Will we increase the size of AGC

[boonecountyman]

"There's a decent amount of buzz around Fort Worth about the Big East from non-TCU people. I know a few folks who went and bought basketball season tickets the day the announcement was made just because they wanted to be sure to have good seats once the Big East teams start coming to Fort Worth"

Thanks for giving the BE basketball props.I don't think you'll see many bad BE teams come to FW.

 

[**His Purple Majesty**]

Being an AQ will draw in alot of the casual college football fans. Most of my Big12 friends who live in DFW have said they want to come to a game or two once we start playing in the BE. I tried like hell to get them to come check us out before and most wouldn't even consider it. I think we'll be amazed at what ditching the non-aq stigma will do for attendance.

 

[Horned Toad]

We could reduce the number of entrance tunnels. I don't think anyone thought this was a huge deal at the RB h34r: .

Man that sucked. Went to the restroom at the end of the first half from row 76 (next to top row) and got down to the tunnel about the time TCU's band went off the field and Wisky's was coming on. Go back up the ramp just before Luke ran in the final touchdown. Total time to pee, 35 minutes.

 

[Houston Frog]

Thanks for giving the BE basketball props.I don't think you'll see many bad BE teams come to FW.

Yeah we'll be the ones supplying the bad basketball around here, thank you very much

 

[Dogfrog]

So you don't think we will grow our attendance. You don't think the trend from 32K to 42K will go to 46K and eventually 50K if there are that many seats. You don't think that having a state of the art stadium, being in an AQ conference with traditional football teams from the populous North East, and playing LSU, Arkansas, OU, Tech, Virginia, a Rose Bowl championship, higher ranked recruit classes, and playing for a BCS birth or chance at a National Championship birth annually will increase our average attendance to 48-50K a year?

I think you are short sighted. I think they are going to build this thing to hold 50K and are in the process of doing that now. The money has already been raised. That is what I think. Guess we'll see what happens.

I don't think anybody's saying growth won't happen. What I'm suggesting is that TCU has the luxury to wait until the growth actually materializes before pulling the trigger on the expansion, and it can happen quickly. Since the last TCU expansion in the 50's, TCU had one sellout (vs. UT) prior to the recent run. That overcapacity has haunted TCU for years, particularly in pricing. They now can control all that, and will. Remember TCU just experienced its greatest season since 1938, went 25-1 over two seasons, and averaged 42K home attendance.

 

[angelo's frog]

I would not go over 44-45k seats unless we were in the Big 12 or SEC. I would rather have it full every week than full once or twice a year and have 5-8k seats empty most other games. With the move to the Big East and hopefully some better overall competition (although that is debatable IMO) and name recognition plus 3 sold years of top 10 finishes, I think we could hit 44-45k five or six times a year. 50k not so much. However, if we were in the Big 12 or SEC, I think we could go to 55k and sell out every game.

And, Saturday night games will help attendance tremendously. I think we would've had one more sellout this year if BYU had been a night game.

 

[micahjh]

I guess that is what I disagree with. Why are Syracuse and Cincy suddenly going to start bringing fans? I don't think any BE school will bring as many fans as BYU did.

There may not be any BE school that brings more than BYU did, but I think the average will be much higher because the other schools will bring more than say SDSU for example. If you look at the home attendance for the Big East teams, it is substantially higher than the MWC on average. So, its a pretty safe assumption that fact will translate into bigger away crowds on average. Again, not like we are going to start averaging 10,000+ away fans every home game, but if we average maybe 3,000 now (with BYU/Utah carrying the weight of the average) then averaging 5,000 away fans would be a nice bump. Not anything to get too worked up over, but still nice to have.

 

[micahjh]

I have always felt this way also, but am starting to think that TCU is rewriting the script on attendance as we speak. People love a winner, and with the staff staying in place and the program being perennial top 10, a brand new shiny stadium, a new conference, etc, it could very well be that 45,000 plus is the new norm for attendance. If 47,000 come to regular games, then it wont look empty in a 50,000 seat stadium.

