Fall camp thread

[texas_sicilian]

Absolutely 100% correct on all accounts IMO.

Your 2nd. sentence in the 1st. paragraph is the key to the season and I say NO. I'm sorry Delton enthusiast, but he never has had it - sure special packages for him but to lay 40+ on OU, Texas or Iowa State, not so fast because those teams are going to score. GP has yet to figure out Riley and we go on the road at night to Ames - you gotta score - driving the field on the road at Norman or Ames late in the 4th. quarter to win with Delton, don't see it.

Delton is not the type of QB in the above situation on the road that would strike fear into the opposing defense like a Boykin, Mayfield, or Murray. Do we have such a QB on the squad now - if we do, he's undercover so far.

Believe Duggan has the potential to be that guy, the question is will we take the risk to give him a chance to grow into the role/threat that many believe he can be... knowing how risk averse this staff is, I am fearful we would opt for a respectable 9-3 season with known upward limitations. It’s a safer/surer bet.

 

[berryfrog95]

It may be time for GMFP to roll the dice and go outside the box with the Frosh.... I’ll obviously watch from a distance but gosh darn this is our year to make a big splash

 

[Mean Purple]

The stuff that JC says on 247 or from the coaches about Delton surprising with his passing is all either lies, lipstick on a pig, or misdirection from the coaches. The bottom line is that he has mediocre pass stats in his career. I get that KSU wasn’t a prolific passing offense, but Snyder passed just fine with Klein. If Delton had been a strong passer, he would have passed the ball more often.

How was KSU's offensive line when Delton played? Did the other qb have significantly different stats?

 

[netty2424]

The stuff that JC says on 247 or from the coaches about Delton surprising with his passing is all either lies, lipstick on a pig, or misdirection from the coaches. The bottom line is that he has mediocre pass stats in his career. I get that KSU wasn’t a prolific passing offense, but Snyder passed just fine with Klein. If Delton had been a strong passer, he would have passed the ball more often.

Exactly where I’m at on this and stated something similar on 247. Snyder coached a long time and if he had a guy who could throw, I’m guessing he would.

The other side is maybe he can throw, but was a poor decision maker so Snyder chose not to let him throw. Unlike Cumbie did with SR and gave him the green light.

And love GP as much as the next guy, but GP might as well just not give sound bytes or quotes. I understand a little bit, I believe a little bit, but most of it is just misdirection, imo.

 

[Froggish]

How was KSU's offensive line when Delton played? Did the other qb have significantly different stats?

KSt had a pretty experienced line last year. The other QB wasn’t drastically better but threw about 2.5 times more passes 200+ to 80 and finished with a higher completion % 58.7 to 55 and a higher RTG 125 to 115.

Delton was injured some but he was definitely beaten out..

 

[4th. down]

Believe Duggan has the potential to be that guy, the question is will we take the risk to give him a chance to grow into the role/threat that many believe he can be... knowing how risk averse this staff is, I am fearful we would opt for a respectable 9-3 season with known upward limitations. It’s a safer/surer bet.

9-3 may be it if we go with Delton all the way. You won't beat OU in Norman or Iowa St. in Ames. Normally 9-3 would be ok with a chance of a bowl win but this year's defense and Reagor plus 2 offensive linemen to go in draft along with Blacklock and others, to me, you have to go for the throat while you have the chance.

It will be multiple seasons before a defense like this returns.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

9-3 may be it if we go with Delton all the way. You won't beat OU in Norman or Iowa St. in Ames. Normally 9-3 would be ok with a chance of a bowl win but this year's defense and Reagor plus 2 offensive linemen to go in draft along with Blacklock and others, to me, you have to go for the throat while you have the chance.

It will be multiple seasons before a defense like this returns.

Back to back 8-5 seasons and suddenly Iowa State is so tough we can’t win in Ames with the best defense in the GP era and a ball control QB?

 

[Wexahu]

9-3 may be it if we go with Delton all the way. You won't beat OU in Norman or Iowa St. in Ames. Normally 9-3 would be ok with a chance of a bowl win but this year's defense and Reagor plus 2 offensive linemen to go in draft along with Blacklock and others, to me, you have to go for the throat while you have the chance.

It will be multiple seasons before a defense like this returns.

