Big 12 Basketball Tournament Thread

[OmniscienceFrog]

Think Oklahoma State kind of gets screwed with this 2:30 start time. Should’ve been Baylor vs. West Virginia since neither team has played.

Don't be the 8 seed and have to play on Wednesday. The start time is designed to be more fair to the #1 seed, so they don't have to play a night game on Thursday and an afternoon game on Friday if they advance, which they are usually expected to do.

 

[CountryFrog]

I hope you’re right. We’ve been bad at closing out close games all year and we aren’t blowing anyone out in the Dance. Today was probably the worst example of it. Didn’t even make a FG in overtime.

Now that's a point that I tend to agree with. There's a large sample size of this team performing poorly at the end of close games more times than not. That's definitely troubling. I'd be worried about that regardless of the results of this one game against KSU, though, because it's happened so often.

 

[CountryFrog]

There is no way to prove it, but I totally disagree. Shooting a basketball is just like riding a bike. If you were once a very good shooter, it would only take a bit of warmup to shoot well again. Playing a game is a different story, but free throws, no

#1 I strongly disagree that shooting a basketball is like riding a bike. You can't pick up a basketball after 10 years of not touching one and a few minutes later be a great shooter again.

#2 Doing it in game situations is the main reason it's so hard. I bet Robinson is an 80% free throw shooter in the gym by himself when he's fully rested.

 

[CountryFrog]

I never played basketball competitively in my life; only in the driveway shooting around. I'm now 37 and last time I shot free throws was in Iraq in 2011. We had a contest within my platoon and I made 7 of 10 after missing the first 2. I lost to my gunner by one shot.

I believe free throw shooting is as much a head game as golf. I went up expecting to make 3-4 of 10 so I had nothing to lose and nothing to think about. ARob can shoot free throws better, but he's got to get his head right for it to happen.

Did you run 15 suicides right before you shot those free throws? Were there real stakes on the line when shooting? Were thousands of people watching you in person with a few million more watching on tv?

I don't disagree that it's mostly mental for AR. It almost always is for poor free throw shooters. I just can't stand when people think screwing around with their buddies shooting free throws is comparable in any way to shooting them in an actual game situation.

Most importantly, though, thank you for your service.

 

[Chico Dusty]

#1 I strongly disagree that shooting a basketball is like riding a bike based. You can't pick up a basketball after 10 years of not touching one and a few minutes later be a great shooter again.

#2 Doing it in game situations is the main reason it's so hard. I bet Robinson is an 80% free throw shooter in the gym by himself when he's fully rested.

1 - are you saying this from experience? It’s all muscle memory. I can assure you there are former great shooters that can go LONG stretches of time and pick up a ball and not miss a beat. I know plenty of people that can. Do you think David Gilmour could play the guitar solo of “Wish you were here” after 10 years of not playing? The answer is he definitely could. Similar thing...muscle memory.

2 - Yes, it is harder to convert shots in a game, but not so much for free throws. They’re uncontested obviously, so the in-game atmosphere doesn’t play as much into it. Yeah, maybe he laces them in practice and has a mental block in the game. But until someone comes on here and says that, I’m just going with he’s not that great of a shooter. Because a lot of guys shoot great in practice and shoot great in the game. Fish was high 80’s in FT %, so accordingly to your logic, when he’s not in the game and well rested he never misses.

 

[Purp]

Did you run 15 suicides right before you shot those free throws? Were there real stakes on the line when shooting? Were thousands of people watching you in person with a few million more watching on tv?

I don't disagree that it's mostly mental for AR. It almost always is for poor free throw shooters. I just can't stand when people think screwing around with their buddies shooting free throws is comparable in any way to shooting them in an actual game situation.

Most importantly, though, thank you for your service.

No. I'd just led the platoon on a couple laps around the FOB. No big deal, just 3-4 miles. The basketball was a fun way to finish PT.

Also, I did emphasize that I had nothing to lose and very low expectations. That was the crux of my argument that it's a head game.