 

[boonecountyman]

There may not be any BE school that brings more than BYU did, but I think the average will be much higher because the other schools will bring more than say SDSU for example. If you look at the home attendance for the Big East teams, it is substantially higher than the MWC on average. So, its a pretty safe assumption that fact will translate into bigger away crowds on average. Again, not like we are going to start averaging 10,000+ away fans every home game, but if we average maybe 3,000 now (with BYU/Utah carrying the weight of the average) then averaging 5,000 away fans would be a nice bump. Not anything to get too worked up over, but still nice to have.

I believe WVU took 5000 to Colorado for a thursday nite game.

 

[Duquesne Frog]

I can't believe my (and PurplePutt's) idea to turn the new ACS into a Thunderdome is not getting more traction ...

 

[froginaustin]

I believe WVU took 5000 to Colorado for a thursday nite game.

My guess is that WVU will bring a bunch of people when they visit. Maybe Looieville, too.

Most of the other BE schools-- maybe Cincy, Rutgers, 'Cuse, USF-- not so many. Particularly if they (or TCU, I suppose) aren't having a good year.

I understand that the new east stands should be quickly expandable when/if needed. I would hate to overbuild now, and miss a chance to stimulate ticket demand and price through a measured amount of scarcity.

 

[bscttyb]

Make it big! Keep the cost down for poor folk like me!

 

[micahjh]

Here are home attendence figures for 2009, which was not a great year for the Big East, while the MWC hosted Gameday twice.


MWC ----- Big East

BYU - 64,236----- WVU - 57, 317
Utah - 45,155 ----- Pitt - 53,446
TCU - 38,107 ----- USF - 52,553
AFA - 35,686 ----- Rutgers - 49,113
NM - 27,982 ----- Syracuse - 39,043
SDSU - 24,464 ----- UConn - 38,229
CSU - 23,643 ----- Cincy - 33,957
UNLV - 22,975 ----- Louisville - 32,450
WYO - 19,945

Average : 33,577 ----- Average : 44,513


So, in '09 Louisville had the worst attendance in the BE, but it was still more than over half the teams in the MWC. BYU still had the best attendence. Utah was 2nd in the MWC but would have been 5th in the BE. TCUs '09 attendence was 3rd in the MWC, but would have ranked 7th out 9 in the BE.

What this tells me is that there is no way that we dont see at least a slight increase in away fans at AGC once TCU is in the BE. The novelity of TCU, the new stadium, the perennial ranking, the greatness of Ft Worth, etc all point to better away crowds as well. But the fact that the average BE home game has 11,000 more people in attendance than the average MWC home game, almost requires there to be at least a couple of thousand extra away fans at ACG, on average, once TCU is in the BE.

 

[PurplePutt]

Here are home attendence figures for 2009, which was not a great year for the Big East, while the MWC hosted Gameday twice.


MWC ----- Big East

BYU - 64,236----- WVU - 57, 317
Utah - 45,155 ----- Pitt - 53,446
TCU - 38,107 ----- USF - 52,553
AFA - 35,686 ----- Rutgers - 49,113
NM - 27,982 ----- Syracuse - 39,043
SDSU - 24,464 ----- UConn - 38,229
CSU - 23,643 ----- Cincy - 33,957
UNLV - 22,975 ----- Louisville - 32,450
WYO - 19,945

Average : 33,577 ----- Average : 44,513


So, in '09 Louisville had the worst attendance in the BE, but it was still more than over half the teams in the MWC. BYU still had the best attendence. Utah was 2nd in the MWC but would have been 5th in the BE. TCUs '09 attendence was 3rd in the MWC, but would have ranked 7th out 9 in the BE.

What this tells me is that there is no way that we dont see at least a slight increase in away fans at AGC once TCU is in the BE. The novelity of TCU, the new stadium, the perennial ranking, the greatness of Ft Worth, etc all point to better away crowds as well. But the fact that the average BE home game has 11,000 more people in attendance than the average MWC home game, almost requires there to be at least a couple of thousand extra away fans at ACG, on average, once TCU is in the BE.

