1. The KillerFrogs

We don't agree on much

Discussion in 'Scott Nix Frog Fan Forum' started by BeYou, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. but one thing we do agree on is that its great to have college football back.

    Good luck tomorrow Frogs. Hope you enjoy your time in Waco regardless of the outcome of the game.
  2. Thanks. I hope the Frogs get out with a win but I hope you guys beat the dog&^%* our of the Horns and Ags.
  3. Oh...I suspect we agree on a lot. Just not the kind of stuff that gets talked about on college message boards. See you tomorrow. Please turn the AC up high. Plus what Angelo's Frog said.
  4. Couldn't agree more. So much good clean hate... but hope y'all have as much fun in Waco as I have at TCU games. They're not the nazis they used to be about drinking at tailgates, or you can go to the George's tent.

    Look, I've explained a bajillion times that back in the day Ann Richards had nothing to do with it... Baylor earned it. But TCU's my adopted hometown team. We live a couple blocks away, even had season tickets 2 yrs ago because my wife went there and our son loves going to the games so much (gave it up with the new baby) and I'll root for them every game but one each year TCU plays Baylor.

    I will say this- you can be assured that any Baylor fans are not fair-weather band-wagon fans, and I hope they treat you better and with more class than TCU exhibits toward Baylor.

    I hope somehow Baylor and TCU wind up playing every year in the coming conference shuffle- at one point it was one of the top ten most played rivalries in all of college football, dating back 100 years, and the schools are natural rivals for so many reasons... the recent bad blood just adds to it.

    So for this week... Sic Em Bears!

    Before too long, we'll be back to Amon Carter- drinking wine out of plastic cups at tailgate parties without looking over our shoulder, visiting Frog Alley getting cotton candy, then watching the Frogs demolish Portland St. (at 1:00?!) and trying to talk the little ones into behaving until at least the 3rd quarter before walking home.
  5. Except for this game, good luck the rest of the season. I really would love to see you guys beat UT, A&M, and Tech. All three of them in some way represent what is wrong with college sports. I actually respect you guys a great deal more than them. At least you guys are willing to man up and play us and not back away from the contract given how strong TCU has been in the last few years. The very fact that you were willing to do that takes some guts. Given that, I would not oppose you guys getting a Big East invite if the Big 12 falls apart. Right now, I am not sure I could say the same thing for Tech even they would bring more to the conference than Baylor.
  6. I really appreciate your comments and sportsmanship, and I wasn't going to comment on the Big 12 history, but you had to bring it up. Baylor and Tech fans are the only ones in the world who actually believe this manufactured drivel. More objective sources say differently...

    AUSTIN - Did political pressure come to bear in the Big Eight's decision to invite Texas Tech and Baylor universities to join two others in a newly formed alliance that could all but doom the Southwest Conference?

    The politicians say no. But Baylor President Herb Reynolds, when handing out thanks yesterday that the university was included, credited the politicians anyway.

    "When it became apparent to us that this was the thing we had to achieve, obviously we were going to look to the people that can help make a difference to bring this about," Reynolds said.
    He also thanked Lt. Gov. Bob Bullock, referring to him as "a very loyal Baylor alumnus" who was "very helpful to us."

    "We're very grateful to all of these folks," Reynolds said.
    Although Texas and Texas A&M long had been rumored to be shopping for a new conference in which to play, the inclusion of Baylor and Tech in the merger - while other Southwest Conference schools were left out - has raised intense speculation that politics may have played a role.
    A Bullock spokeswoman said that Bullock met with UT and A&M officials Monday. Also at the meeting were Montford, who represented Tech, and state Sen. David Sibley, R-Waco, who represented Baylor, she said.
    In August 1990, lawmakers sprang into action and threatened to slash state funding to Texas and Texas A&M when rumors circulated that the two schools were considering moves to the Pacific 10 and Southeast conferences.

    According to published reports, Montford was one of the first lawmakers to suggest that the Legislature get involved.

    One political source said yesterday that UT and A&M officials remembered the 1990 situation and feared a similar backlash if they accepted a deal that left Tech and Baylor behind.

    "It was very important to the success of this drill that Baylor and Tech be in it," the source said. "Politics does enter into these things. It is who you are associated with and your status as a university."
    Fort Worth Star-Telegram, February 24, 1994

    But before the Big 12 could form, politicians in Austin, Texas, would have plenty to say about who would wear the new logo.