Alex is in better physical condition than I was 7 years ago. He can catch his breath enough to shoot free throws in a game. And I'd be stunned if the team wasn't practicing free throws under distress and fatigue to better simulate game conditions. We trained similarly on rifle ranges at times.

Finally, if the people watching live and on TV are a consideration for a player at the free throw line then he has less ability to focus than a gnat with ADD. I can't accept that from a player of his caliber at his level.

 

[PO Frog]

#1 I strongly disagree that shooting a basketball is like riding a bike. You can't pick up a basketball after 10 years of not touching one and a few minutes later be a great shooter again.

#2 Doing it in game situations is the main reason it's so hard. I bet Robinson is an 80% free throw shooter in the gym by himself when he's fully rested.

Re: your point #2, I was just reading an article I came across while searching for the article about UCONN following Steve Nash's practice drill and helping them to a title. Anyways, the article had a white board from the Laker's locker room in the Dwight Howard era that had every player's practice stats and game stats for free throws. Dwight was an 82% shooter in practice over 1500 attempts, which was the worst on the team. Most guys were in the 90s in practice. His game percentage was 49%.

Couple of take-aways. NBA guys are good at free throws despite conventional wisdom that they aren't, and, they clearly practice them a lot. However, if it's not the right kind of practice that carries over into the game, it doesn't matter how much you do it. That's why I was looking up the UCONN article...

 

[mgsouthpaw]

Agreed and have said it all year. FT's missed will be our downfall...again. They shouldn't even practice anything but FT's before the tournament.

Actually the opposite. No amount of practice on free throws will help - just get better at other stuff.

Also, same as GP benched dalton as a freshman after each int everytime AR jumps up in the air with ABSOLUTELY no clue where he is going to pass the ball he should come out.

And to think i though no one could drive me more crazy than kavar shepard.

 

[Wexahu]

i'm going out on a limb here and saying that slightly more than half will be one and done.

Maybe more than that. The strength of the conference was that the bottom was spectacularly good compared to other leagues. Literally zero bad teams. When Iowa State is the worst team in the league, that's ridiculous. But unfortunately the rest is maybe a few good to a little better than that teams and a bunch of NCAA-bubble caliber teams. We're going to get a slew of 7-10 seeds which means the opening round games will be 50/50 type games and then getting past Round Two will take a pretty major upset. I'd set the over-under on how many B12 teams make the regionals at 2, and I don't know which bet I'd make. KU and WVU aren't any better than any other conferences best two teams IMO.

 

[Pharm Frog]

i'm going out on a limb here and saying that slightly more than half will be one and done.

Admittedly I haven't found much interest in following March Madness in the last 15 years or so other than to justify slacking off from work during the first Thursday/Friday set, but I am wondering how slightly more than half of the teams can lose their first round games.

 

[Froggy Style]

Actually the opposite. No amount of practice on free throws will help - just get better at other stuff.

Sounds reasonable. I now agree that practice doesn't help muscle memory and confidence to help you improve your craft. I'll update all other athletes that practice doesn't help you get better.

 

[Pharm Frog]

Sounds reasonable. I now agree that practice doesn't help muscle memory and confidence to help you improve your craft. I'll update all other athletes that practice doesn't help you get better.

Established science per 2017 KillerFrogs.com. See post #107 in this thread.

 

[tcumaniac]

Alex and a few others should read this link.

https://basketballhq.com/4-keys-to-becoming-a-great-free-throw-shooter

 

[OldSchoolFrog]

1 - are you saying this from experience? It’s all muscle memory. I can assure you there are former great shooters that can go LONG stretches of time and pick up a ball and not miss a beat. I know plenty of people that can. Do you think David Gilmour could play the guitar solo of “Wish you were here” after 10 years of not playing? The answer is he definitely could. Similar thing...muscle memory.

2 - Yes, it is harder to convert shots in a game, but not so much for free throws. They’re uncontested obviously, so the in-game atmosphere doesn’t play as much into it. Yeah, maybe he laces them in practice and has a mental block in the game. But until someone comes on here and says that, I’m just going with he’s not that great of a shooter. Because a lot of guys shoot great in practice and shoot great in the game. Fish was high 80’s in FT %, so accordingly to your logic, when he’s not in the game and well rested he never misses.

