Mean Purple
Active Member
rubbin' is racin'. or is it rape? better ask Briles.
#BAYLORTEARS
- Thread starter TCUdirtbag
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Mean Purple
Active Member
Smellslikeroses
Full Member
Ventures over to BF and they actually had some damming evidence against Garland:
This is pretty astonishing testimony from Garland about his lies to the Texas Senate Higher Education Committee:
Q: Well, you told the Texas Senate that everyone culpable for these failures were no longer at Baylor. Do you recall that?
A: I do recall that.
Q: So how do you know that to be true, if you don't know who the senior leadership is that were the ones that did not provide the institutional support or proper engagement? How do you know that to be true, what you told the Texas Senate?
A: Well, I may have been misled, but I understood that personnel decisions were evaluated, and those persons were removed.
Q: Who told you that?
A: Well, just simply the fact that people were removed. No one told me specifically.
Q: Well, so you told the Senate everyone was gone, but you may have been misled. Is that what you're saying?
A: I may have been mistaken or misled.
Q: By who?
A: I believe that is correct.
Q: Who told you everybody culpable is gone?
A: No -- no one told me.
Q: You just assumed that?
A: I just assumed it.
More testimony where Garland admits to making public statements that he has no factual basis to make.
Q: You've made the statement that what Baylor did in this investigation was unprecedented. Do you know that to be true?
A: I do not know that to be true.
Q: So why did you say that?
A: I -- I was not fully aware of what happened elsewhere. I did believe that what Baylor had done in the exhaustive recommendations, 105, were very significant and also publishing these as a measure of transparency.
Garland is being asked whether he tried to find out who the administrators were who discouraged victims from making sexual assault complaints as stated in the BOR Findings of Fact. He says this:
Q. As President of Baylor University, are you interested in finding out who the other administrators were who directly discouraged rape victims from reporting their assaults?
A. I only know of one case where that --
Q. Are you interested in determining who the other people are?
A. I don't know how to determine who those are.
Q. How about asking someone a question, "Who is it?"
A. I --
Q. Is that -- is that too much for you to do?
MS. BROWN: Objection, form.
BY MR. DUNNAM:
Q. Is that too much for you to do?
A. You know, my -- I just don't know who it could be, and I don't -- and I've had other responsibilities
than looking and reinvestigating the investigation.
Q. Are you deliberately making the decision not to ask that question? Have you made a deliberate decision not to say "Who's the other --" that's a conscious decision you've made, right?
A. I've not -- I've not been concerned about this issue.
Q. All right. And have you thought about it?
A. No, I've not.
Q. Well, can you think about it right now? Do you think it's a good thing for you to find out?
A. I'm leaving the office of President; so it will not be under my responsibility to find out.
This is pretty astonishing testimony from Garland about his lies to the Texas Senate Higher Education Committee:
Q: Well, you told the Texas Senate that everyone culpable for these failures were no longer at Baylor. Do you recall that?
A: I do recall that.
Q: So how do you know that to be true, if you don't know who the senior leadership is that were the ones that did not provide the institutional support or proper engagement? How do you know that to be true, what you told the Texas Senate?
A: Well, I may have been misled, but I understood that personnel decisions were evaluated, and those persons were removed.
Q: Who told you that?
A: Well, just simply the fact that people were removed. No one told me specifically.
Q: Well, so you told the Senate everyone was gone, but you may have been misled. Is that what you're saying?
A: I may have been mistaken or misled.
Q: By who?
A: I believe that is correct.
Q: Who told you everybody culpable is gone?
A: No -- no one told me.
Q: You just assumed that?
A: I just assumed it.
More testimony where Garland admits to making public statements that he has no factual basis to make.
Q: You've made the statement that what Baylor did in this investigation was unprecedented. Do you know that to be true?
A: I do not know that to be true.
Q: So why did you say that?
A: I -- I was not fully aware of what happened elsewhere. I did believe that what Baylor had done in the exhaustive recommendations, 105, were very significant and also publishing these as a measure of transparency.
