NewFrogFan
Full Member
LOTS of names on here now, no where to be seen in 2001 when I first posted.
Fire Gary
- Thread starter MinerFrog2409
- Start date
NewFrogFan
Full Member
In my world of fighter pilot friends, you would have gotten some serious comments about your “stones” looking like raisins. I had to read it 3 times to make sure I had it right. Just fyi!
Dutch
T C U Froooogs
How many schools just dominate every year? 4 or 5 (Alabama. Clemson. Ohio State, Oklahoma) . When I went to TCU we were 6-36-2. The beautiful facilities, the upgraded conferences, the larger and more qualified student body, all of the construction etc would not be there without LHCGMFP. You front running critics make me want to vomit.
BrewingFrog
Was I supposed to type something here?
Well, funny. I was there in those sad times, too. And I don't see any problem at this point calling for GMFP's retirement. 20 years is a damned fine run, and he accomplished many great things during that time that none of us Long Suffering Frog Fans even thought possible. Yet, all good things must come to an end, and nemesis has caught up with hubris to turn the world of TCU sour.
We've been running on fumes for 3 years now. There is no evident depth on the roster past the starters, which means that our vaunted recruiting has been a series of costly 4* flops. The one bright light on the team spends his time sitting on the bench while the game is in doubt because we have an OC who is... Words literally fail me. He should not be here, and every minute he is here I believe we suffer as a team. The strength of TCU has been the defense, and that was prison raped by an SMU squad who, by their "recruiting ranking" shouldn't have been able to carry our team's garbage to the curb. But, there it is. GMFP has failed in the most important aspect of running a team: Motivation. We ain't got it. There's no team pride, no esprit de corps, no poise, no swagger. Nothing.
That was an embarrassment out there on Saturday. A truly shameful display of every inadequacy that has been bandied about on this site for the last five years. It has only gotten worse. In a way, we should be grateful to Sonny for tearing off all the bandages and showing the world the stinking gangrene underneath.
Dutch
T C U Froooogs
I am sticking with him.
Fiscuits
Active Member
You are asking the wrong question, Dutch. From your comments, you were at TCU from a by gone era when TCU was truly mediocre and had an athletic budget equivalent to some Texas high schools. That was decades ago.
Gary certainly deserves credit for putting TCU as a whole on the national map. Which he has, in the form of tens of millions of dollars in his bank account. TCU and it's fans do not "owe" Gary anything. He's been rewarded handsomely.
The TCU of today , is considered a top 20 job in the country. We have athletic resources better than most NFL teams.
No one is asking for domination every year. I do not read anyone saying that ever.
But looking at the stats and numbers....Gary should be offered the chance to retire at the end of this season and if he declines...fired.
It's a results oriented business and his result over the past 6 seasons are AWFUL.
BrewingFrog
Was I supposed to type something here?
That's fine. I was in those shoes last season, preaching that "the devil we know is better than the devil we don't." I no longer believe that. GMFP has made some ghastly personnel decisions, and has lost the respect and confidence of his players. One cannot come back from that without wholesale changes, and he is not willing to change what is plainly not working.
Prime BEEF
Active Member
Exactly. If our standard was a 5-4 big 12 record and beat SMU every year, GP would fail that standard. That is not asking for domination.
This Ain't Chopped Liver
Active Member
I don‘t think this is the appropriate time of year to be discussing this, three games (more like two) into a season and before we have a tally on the conference season. TCU is 0-0 in conference play and everything is still in front of them. It is likely that the defense and team will improve, if they stay healthy enough. We know that player turnover with ensuing and frustrating slow starts and inconsistency are part of college football, maybe more than in any other sport.
Coach P is a winning coach at a non-flagship university, the smallest school in a P5 conference that can’t fill its 46k stadium. He built its football program, TCU’s brand name, and grew the University. Really one of a kind results. Be very careful in analysis and thought before moving on from him. Longhorns and Aggies fired their winning coaches, Brown and Slocum, and struggled for years while having the advantages of brand and scale.
The younger people here don't have perspective of longer history, having been spoiled by Coach P and his winning—Coach now a victim of his own success.
Coach P is a winning coach at a non-flagship university, the smallest school in a P5 conference that can’t fill its 46k stadium. He built its football program, TCU’s brand name, and grew the University. Really one of a kind results. Be very careful in analysis and thought before moving on from him. Longhorns and Aggies fired their winning coaches, Brown and Slocum, and struggled for years while having the advantages of brand and scale.
The younger people here don't have perspective of longer history, having been spoiled by Coach P and his winning—Coach now a victim of his own success.
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FrogCoach84
Active Member
There’s just so many reasons they can’t and won’t fire Gary.
- He has a statue
- TCU as a whole (I would include the big cigars) feel indebted to GP despite the millions they’ve put in his bank account
- ADJD doesn’t have any idea how to handle a coaching search
- GP, for all his flaws, is incredibly respected in the coaching community. You don’t know how other coaches would view kicking GP to the curb
- No one knows if TCU is a destination job or a stepping stone job.
- How much money would they owe a fired GP? And how much money would they have to shell out for a legit candidate?
- ADJD is below GP in the hierarchy
So the focus needs to shift to GP’s staff. That is a legit path to fixing this mediocrity. You [ Finebaum ]can his dead weight and don’t approve anymore brother in law hires. Go out and get actual coaches with ambition and creativity. You do that and GP is the one with the decision to make. He can either adapt to not having a crew of yes men or he can pitch a fit, take his guitar and go home.