1. I picked up a ball at a business trip last week and went 80% on 20 attempts with the first 7 in a row.

2. Then I ran down to the other guy and hacked the [ Finebaum ] out of him and ran him out of bounds. In sofit America, that's a flagrant foul. In hard America, my coach had me watch VCR tapes of Rambiss, Worthy, and Lambeer, and said do that 5 times a game and be good at free throws.

Then I converted a 1x1 to allow myself to leave the gym.

Purp, I love the idea of hoops for PT. We used to play combat ultimate frisbee or football, depending on what "ball" was available.

Go Frogs! I like our chances to get out of the first 2 rounds.

 

[AroundWorldFrog]

Admittedly I haven't found much interest in following March Madness in the last 15 years or so other than to justify slacking off from work during the first Thursday/Friday set, but I am wondering how slightly more than half of the teams can lose their first round games.

The play in games. 68 teams playing for 64 spots. So 36 teams will lose and 32 win when the first round is over.

 

[Sticky_Wicket]

Need a .gif ASAP

 

[Pharm Frog]

The play in games. 68 teams playing for 64 spots. So 36 teams will lose and 32 win when the first round is over.

I figured that's where you may have been going or that you were predicting the outcomes of Big 12 teams. Still think that it's 50% that are one and done. If you are having to play to get in, you ain't in.

 

[LisaLT]

I LOVE that lol! I wonder who it is

 

[CountryFrog]

1 - are you saying this from experience? It’s all muscle memory. I can assure you there are former great shooters that can go LONG stretches of time and pick up a ball and not miss a beat. I know plenty of people that can. Do you think David Gilmour could play the guitar solo of “Wish you were here” after 10 years of not playing? The answer is he definitely could. Similar thing...muscle memory.

2 - Yes, it is harder to convert shots in a game, but not so much for free throws. They’re uncontested obviously, so the in-game atmosphere doesn’t play as much into it. Yeah, maybe he laces them in practice and has a mental block in the game. But until someone comes on here and says that, I’m just going with he’s not that great of a shooter. Because a lot of guys shoot great in practice and shoot great in the game. Fish was high 80’s in FT %, so accordingly to your logic, when he’s not in the game and well rested he never misses.

Yes, I'm saying it from experience. I can assure you that I'm a far worse shooter now than I was in my younger days. I think you're underestimating the difference between just picking up a ball and shooting in a gym and shooting while in a game. If I'm just shooting by myself then I could be mistaken for someone who hasn't lost his touch. But as soon as I start running around and shooting contested shots is when the lack of practice hits you.

All I'm saying is that you can't drop couch potato Joe into a game situation and expect his backyard free throw percentage to carry over. That's not a controversial statement to make. It's just a fact. So it irritates me sometimes when people so flippantly say things like that.

For Alex, he's not the most gifted shooter in general to begin with, so when you throw in all the other factors then this is what you get. And I wouldn't doubt at all Fisher and similar shooters to him can probably make 40, 50, 60 free throws in a row if they're just standing in a gym doing nothing else.

 

[CountryFrog]

Re: your point #2, I was just reading an article I came across while searching for the article about UCONN following Steve Nash's practice drill and helping them to a title. Anyways, the article had a white board from the Laker's locker room in the Dwight Howard era that had every player's practice stats and game stats for free throws. Dwight was an 82% shooter in practice over 1500 attempts, which was the worst on the team. Most guys were in the 90s in practice. His game percentage was 49%.

Couple of take-aways. NBA guys are good at free throws despite conventional wisdom that they aren't, and, they clearly practice them a lot. However, if it's not the right kind of practice that carries over into the game, it doesn't matter how much you do it. That's why I was looking up the UCONN article...

Anyone who has arrived to an NBA game a couple hours early had probably seen players out there just shooting over and over again with one other person feeding them passes. They don't miss much of anything. It's crazy how a guy who's just an average shooter by NBA terms can just go all the way around the 3 point arc and hit about 18 of 20.