TCU Golf 2021-2022

[gohornedfrogs]

Greg pretty heavily relies on foreign kids as well. Out of his top 6 it looks like 3 are US kids and 3 are international. New facilities definitely help.

(Once again, I don’t care where any player comes from. Coaches responsibility is to get the best player they can no matter who that is BUT that’s been a criticism levied at our current regime so I bring it up)

I'm with you on the foreign players. I don't get the criticism. The coach's job is to find the best players available and give them every opportunity to improve. It doesn't matter where they come from. To that end, I give Montigel credit for looking outside of Texas. Even early on, he went to Connecticut to get JJ, North Dakota to get Hoge, and then began looking abroad. I remember having a conversation with him about 15 years ago about the quality of northern players and how their potential was untapped because they weren't able to play/compete as much.

When you go back and look at rosters in the 70s and 80s for the powerhouse teams like Houston and Texas, you'll see plenty of foreign players. Faldo was recruited to Houston, but only played a semester. Elkington was an All-America. Steen Tinning at Texas. Colin Montgomerie at Houston Baptist. Arkansas had several South Africans in the 80s and 90s. TCU had a South African player in the 80s. This is nothing new.

Ludvig Aberg and Sandy Scott for Tech are two of the best amateurs in the world -- who wouldn't want those guys on their team? It's just reality that the rest of the world is producing outstanding golfers at a much higher rate than in the past, and they want to come to America to attend college.

 

[FrogBall09]

I'm with you on the foreign players. I don't get the criticism. The coach's job is to find the best players available and give them every opportunity to improve. It doesn't matter where they come from. To that end, I give Montigel credit for looking outside of Texas. Even early on, he went to Connecticut to get JJ, North Dakota to get Hoge, and then began looking abroad. I remember having a conversation with him about 15 years ago about the quality of northern players and how their potential was untapped because they weren't able to play/compete as much.

When you go back and look at rosters in the 70s and 80s for the powerhouse teams like Houston and Texas, you'll see plenty of foreign players. Faldo was recruited to Houston, but only played a semester. Elkington was an All-America. Steen Tinning at Texas. Colin Montgomerie at Houston Baptist. Arkansas had several South Africans in the 80s and 90s. TCU had a South African player in the 80s. This is nothing new.

Ludvig Aberg and Sandy Scott for Tech are two of the best amateurs in the world -- who wouldn't want those guys on their team? It's just reality that the rest of the world is producing outstanding golfers at a much higher rate than in the past, and they want to come to America to attend college.

I don't think the complaint is that he gets foreign players or looks outside Texas - I think the general complaint is he does not look inside the state enough. There have been several high profile players from Texas that stated they were never even contacted by anyone from TCU about playing here and a few stated they would have been interested....

There is also a perspective that when we do get a local kid - they are often passed over for the foreign players because of the playing time promises made to the Europeans to get them to come. Last year it seemed to be happening for sure - especially when we played a kid that had decommitted already vs giving the local kid a chance to shine - and it proved to be a bad decision.

 

[First Tee Frog]

I don't think the complaint is that he gets foreign players or looks outside Texas - I think the general complaint is he does not look inside the state enough. There have been several high profile players from Texas that stated they were never even contacted by anyone from TCU about playing here and a few stated they would have been interested....

There is also a perspective that when we do get a local kid - they are often passed over for the foreign players because of the playing time promises made to the Europeans to get them to come. Last year it seemed to be happening for sure - especially when we played a kid that had decommitted already vs giving the local kid a chance to shine - and it proved to be a bad decision.

Those are all fair criticism’s. I’ve heard some people say flat out that the scholarships should be used on American players and not on foreign. That I have a problem with. The way you stated said argument is all very valid discussion.

 

[JogginFrog]

We seem to worry--or think that our players worry--about playing time. I'm sure they do to an extent. But what @First Tee Frog pointed out about OU speaks to a different issue. OU's and OSU's ability to stockpile talent means that a lot of good players are sitting the bench at those programs and seem content to forego playing opportunities elsewhere. That means those coaches are successfully making the case that players will be better prepared for the next level by attending those schools regardless of whether they get starts or not. They are selling development first, culture second (You want to be great? Hang around greatness), and playing time third. And they are probably right.

That's a killer for programs like TCU. In the portal era, coaches count on the talent pool spreading itself around to match playing opportunities. You expect that the 7th-best guy at a top program would prefer to be the 2nd-best guy at another program to get more starts. But that is less true in golf because there's no draft and plenty of summer opportunities to get starts. College really is about development. Facilities and culture are important not only to attract talent but because they actually help that talent to improve.