Garland is being asked whether he tried to find out who the administrators were who discouraged victims from making sexual assault complaints as stated in the BOR Findings of Fact. He says this:
Q. As President of Baylor University, are you interested in finding out who the other administrators were who directly discouraged rape victims from reporting their assaults?
A. I only know of one case where that --
Q. Are you interested in determining who the other people are?
A. I don't know how to determine who those are.
Q. How about asking someone a question, "Who is it?"
A. I --
Q. Is that -- is that too much for you to do?
MS. BROWN: Objection, form.
BY MR. DUNNAM:
Q. Is that too much for you to do?
A. You know, my -- I just don't know who it could be, and I don't -- and I've had other responsibilities
than looking and reinvestigating the investigation.
Q. Are you deliberately making the decision not to ask that question? Have you made a deliberate decision not to say "Who's the other --" that's a conscious decision you've made, right?
A. I've not -- I've not been concerned about this issue.
Q. All right. And have you thought about it?
A. No, I've not.
Q. Well, can you think about it right now? Do you think it's a good thing for you to find out?
A. I'm leaving the office of President; so it will not be under my responsibility to find out.
Ron Swanson
Full Member
Who is the person asking the questions? I want to shake his/her hand.
Didn't let him off the hook
RollToad
Baylor is Trash.
What a piece of [ Finebaum ].
PurplFrawg
Administrator
He's an attorney from Waco named Jim Dunnam. He's representing several of the young women (Jane Doe) in the lawsuit. This is some great reading...pick any page and read his amazing line of questioning vs the former Baylor prez.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3866265-David-Garland-Deposition.html
The deposition starts after the 7 page "Plaintiffs' Reply."
Frogcrates
Active Member
It's what a real lawyer sounds like asking probative questions. we get ruined by our terrible reporters that don't know how to intelligently question someone. All gotcha [ deposit from a bull that looks like Art Briles ].
Boonescabanaboy
Active Member
Big Frog II
Active Member
That University is and has been run by a bunch of lying fools. No one admits to guilt. No one makes sure that the right thing is being done. Why in this world would anyone want to attend a University with such inept leadership? I would be embarrassed to admit that I had gone there if I were a Baylor Alum.
BaylorTears never end, and should never drop to page 2.
So I went to TCU orientation yesterday with my oldest. Very impressive. You know one thing that was discussed in detail? The resources available to support the students for various bad things that can happen while you are a student. Explicitly if you have issues with drugs, alcohol, mental health or are the victim of a sexual assault. Very open and up front.
So I went to TCU orientation yesterday with my oldest. Very impressive. You know one thing that was discussed in detail? The resources available to support the students for various bad things that can happen while you are a student. Explicitly if you have issues with drugs, alcohol, mental health or are the victim of a sexual assault. Very open and up front.
Kappa Frog
Active Member
I believe the above post should ask, by whom? Not who. This is my takeaway...
No seriously. As a woman, I am horrified that a rape case is not taken seriously-at any time. God bless those women for having the courage to face these demons and tell their story time and time again.
Kappa Frog
Active Member
As a mom of two boys-16 and 19, I have had candid conversations w them about when a girl says no. And more importantly, how they need to be an advocate for those who can't voice that. The oldest is in college and a member of a Frat and we completely support this. I love when he tells me they have code words for shutting off alcohol to girls and guys and they have taken "classes" in protection against alcohol poisoning, etc. I would never have thought I would have to tell my boys that when a girl can't speak for herself, you need to be protective and find help. You cannot allow others to take advantage of her. This is the world we live in and damn, I hope I have educated and had those conversations that were way beyond awkward in order to protect not only girls, but young men who have had too much to drink.
Ok-rant over.
Ok-rant over.
TxFrog1999
The Man Behind The Curtain
No means no has been around for a while, the bigger issue facing men on college campuses these days is knowing when yes means yes, and not some tepid approval that will later turn into a regret and an allegation of sexual assault.