The obvious risk there is an ugly and public divorce. But it forces Gary’s hand.
- He has a statue
- TCU as a whole (I would include the big cigars) feel indebted to GP despite the millions they’ve put in his bank account
- ADJD doesn’t have any idea how to handle a coaching search
- GP, for all his flaws, is incredibly respected in the coaching community. You don’t know how other coaches would view kicking GP to the curb
- No one knows if TCU is a destination job or a stepping stone job.
- How much money would they owe a fired GP? And how much money would they have to shell out for a legit candidate?
- ADJD is below GP in the hierarchy
So the focus needs to shift to GP’s staff. That is a legit path to fixing this mediocrity. You [ Finebaum ]can his dead weight and don’t approve anymore brother in law hires. Go out and get actual coaches with ambition and creativity. You do that and GP is the one with the decision to make. He can either adapt to not having a crew of yes men or he can pitch a fit, take his guitar and go home.
The obvious risk there is an ugly and public divorce. But it forces Gary’s hand.
Fiscuits
Active Member
Amen.
SMU game as an example:
Z. Evans only 15 rush attempts. And still leads the nation in yards per carry.
QJ - zero catches. Only three attempts all game.
Zach Duggan - has 10 rushing attempts. TEN. [ What the heck? ] is he doing running so much when we go 4 deep at RB, not to mention the #1 RB in the United State of America is standing right behind him? Not to mention he fumbled it twice.
Offense did not lose the game on Saturday and usually scores enough to win most games regardless of the bad play calling.
But GARY hired Meachum (unimaginative and worthless) and Jerry Kill (worthless)...so he has to accept the consequences.
And while you are at it...the DC (Gary Patterson)...not that great anymore. Great is having a winning conference record, which we haven't in years.
Eight
Member
not worried about what gary's coaching peers think if he was or was not treated fairly. nick saban and chris peterson aren't going to be the one replacing him and my experience in the world is regardless of why someone has been fired you will have people who believe they can get the job down in that position
say that because i just don't see any changes being made on the defensive side of the ball as long as gary is running this program. not in scheme, mindset, techniques taught, how personnel is utilitzed, and who comprise the staff and if that isn't going to happen
hope it does for the benefit of the season, but we have seen this loop again and again and again on the defensive side of the ball
LVH
Active Member
I wish I could agree here and normally I would but the SMU loss wasn't a typical loss. It wasn't like losing to Oklahoma who sliced us up in the short passing game or throwing the ball over our heads, or losing to Kansas State because they were opportunistic on special teams and had our offense in a funk, or losing to Iowa State because we turned the ball over 4 times.
We lost because we got thoroughly destroyed in the trenches, specifically our defensive line which provided no resistance all game long. That hints at something much deeper and I am not sure that can be fixed very easily. Remember when BYU physically beat the [ Finebaum ] out of Texas in 2013 and then did the same thing again in 2014, it was systemic and signs of a deeper problem.
Eight
Member
your second and third paragraphs are irrelevant to evaluating the direction of this program and if gary has the will to do what is needed to position this program to be competitive in the future.
as far as 3 games in, agree it is turn early to make a decision, but there are some very disturbing trends in the last two weeks.
hiphopfroggy
Active Member
Naw, they have been crushing the transfer portal and recruiting well lately. Smu is loaded w/ talent. I think they would beat Arkansas this year.
Fiscuits
Active Member
Hate to break this to you - but Gary is no longer a winning coach. And hasn't been for a while. Our record is the only stat that matters. We have lost more than won in the Big 12 and barely broke even 5 of 6 years.
We can't and will never fill a 40k+ seat stadium. Reasoning - we are a small school. We have never filled our stadium. It's like asking Southlake Carol - the best High School program with largest most passionate following in the country - to fill Cowboys Stadium every weekend. It's a ridiculous unobtainable argument.
And if we are being honest...Franchione started the program rebuild, not Gary. Gary DID take what Franchione left and built on it. There is no doubt about it. He helped TCU's brand name and help the University brand...of which TCU has provided him generational wealth for.
TCU does not "owe" Gary anything.
And as far as a "non flagship University" - I hate to break it to you - but TCU is one of the MOST popular Universities in America. Despite it's ridiculous cost of tuition...or in this case mediocre football team.
I am being very careful in the analysis looking at the only thing that is not effected by emotion, numbers. He should have been asked to retire by now.
Brown and Slocum were "asked to retire" for the same exact reasons that Gary's time is over and it could be argued they both built the brands as much or more than Gary (Mack won a freaking national title for crying out loud by was asked to go). Those schools know what we haven't learned. The coach is never bigger than the program. So when they started to slip...they were gone. And when their replacements slipped, they were gone.
Gary has been slipping for years. It's a results oriented business and his results are mediocre in the Big 12...at best.
Fiscuits
Active Member
Other coaches would view it with their resume immediately forward to TCU's AD in ten seconds. We'd have coaches tripping over themselves to get the job.
The TCU fan's image of our program is amazing to me. We have EVERYTHING. Toys to go with the toys.
We act as if when Gary leaves...we might as well implode the stadium. Hysterical.
Dutch
T C U Froooogs
Texas thought that about Mack Brown. Last year he was in the Orange Bowl. Texas had 8 years of a lot worse off.
Fiscuits
Active Member
Exactly and what have we been doing.......if you go to SMU's facilities and then come to ours....you will be even more pissed off that we are in the position we are in. Hell, if you go to ANYONE's facilities and look around you'll feel that way.
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