If you’re going for the throat playing a true freshman at QB seems like a really really bad idea. Delton may not be everything we want him to be, but I’m guessing if 2018 Delton were playing against Iowa high school kids last year instead of Big 12 defenses he might’ve won the Iowa Gatorade POY award too.

The coaches are going to play the guy who gives us the best chance to win, I’m pretty sure of that. And I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be Duggan until at least next year. And 9-3 would be a pretty damn good season too.

 

[ShreveFrog]

Believe Duggan has the potential to be that guy, the question is will we take the risk to give him a chance to grow into the role/threat that many believe he can be... knowing how risk averse this staff is, I am fearful we would opt for a respectable 9-3 season with known upward limitations. It’s a safer/surer bet.

There's too much talent on both sides of the ball for us to settle for playing a true freshman in hopes of better future returns. If Duggan is our best option to win now, ok. But only then. (I have my doubts.) Let's win the Big 12 and see what happens!

 

[4th. down]

Most on this forum seem to have doubts on starting anyone other than Delton for various reasons. Yes, he's the safe bet and 9-3 would be ok in most years but not this year with our current defense. Delton could not keep his starting position at KSt. in 4 years and they didn't have an abundance of talent.

Could Delton turn out to be a Bram, a hidden gem? Doubt it, Bram's are few and far between. OK, it's Delton and 9-3 with losses to OU, Texas, and Iowa St.

 

[netty2424]

If you’re going for the throat playing a true freshman at QB seems like a really really bad idea. Delton may not be everything we want him to be, but I’m guessing if 2018 Delton were playing against Iowa high school kids last year instead of Big 12 defenses he might’ve won the Iowa Gatorade POY award too.

The coaches are going to play the guy who gives us the best chance to win, I’m pretty sure of that. And I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be Duggan until at least next year. And 9-3 would be a pretty damn good season too.

According to 247, Delton had two scholarship offers out of high school. Memphis, and Kansas St.

He’s wasn’t winning POY in any state.

Not knocking him, just saying he wasn’t that heavily recruited. And he went to high school in Kansas. Iowa and Kansas aren’t too far off from each other in terms of high school talent.

 

[Wexahu]

According to 247, Delton had two scholarship offers out of high school. Memphis, and Kansas St.

He’s wasn’t winning POY in any state.

Not knocking him, just saying he wasn’t that heavily recruited. And he went to high school in Kansas. Iowa and Kansas aren’t too far off from each other in terms of high school talent.

I’m saying 2018 Delton would have won POY in Iowa, not 2014 or 2015 Delton. The question is whether true freshman Delton gives us a better chance to win than senior Delton and who the better player is today.

 

[netty2424]

I’m saying 2018 Delton would have won POY in Iowa, not 2014 or 2015 Delton. The question is whether true freshman Delton gives us a better chance to win than senior Delton and who the better player is today.

I guess I need to go back and read some previous posts. This doesn’t make sense to me at all.

Should it read true freshman Duggan? Vs senior Delton?

 

[Wexahu]

I guess I need to go back and read some previous posts. This doesn’t make sense to me at all.

Should it read true freshman Duggan? Vs senior Delton?

I may have to read some too. I thought the argument being made was that since Delton struggled at KSU and didn't look all that great, if we're going to go for the throat this year someone else should be the starter.....and since nobody here seems all that thrilled with the prospect of Collins being the guy, some seem to be convinced Duggan has the most potential of anyone and should be playing this year, even though I doubt anyone here has really seen him play a game.

It's like everyone wants to rag on how 247 and Rivals ranks these kids coming out of high school but then they seem to have more faith in those rankings than GP and the coaching staff who see these guys play every day in practice. For example, if Duggan ends up 4th string this year and doesn't play one down there will be people here calling BS and that GP doesn't like freshman and won't play the best guy because he's stubborn.

The point about true freshman Duggan vs senior Delton is exactly that. Who is better? Because that is all that matters this year. I personally don't know but I'd guess that Delton is.

 

[CountryFrog]

I just don't understand how any of us can pretend to know nearly enough about any of these QBs to have a clue who is the best since we've seen only one of them actually take more than 2 snaps in a TCU uniform.

Any outrage on August 5th about the QB depth chart is fake and/or very ill-informed.