I'm encouraged when I hear former TCU players speak well of the program, like James Hart du Preez did recently, because it says that TCU helped them develop. But when a player would rather sit the bench in Norman or Stillwater than play at TCU, that's a problem.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

I don't think the complaint is that he gets foreign players or looks outside Texas - I think the general complaint is he does not look inside the state enough. There have been several high profile players from Texas that stated they were never even contacted by anyone from TCU about playing here and a few stated they would have been interested....

There is also a perspective that when we do get a local kid - they are often passed over for the foreign players because of the playing time promises made to the Europeans to get them to come. Last year it seemed to be happening for sure - especially when we played a kid that had decommitted already vs giving the local kid a chance to shine - and it proved to be a bad decision.

Those are all fair criticism’s. I’ve heard some people say flat out that the scholarships should be used on American players and not on foreign. That I have a problem with. The way you stated said argument is all very valid discussion.

Correct. There have been a few who have been fairly loud about giving scholarships to local players rather than foreign players.

The de Oliveira thing was, to say the least, puzzling. If Montigel had the buy-in from his team, then it was a good move. If he didn't consult them and acted unilaterally (which he is entitled to do, for better or worse), then I think it was a bad move that probably caused some ripple effects. As for promises of playing time for foreign players, I have no idea if that is happening, or not. It would be disappointing if it is.

Bill Woodley, who coached in the 80s, was about as aloof and disconnected from the team as a coach could be. However, when it came time to decide who played in key events, he did get feedback from three or four of the top guys before making decisions, regardless of how qualifying went. I don't think that is unusual in collegiate golf.

 

[FrogBall09]

Correct. There have been a few who have been fairly loud about giving scholarships to local players rather than foreign players.

The de Oliveira thing was, to say the least, puzzling. If Montigel had the buy-in from his team, then it was a good move. If he didn't consult them and acted unilaterally (which he is entitled to do, for better or worse), then I think it was a bad move that probably caused some ripple effects. As for promises of playing time for foreign players, I have no idea if that is happening, or not. It would be disappointing if it is.

Bill Woodley, who coached in the 80s, was about as aloof and disconnected from the team as a coach could be. However, when it came time to decide who played in key events, he did get feedback from three or four of the top guys before making decisions, regardless of how qualifying went. I don't think that is unusual in collegiate golf.

well some of the most vocal are former players - so that to me means a lot more than what the rest of us think to be honest. And I highly doubt Coach M went to the players before deciding who was in the van mostly because I don't think the player that got the shaft would have been ok with it. He was ready to go and wanted the chance.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

well some of the most vocal are former players - so that to me means a lot more than what the rest of us think to be honest. And I highly doubt Coach M went to the players before deciding who was in the van mostly because I don't think the player that got the shaft would have been ok with it. He was ready to go and wanted the chance.

For what it's worth, there are several former players on here.

 

[FrogBall09]

For what it's worth, there are several former players on here.

I am aware of that - I also now several of the former players that are unhappy with the lack of local players on our team.

 

[JogginFrog]

Johannes Veerman and Julien Brun both in the top 10 after the opening round of the Magical Kenya Open. Veerman a shot back of the lead.

 

[JogginFrog]

Bill Woodley, who coached in the 80s, was about as aloof and disconnected from the team as a coach could be. However, when it came time to decide who played in key events, he did get feedback from three or four of the top guys before making decisions, regardless of how qualifying went. I don't think that is unusual in collegiate golf.

Didn't realize til I looked it up that Woodley still coached college golf up to 2019 I think, with his last two stints at Texas State and Schreiner.

I think he was the one who, back in the day, gave me the hard truth about my lack of a future in college golf.

 

[JogginFrog]

Julien Brun notches his third top-15 finish in 5 starts on the European Tour, this one at the Magical Kenya Open.

 

[Paul in uhh]

Julien Brun notches his third top-15 finish in 5 starts on the European Tour, this one at the Magical Kenya Open.

Best tournament name on that circuit

“Magical kenya”

 

[JogginFrog]

The de Oliveira thing was, to say the least, puzzling. If Montigel had the buy-in from his team, then it was a good move. If he didn't consult them and acted unilaterally (which he is entitled to do, for better or worse), then I think it was a bad move that probably caused some ripple effects. As for promises of playing time for foreign players, I have no idea if that is happening, or not. It would be disappointing if it is.

Bill Woodley, who coached in the 80s, was about as aloof and disconnected from the team as a coach could be. However, when it came time to decide who played in key events, he did get feedback from three or four of the top guys before making decisions, regardless of how qualifying went. I don't think that is unusual in collegiate golf.

Oklahoma State women's coach Greg Robertson sees things the way that most posters here did in criticizing Coach Montigel for playing de Oliveira once he hit the portal. Golfweek reported this week that OSU's second top-40 amateur has entered the portal (Fierro, following McGinty). These are the two best players on the #2 team in the country. Robertson immediately pulled playing privileges and access to the practice and workout facilities. That certainly sends a strong message to players (and to programs seeking to poach).

