froginmn
Full Member
FIFY
2020 Recruiting Thread
- Thread starter Moose Stuff
- Start date
LawFrog504
Active Member
I made the same argument on here months ago and was crucified.
flyfishingfrog
Active Member
At the moment - every QB he has ever recruited basically
Who has come in at that position since he got here? Which ones lived up to the position?
Purp
Active Member
I've heard it from enough people who would know that I accept it as truth. JC also seemed to intimate some things on the podcast that corroborate what I've heard.
Eight
Member
i find it interesting you are so keen to point to numbers from kenny's first year at atm when he was being asked to do different things under a different staff with a completely different mindset.
kenny's numbers between 2016 and 2017 show a steady improvement in his execution of what he was asked to do by sonny. that was not the pattern seen in college station where his performance began to drop off over time.
kenny was a field manager, but a field manager who went 3-3 against ranked opponents and executed well enough that tcu won at arkansas and stillwater. as well as being a key part to the comeback versus stanford.
maybe i am only remember the good about kenny, who knows, but i agree with those that believe that boykin and hill both got better under sonny.
kenny's numbers between 2016 and 2017 show a steady improvement in his execution of what he was asked to do by sonny. that was not the pattern seen in college station where his performance began to drop off over time.
kenny was a field manager, but a field manager who went 3-3 against ranked opponents and executed well enough that tcu won at arkansas and stillwater. as well as being a key part to the comeback versus stanford.
maybe i am only remember the good about kenny, who knows, but i agree with those that believe that boykin and hill both got better under sonny.
Ron Swanson
Full Member
Cumbie has been sole OC and play-caller for 2 years now.... 2017 and 2018
- 2017 offense was mediocre and we won a lot of games despite it (our defense was really good)
- 2018 offense was incredibly bad, bordering on comical
I’m not putting that on Cumbie necessarily because I realize there are a lot of variables at play, but I’m also not convinced he’s a good OC yet either. I’m really pulling hard for Cumbie, he seems like an awesome guy and I think he could potentially take over for GP in 6-10 years, but he’s gonna have to start fielding good offenses sooner than later.
- 2017 offense was mediocre and we won a lot of games despite it (our defense was really good)
- 2018 offense was incredibly bad, bordering on comical
I’m not putting that on Cumbie necessarily because I realize there are a lot of variables at play, but I’m also not convinced he’s a good OC yet either. I’m really pulling hard for Cumbie, he seems like an awesome guy and I think he could potentially take over for GP in 6-10 years, but he’s gonna have to start fielding good offenses sooner than later.
LawFrog504
Active Member
If you think we were winning games in 17 because of kenny hill i don't know what to tell you. Don't write back to me with stats against the 3 high schools we played that year. Once we got behind against OU twice and ISU he couldn't take us back. End of story
Eight
Member
when i have gone back and looked at the conference games i find myself pondering how tcu lost games like tech and kansas and not sure how in the world tcu won the isu, ksu, and baylor games.
funny thing is that in the opener against texas the offense did some good things, but the missed opportunities and turnovers cost tcu the game as much as anything else.
if that pass reaches reagor he walks in and the frogs go up 2 scores on texas in the 3rd quarter and forces texas to change how they play out the game.
rock bottom offensively was the wvu game and this is where i scratch my head about what happened offensively.
i agree with ron that sonny has struggled as the solo-oc and agree with froggish as we have talked in the past about the route design in the tcu passing game.
somehow though with injuries at quarterback and running back and issues in teh offensive line things come together and the frogs find just enough points against baylor and then play their best overall game against ok state.
Eight
Member
you make it sound as if the tcu quarterback situation is close to atm under sumlin where they signed and lost 2 5-star quarterbacks.
sonny's first 3 quarterbacks were sawyer a 3-star, wooten a 3-star, and the mule was a 3 star recruit.
they were all beaten out by atm transfer kenny hill who was a 4-star recruit coming out of slc.
his next 3 quarterback prospect were robinson a 4-star, rogers a 4-star, and duggan a 4-star.
robinson struggled this year and as moose pointed out played this year with a shoulder injury that has plagued him since high school.
rogers has been working to overcome a dislocated knee and duggan just go on campus.
so in recap, the first 3 recruits were beat out by a higher rated transfer (though the mule ended up his career undefeated), robinson struggled, rogers has been rehabbing, and duggan just got to campus
i am sure you can point out the holes in my logic or where i got off tract
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According to the updated 2017 S&P+, our offense was ranked #22 while our defense was ranked #19. Those are both pretty good.