 

[4th. down]

Back to back 8-5 seasons and suddenly Iowa State is so tough we can’t win in Ames with the best defense in the GP era and a ball control QB?

You would think so, but I bet Iowa St. is favored. Purdy is good, Montgomery is still there, and they have good wide outs @ 6'4" and SUPPOSEDLY, their defense this year will be comparable to ours. This is NOT the old Iowa St. It would be hard for us to make a long drive late in the 4th. quarter to win with a game manager.

 

[Eight]

This all sounds great in a perfect world but I don't see Sonny as an OC and the last bowl game proved it if you had any doubt. 3 weeks to prepare with a QB that doesn't know how to pass and what do we do, come out passing. You would have thought at halftime GP would have lowered the boom on him but no, he comes out passing again in the 3rd. quarter. Since Meach left, the offense has done basically little. Was it Meach or just the combination of Sonny and Meach plus Boykin/Doctson?

so if you don't see sonny as an oc, don't see a quarterback who can make the plays needed to win game, and feel we have to find a win to win with minimal dependence on the defense than this team is scheissed and that all is at the feet of the man who runs the program gary patterson.

sonny doesn't need to be paul brown, bill walsh, or any other offensive genius. he just needs to be smart enough to build an offense around the strength of the unit which is the offensive line.

he needs to find a quarterback who can consistently make the basic throws, and he needs to feed this playmakers.

as i said if sonny isn't capable that isn't merely on sonny, but gary as well. if however, sonny can do that big things are potentially in play for this team and since i have absolutely no control over any of this i will hope for the best until i see otherwise.

oh...and ignore the practice reports any attempts to read the tcu football tea leaves

 

[netty2424]

I may have to read some too. I thought the argument being made was that since Delton struggled at KSU and didn't look all that great, if we're going to go for the throat this year someone else should be the starter.....and since nobody here seems all that thrilled with the prospect of Collins being the guy, some seem to be convinced Duggan has the most potential of anyone and should be playing this year, even though I doubt anyone here has really seen him play a game.

It's like everyone wants to rag on how 247 and Rivals ranks these kids coming out of high school but then they seem to have more faith in those rankings than GP and the coaching staff who see these guys play every day in practice. For example, if Duggan ends up 4th string this year and doesn't play one down there will be people here calling BS and that GP doesn't like freshman and won't play the best guy because he's stubborn.

The point about true freshman Duggan vs senior Delton is exactly that. Who is better? Because that is all that matters this year. I personally don't know but I'd guess that Delton is.

Gotcha. I think the double use of Frosh Delton vs Senior Delton threw me.

I’m in the camp that believes Delton has had 4 years of D1 football to build even a decent resume. I don’t care about school, program, scheme, coach, whatever. His resume is that he’s a “great leader.” There’s no real stats to support anything he’s been able to do on the field. In 4 years.

So for me, and I feel what some others have tried to portray is, if Duggan and Delton are close in competition, let Delton help Duggan prepare, and let Duggan see if he’s ready to man the helm. Delton was brought in for leadership, IMO. Not to transform the offense into a 2014 juggernaut.

This assuming, for the sake of the conversation, Collins isn’t part of the equation. Which I actually believe he will be. So there’s that.

 

[netty2424]

I just don't understand how any of us can pretend to know nearly enough about any of these QBs to have a clue who is the best since we've seen only one of them actually take more than 2 snaps in a TCU uniform.

Any outrage on August 5th about the QB depth chart is fake and/or very ill-informed.

Can’t have enough football conversation, good, bad, or indifferent, with 3.5 weeks to play.

 

[SuperBarrFrog]

If you’re going for the throat playing a true freshman at QB seems like a really really bad idea. Delton may not be everything we want him to be, but I’m guessing if 2018 Delton were playing against Iowa high school kids last year instead of Big 12 defenses he might’ve won the Iowa Gatorade POY award too.

The coaches are going to play the guy who gives us the best chance to win, I’m pretty sure of that. And I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be Duggan until at least next year. And 9-3 would be a pretty damn good season too.

I’m pretty sure whether they actually start the guy that is the best and gives us the best chance to win is exactly what folks are worried about. We see Bama, Clemson, and UGA all finally succumbing to talent and playing true freshman QBs and going to the playoffs. If Duggan is the best player hopefully we will have the guts to start a true freshman too. The times they are a changing.