PurplFrawg
Administrator
This thread needs to be higher that a stealth dorm rehash...
Phil Ken Sebben
Active Member
The crime of rape viewed only from a academic standpoint is fascinating. Rape is extremely difficult to prove if the victim does not seek help quickly. Additionally, rape is made more difficult to prove by the hook-up culture. If a pair of youths have sexual relations on Tuesday and then Wednesday of the following week the woman reports the relations as being rape there is almost no way to prove whether there was consent at the time of intercourse.
Furthermore, the fact that consent cannot (in many states) be given while a person is intoxicated (http://reason.com/blog/2017/04/17/joe-biden-says-all-drunk-sex-is-rape-i / https://www.rainn.org/articles/legal-role-consent) makes a significant number of college hook ups technically rape. As a result proving rape is quite difficult given the 'free sex' and drunken hookup cultures which is pervasive among many college students.
Complicating the matter further is that many people, young women especially, will make false accusations. While there are no statistics on how many consensual sexual encounters have been reported as rape after the fact, there are statistics on how many completely false accusations have been proven. According to multiple studies 2 to 10 percent of allegations at proved false. (http://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf) That is that the police prove "no crime was committed or attempted." In cases of consensual sex being reported as rape the case would almost certainly not be reported as a false accusation. Thus we may infer that the number of false reports is likely substantially higher than 2%-10% if cases where there was sex as these cases cannot be proved false. This relates back to the fact that you cannot prove a negative. That you cannot prove that a crime did not happen or was not committed.
So it is a difficult position for young men. How can you be sure that you won't be accused of rape? Well the best way is to not have sex. If you do have sex then make sure that she is sober and it is clearly consensual. Maybe you should get her to sign a consent form. ()
On a happier note, the US Department of Justice reports that rape and sexual assault among college age women who are students is only 6.1 per 1,000. (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf) That means only .61% of women will be the victim of a threat, sexual assault, attempted rape, or completed rape. That's still too high, but it's an awfully lot better than the 1 in 5 statistic which we occasionally hear.
P.S. I do believe that Baylor has had a significant number of rapes and sexual assaults and that it is likely that many of the accused players are guilty as charged.
gohornedfrogs
Tier 1
Redundant.
CountryFrog
Active Member
The issue of women making false claims always gets way overblown, imo. I think far more actual rapes go unreported than there are false claims. And then there is the issue of true claims that end up with no charges being filed or not enough evidence to convict. These are MUCH larger issues than false rape claims.
False claims do exist, and I don't mean to minimize them because women who are proven to have made false claims should be punished. I just roll my eyes a little any and every time it's brought because it's a very convenient excuse for anyone who doesn't want to be made uncomfortable by the unfortunate truth that these things are going unpunished far too often for a variety of reasons.
False claims do exist, and I don't mean to minimize them because women who are proven to have made false claims should be punished. I just roll my eyes a little any and every time it's brought because it's a very convenient excuse for anyone who doesn't want to be made uncomfortable by the unfortunate truth that these things are going unpunished far too often for a variety of reasons.
Phil Ken Sebben
Active Member
You are right that claims go unreported at a concerning rate. According to DOJ statistics only 20% of college aged victims who are students report rape and sexual assault. (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf) The percent of college age victims who are not students who report is still only 32%. We definitely need to improve these numbers and get the victims to report much more quickly. This would increase the number of rapes and sexual assaults which can be proved.
EDIT: While I agree that sometimes false accusations may be overblown, I think that this is an area of the law where there should be slightly more concern of false accusations than most other areas. I always remember what Sir Matthew Hale, Lord Chief Justice of the King’s Bench, said: "It is true rape is a most detestable crime, and therefore ought severely and impartially to be punished with death; but it must be remembered that it is an accusation easily to be made and hard to be proved, and harder to be defended by the party accused, tho ever so innocent."
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