Why don't you use the 2010 numbers. Louisville averaged over 50K in 2010.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Internet/attendance/FBS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

 

[Mr. Uy]

I have a very good source that told me the east side is going to be a basic facelift (seats and facade) for this go round, but the future holds a larger renovation. One thing they do want to do is finish out the corner roundout (similar to how the west side will meet the north) between the east and north sides. I also learned the old scoreboad is comprised of four pieces, which have been disassembled and will be put on the field near the corners of each endzone to serve as likely advertisement space.

 

[micahjh]

Why don't you use the 2010 numbers. Louisville averaged over 50K in 2010.

http://web1.ncaa.org...GATTENDANCE.pdf

Thanks. I couldnt find 2010 numbers broken down by conference. But I went ahead and compiled em from here



Mountain West -----Big East

BYU - 61,381-----WVU - 56,325
Utah - 45,549-----Pitt - 52,165
TCU - 42,466-----Lville - 50,648
AFA - 40,093-----RU- 47,013
SDSU - 34,133-----USF - 40,849
CSU - 22,400 ----- SU - 40,064
NM - 20,888 ----- UConn - 38,248
WYO - 20,791-----Cincy - 35,067
UNLV - 20,612

Avg - 32,167 ----- 45,047

So the gap actually widened this year. almost 13,000 extra people on average per game in the BE. Louisville avg attendance up over 18,000 from last year!?!? Thats over 50%! Amazing. SDSU avg went up about 10,000 or 40%.

 

[InterestedObserver]

I don't have the stats, but some of you are much better at gathering info than I am. I wonder what the average enrollements are in the Big East versus the MWC. I would think that the Big East schools would be larger, but that might not be the case.

With DFW being one of the few growth areas of the US in recent years with much of that movement coming from the north and northeast, you'd think that Big East schools would have many followers that have ended up nearby. Most of the MWC schools are also located in areas of increase, but almost all of the Big East is located in areas of decline.

Probably just a drop in the bucket, but it seems there are alot of "drops" as it relates to the Big East. All of them added up could be substantial.

 

[Duquesne Frog]

I wonder what the average enrollements are in the Big East versus the MWC. I would think that the Big East schools would be larger, but that might not be the case.

Not the case ...

Big East:
University of Cincinnati[sup][14][/sup] 29,824
University of Connecticut[sup][15][/sup] 20,846
DePaul University 16,199
Georgetown University 7,092
University of Louisville[sup][16][/sup] 15,125
Marquette University 8,012
University of Notre Dame 8,371
University of Pittsburgh 17,427
Providence College 3,850
Rutgers University 28,031
St. John's University 14,983
Seton Hall University 5,245
University of South Florida 36,358
Syracuse University 13,736
Villanova University 6,335
West Virginia University[sup][17][/sup] 22,303

Average for football schools: 22,956

Mountain West:

United States Air Force Academy 4,417
Brigham Young University 32,955
Colorado State University 24,875
University of New Mexico 34,674
San Diego State University 33,790
Texas Christian University 8,696
University of Nevada, Las Vegas 29,069
University of Utah 28,211
University of Wyoming 12,496
Average (even if you include TCU and the AFA): 23,242

Future MWC adds:
Boise State University 19,993
California State University, Fresno 25,613
University of Hawaii at Manoa 20,135
University of Nevada, Reno 16,867

 

[OmniscienceFrog]

Eh, they weren't that much more interested in Louisville and Cincy when we were in the same conference as them before.

So Pitt/WVU will be kinda like BYU/Utah. How much bigger should we go for 1 big game a year?

All that is irrelevant. They certainly won't be any less interested in those teams. When you finally get your attendance average up to more than 40,000 you don't reduce your capacity to 40,000.

 

[gdu]

All that is irrelevant. They certainly won't be any less interested in those teams. When you finally get your attendance average up to more than 40,000 you don't reduce your capacity to 40,000.

Which is why I never said we should reduce it to 40,000. I also don't think we should build it to 50-55k just because that many might show up for one game. That brings that same problems our former size stadium had for so many years.