I agree, last year's offense was terrible. Some of that is due to injuries, but the offense definitely has to improve. I believe that pretty much any QB that plays this year will be better than what we had last year, so I am pretty sure we will improve on offense.
Moose Stuff
Active Member
Good to see someone gets it.
Moose Stuff
Active Member
What a beating this argument continues to be. Was Kenny Hill some amazing QB? Nope. But he was a solid college QB and far better than most people on this board will ever give him credit for.
flyfishingfrog
Active Member
So are those results what you expect from one of the highest paid coordinators in the country and a expected QB centric OC?
Sounds like a bunch of excuses for why we have had a really mediocre offense - not one reason why we should be thrilled at our choice of current Offensive leader
Moose Stuff
Active Member
How about you give him a fair shake with one of the current highly rated recruits we’ve got on campus before casting judgement? A couple years from now if we’re still debating then we’ve probably got an issue because all signs point to us having really solid options at QB moving forward. The reality of the other guys that have been here like Wooten, Mule, and Foster is that none of them were any good and they wouldn’t have been no matter who was calling plays.
Eight
Member
dude, seriously cut back on the day drinking because that is the only logical explanation for what you just wrote.
sonny's 700k isn't even close to being one of the top paid oc's in the country and i think tcu is closer to getting their money's worth from sonny than the 1.15M apiece michigan is paying pep hamilton and tim drevno and the $1.5 eddie o paid matt canada at lsu.
since it has long been established you know far more than any of us who should have started at quarterback before kenny hill?
wooten? sawyer? the mule?
hill was a highly regarded recruit who not only turned his life around in ft worth, but led the frogs to an 11-3 record and #9 ranking in 2017.
how many quarterbacks in tcu history have a top 10 finish on their resume? i am damn sure that is a long list.
you want to argue that collins should have played before robinson, you might have a leg to stand on, but outside of that you are hitting golf balls in the fog triple f.
flyfishingfrog
Active Member
So the fact that he did the best he could with mediocre recruits is your line of reasoning for why it's ok that we continue to satisfied with our current offensive capability?
Just ignoring the fact that the guy who has the reins has been in charge of recruiting those guys for well over the tenure of the current players and evidently couldn't convince anyone better than the previous group to come and then couldn't do much more with the guys he could convince so far?
Yeah - that sounds like a great resume builder for the OC at what thinks it should be a top 25 program most years and a top 10 occasionally...
We can give him rope until he hangs the whole staff if we want - just not sure that is smart.
You really like our current senior coaches - I can tell because it is never their fault for our teams struggles.
Aren't you a scout or something like that? when the players a scout says sign all become busts - is it always the players faults for not being who they should have been? or is it sometimes because the scout isn't that good at his job?
flyfishingfrog
Active Member
Cumbie makes a lot more than $700k - he started making 7 figures when he decided to stay and we had two OC's.
Got another raise when we chased Doug off.
Tax returns from 5 years ago aren't really that accurate for your future reference.
And no - I think he played the best guy we had. I question why that was the best guy we had and why he couldn't do more with who he did have on the team if that was his choice for who to play.
Last year would have gotten most OC's fired or at least on the hotseat - but as we know, Gary never fires anyone.
Eight
Member
i don't really give a [ Finebaum ] about anyone's tax return besides the one i have to file each for your future reference.
please tell me which coaching staff at tcu is meeting your expectations? which coach is doing a good job because we damn well know you aren't happy with schloss, think gary is too loyal, and not too happy with dixon.
please tell me which oc has done a good job developing and utilizing their talent at tcu? not sure the benchmark, but in 2016 tcu goes 11-3 with 2 losses to ou and finishes #9 in the country. they graduated 4 offensive linemen and their quarterback, have injuries in the offensive line this year, injuries at running back, quarterback struggles, and sonny should be posting his resume on linkedin according to you.
unfucking believable triple fff and that is coming from a guy who has tilted more than his share of windmills on this site