Some have suggested that, at least on the men's side, schools have improperly approached players about their interest in transferring. I doubt that was the case with OSU because of how early the announcements were made. Players wanted to open the door to contact with other schools. (If contact had already occurred, why go public with an announcement?) Possible that something went down that caused the players to quit, which would make it easier for the coach to take a hard line.

 

[JogginFrog]

Tom Hoge's at it again. Top of the leaderboard at the Players Championship among those who finished round one. Tied with Fleetwood.

Some video:

Live Golf Coverage, Video, and Audio home for PGA TOUR

www.pgatour.com

Tom Hoge gets greenside in two to set up birdie at THE PLAYERS - PGA TOUR Video

In the opening round of THE PLAYERS Championship 2022, Tom Hoge makes birdie on the par-5 16th hole.

www.pgatour.com

And was one of you out there following him? Hoge gets a Woo from the gallery with his closing birdie:

https://www.pgatour.com/video/2022/03/10/tom-hoge-makes-birdie-on-no--9-in-round-1-at-the-players.html

Saw that Chris Solomon of No Laying Up had Hoge among his picks for the week.

 

[JogginFrog]

Also Hoge gives the Frog cagers a shout out:

 

[ShreveFrog]

That flop out of the rough was awesome!

 

[JogginFrog]

TCU women kick off five straight days of Horned Frog golf in the Valley of the Sun. The women play in the Clover Cup at Longbow in Mesa today through Sunday. Then, the men play in the Grand Canyon Invitational at the GCU course on Monday and Tuesday. Weather looks perfect--70s and 80s with sun and not much wind.

The story for the women is Trinity King's reappearance in the lineup for the first time [edit--since early November 2020, when she shot a pair of 69s to finish T7 in San Marcos]. Trinity played once last fall as an individual, and played well, but this is the first time this season that she's been in the starting five. It's been a long road back for her. Hoping she plays great--[edit--her first-round pairing includes reigning U.S. Women's Amateur champ Jensen Castle].

Women got to AZ early for spring break; expect they got in a round at Grayhawk, which will host the NCAA finals again this year (and next).

The Clover Cup was perhaps TCU's worst event last year, when the women finished 10th in a 12-team field. Neither Iqbal nor Pacheco posted a score better than 76 that week. Both are back to get revenge, along with Lois Lau, who was TCU's bright spot last year (T15 with a final-round 67). Caitlyn Macnab rounds out the lineup.

The field is quite different from last year, when Arizona State, Arizona and UNLV showed off their desert-golf skills in finishing 1-2-3. None of those teams is in this year's 17-team field. It's a wide-open tournament; highest-ranked team is LSU at 17. Frogs could contend.

Follow scoring here: https://results.golfstat.com/public/leaderboards/gsnav.cfm?pg=team&tid=23575

 

[JogginFrog]

TCU women are on top of the leaderboard in Arizona after the first round at -4. They lead by 2 over Clemson. A few teams still finishing their rounds.

Individually, four Frogs shot even par or better, with Sabrina Iqbal (-2, T8) leading the way. However, it was not a triumphant return for Trinity King, who finished far back of her teammates (and her ex-Frog junior golf buddy, who is solo 3rd with a 68).

The Frogs are not known as a team that overpowers par-5s. But today, TCU went -13 as a team on long holes, including 3 eagles. That led the field by 3 shots. And the other teams in TCU's pairing ranked 2nd and 3rd. The pairing was a combined -30 on par-5s, which was 20 shots better than any other pairing.

Seems like familiarity with the course makes a difference. From the course flyovers, it seems that players need a willingness to take on fairway bunkers--playing away from them looks safer but risks the desert. Also, pin positions on two-tiered greens dictate strategy day to day.

 

[JogginFrog]

TCU women turn what could have been a disastrous round into something pretty good. They Frogs were +6 for the day and 11 back of LSU with 5 holes to play. They went -7 over the finishing stretch to get under par for the day, and only 3 shots back. They'll be in the final set of pairings.

None of that looked possible 6 holes in. Trinity King had another shaky start (+3 through 5), and when a teammate made an early double and then a triple, I would have guessed that a 79 might count for the Frogs. Credit to King for fighting back, going -1 the rest of the way to shoot 74.

Credit also to Lois Lau, who shot 69 to sit T5, and Caitlyn Macnab, who shot 70 (T8).

Frogs lead the field in par-5 scoring by 8 shots. If they can figure out the par-3s, they'll have a chance for a trophy tomorrow.

 

[JogginFrog]

Not only does the woo get into PGA Tour highlights, but TCU fans get a shoutout from the No Laying Up guys this weekend. From 19:15.