    Texas and Texas A&M were locks to be merged into the Big 12. But the SWC's other schools – Texas Tech, Baylor, Texas Christian, Houston, Southern Methodist and Rice – were not, and players in Texas state politics tried to include almost endless combinations of those six in the new deal. Arkansas bolted the SWC for the Southeastern Conference before the breakup of the SWC.

    Texas Tech found its way to the Big 12, and SWC veterans say TCU had the other slot until the last minute, when then-governor Ann Richards and key colleagues in the state's House of Representatives, all Baylor graduates, gave Texas and Texas A&M an offer they couldn't refuse: dump TCU for Baylor or possibly lose state funding.
    Denver Post, July 1, 2000

    In 1994 the Southeastern Conference broke away from the College Football Association's television deal and agreed to an exclusive package with CBS. Consequently, collegiate athletic conferences had to negotiate separate deals.

    "The only way to get leverage was to build a conference that was absolutely middle American," Texas Athletic Director DeLoss Dodds said.

    With vast alumni bases in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio, the University of Texas and Texas A&M were key figures in the merger. The question was which other SWC teams would join them.

    Texas Christian had facilities. Southern Methodist had history. Houston had success, having won or shared five SWC football championships and having played in three NCAA basketball Final Fours.

    But Baylor and Texas Tech had political clout. At the time, Baylor alumni were at the top of state government: Ann Richards was governor and the late Bob Bullock was lieutenant governor.

    Several state legislative committees were chaired by politicians with ties to Texas Tech, and threats surfaced of reduced funding to Texas and A&M if Baylor and Tech were not included.

    "That's the point where the politics of it came in," said State Sen. David Sibley, R-Waco, a Baylor alumnus. "If the breakup had occurred two years earlier when the lieutenant governor (Bill Hobby) was from Houston with strong ties to UH and the speaker of the House (Gib Lewis) was a TCU alumnus, things might have been different."
    Austin American-Statesman, November 2, 2001

    That Baylor is even in the Big 12 is an accident of politics. If Baylor grads Ann Richards and Bob Bullock hadn't been Governor and Lt. Governor, respectively, in 1994 when Texas and Texas A&M decided to jailbreak out of the Southwest Conference and merge with the Big Eight, Baylor never would have been invited.
    ESPN, November 6, 2002

    "Baylor is the only private institution in the Big 12, and that's no coincidence," former Big Eight Commissioner Chuck Neinas said. "Without Richards and Bullock, Baylor had no chance."
    Charlotte Observer, May 8, 2003

    Look, I have no problem with Baylor and Tech using political muscle to get into the Big 12. Given the opportunity, TCU would have done the same. But I do object to this Baylor fairy story that politics wasn't the deciding factor -- that Baylor "earned it." That simply isn't true by any stretch of the imagination.
  7. ThankS "Be You" and good luck tomorrow. I'm of the opinion that getting the shaft was the best thing that ever happened to TCU 15 to 20 years ago. It became fish or cut bait time and we got incredibly lucky with a pant-hiking crazy man who has taken us to places no one would have ever imagined. I pull for Baylor when they're not playing TCU and loved it when you beat Texas in Austin last year. Hope you guys finish out the year strong and I really have no idea what to expect tomorrow night.
  8. dammit... I was so trying to be nice Deep Purple. But you wanna do this?

    that's quite a bit of research you did in the few minutes since I posted that.

    I said that I had explained that Ann Richards had nothing to do with it, and she didn't. She and Baylor never got along. Baylor's kinda conservative, you see. Heck there was a major to-do about whether to give Jimmy Carter, the 1st Southern Baptist president an honorary doctorate because he was a little too liberal, even way back when. Ann Richards was a little to the left of him. The one objective piece of journalism you cite that mentions Ann Richards as having any active role in it is the hometown startle-gram... that bastion of journalism that just today quoted baylorfans.com posters in an actual newspaper article.

    I too have read much about those days, and the best newspaper article was a long form feature in the San Antonio Express News from a few years back. It's no longer online but is copied and pasted in it's entirety here:
    and partially quoted here:

    Basically Bob Bullock had more to do with it than anyone, and although he grew up in Hillsboro and went to Baylor Law School, his loyalty was to Texas Tech. David Sibley, then a very junior Senator from Waco, had something to do with it too, but in order to get Tech included, Baylor was thrown in too, because Baylor had earned it to a greater extent than had Tech.

