travel to in that scenario? Keep in mind that you can't buy a plane ticket to the later games unless you want to get a refundable ticket, or travel for no reason, or eat the cost.

Also, you put a big strain on schools trying to sell seats to their fans with priority points, etc.

 

[HToady]

All P5 champions plus the highest ranked non P5 plus the two highest ranked non champions with the later 3 being the lowest seed.

Took all of a minute to come up with that.

 

[Wexahu]

Yeah but which game(s) would you travel to in that scenario? Keep in mind that you can't buy a plane ticket to the later games unless you want to get a refundable ticket, or travel for no reason, or eat the cost.

Also, you put a big strain on schools trying to sell seats to their fans with priority points, etc.

These are the things that nobody really considers, and the logistics of adding another round of games is a major issue. And comparing it to a basketball or baseball tournament is stupid. These are events with 60-70k people, not 5-10k.

Here is another one....if home fields are used for the quarterfinal games, every single school will have to have contingency plans in place to host a game on a few weeks notice. I don’t know what all goes into planning that but I know it’s not something that is all that simple. And 90% of schools will have to do it knowing there is probably < 1% chance they’d ever actually host a game.

 

[TooColdU]

These are the things that nobody really considers, and the logistics of adding another round of games is a major issue. And comparing it to a basketball or baseball tournament is stupid. These are events with 60-70k people, not 5-10k.

Here is another one....if home fields are used for the quarterfinal games, every single school will have to have contingency plans in place to host a game on a few weeks notice. I don’t know what all goes into planning that but I know it’s not something that is all that simple. And 90% of schools will have to do it knowing there is probably < 1% chance they’d ever actually host a game.

With all the money involved in playoff games, there are very smart people/companies that specialize in logistics such as this that the playoff committee and schools can hire. Shocker, I know. Using “logistics” as an excuse to not expand is just lazy.

If it does cause a big issue, then just use neutral site games and keep the schools out of the planning process.

 

[Dogfrog]

Yeah but which game(s) would you travel to in that scenario? Keep in mind that you can't buy a plane ticket to the later games unless you want to get a refundable ticket, or travel for no reason, or eat the cost.

Also, you put a big strain on schools trying to sell seats to their fans with priority points, etc.

I think everything would have to change. Other than Army Navy the regular season ends in November. That gives you approximately six weeks to get three playoff weekends in before school starts. The first round at home site of the 1-4 seeds. I would assume visitor tickets would be greatly restricted, an advantage to the higher seeds. I would also see the semis being at a predetermined mid continent NFL site, and the final being at a similar or different site. So not necessarily at traditional bowl sites. As for travel, just like baseball and basketball the venues are predetermined so plan around that. As for tickets, NCAA starts selling tickets months before so availability becomes an after market crap shoot, participating teams receiving some that TCU could sell based on priority. But rest assured if TCU made the semi or the final there would be a bunch available aftermarket. Keep in mind TCU might also have a pre-sale based on contingencies as in the past.