    It's not a "fairy story" Baylor did actually earn it. Here's another objective source: http://www.thompsonian.info/SWC.html
    It shows that in the ten football seasons prior to the Big XII invite (the formal invitation was made in February 1994) Baylor had the second highest win total in the SWC. (Arkansas was gone in 1989, I think-they're under a different part of that website)
    Win totals (1984-1993):
    A&M = 95
    BU = 66
    UT = 64
    TTU = 56
    UH = 50
    TCU = 40
    Rice = 35
    SMU = 29

    If you look at it from a shorter term perspective (1990-1993) Baylor is still near the top.
    Win totals:
    A&M = 41
    UT = 28
    BU = 26
    TTU = 21
    Rice = 21
    UH = 19
    TCU = 18
    SMU = 9

    If you look at from a longer term history (1978-1993) win totals are:
    A&M = 130
    UT = 119
    BU = 103
    UH = 93
    TTU = 79
    SMU = 77
    TCU = 51
    Rice = 48

    Also remember that SMU didn't play for a couple of those years, and that Baylor and Rice were the only schools not on some form of NCAA probation. It's late and I don't feel like looking up attendance figures, but that was another factor in Baylor's favor. At the time, Baylor was roughly the size of TCU and SMU combined.If Bullock wanted to include Tech, he needed to include Baylor in order for it to seem legit.

    There's no question that politics had something to do with it. I'm sure if they could have at the time, TCU would have used any political leverage they had to their advantage. I think in retrospect TCU fans would agree that in the long run, wandering the conferences wasteland was the key to eventually finding the promised land... That's one of the things I admire about TCU and why I root for them. But to say that Ann Richards had anything to do with it, or say that Baylor didn't earn it is flat out wrong.

    Next week, I'll cheer for you. For tomorrow though, Deep Purple just confirmed the chip-on-their-shoulder little man stereotype, and I sure hope the lizards get mauled.
  9. I agree that TCU agrees that wanderng the conference wasteland was a wakeup call that led to us building a nationally respected program. Does baylor agree that having politicians get them into a conference that did not want them lead to years of futility and wasted opportunity and an entitlement attitude of collecting the big checks they do nothing to earn?
  10. So you must agree that Baylor does not deserve BCS conference affiliation during the next realignment, correct?

  11. Only an idiot believes that only "deserving schools" get into the Big12 OR the BCS. That's a myth manufactured by those who run both.

    Money and politics determine who gets in (or not). We tried to do it to you (Windegger was supposed to be in on the meeting), but you managed to elbow us out because of Austin clout. No shame in that. But don't think you were included because you were considered a "must have" for the Big8/Big12. That's just delusional.
  12. Baylor sucks and I hope we whip the piss out of their team tonight. Enjoy the C-USA, because you earned it.
  13. Baylor - I hope you lose every game this season. I may root for you against aTm. That would be the only acceptable win and even then I would be conflicted. I hope to see you relegated to a non-BCS conference, and your athletic program go down the tubes after funding gets sliced by 75%. I hope it impacts your mens and women's tennis team so you can stop bragging about their accomplishments. I hope you realize one day that you are in Waco, which you've somehow made into a complete dump like Lubbock, despite not being in the middle of west Texas. In fact, Waco is in the Texas Core Triangle and it still sucks. I hope it translates to even worse admission standards, and you have to send out even more acceptance letters to people who didn't even apply. These are things I hope for.
  14. Ann Richards had something to do with it, and Baylor did not earn it, any more than the other little sisters of the old SWC did.

    Fact is, we (TCU, Baylor, SMU, Rice, UH, Tech) were all disposable, but political pressure enabled tt and Baylor to continue their lucrative roles as season fodder for the powerhouse teams.

    TCU and others were forced onto a different path, which has been a very good thing for TCU, due to institutional commitment to excellence, rather than institutional commitment to staus quo.
  15. This.

    Good luck Bears.

  16. A fan page is objective (which shows stats already known but doesn't really prove anything), but a half dozen newspaper accounts from all over the country aren't.

    Love that logic......
  17. we will never forget what happened... little did we know it was the best thing that would ever happen to TCU, tonight we play to prove it once again and there's nothing any Baylor Law grad can do about it
  18. exactly how I feel too, they don't respect TCU so why should we have any for them

  19. +1

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