SEC mov I would love to see

[YCBJ Frog]

Alright, I see what you're saying. I just didn't buy the argument that they deliver all the small markets in their footprint. Let me rephrase, I buy the argument...of course they do. But it doesn't help your point. Every conference delivers all the small markets in their footprint. That's a given. Pac-12 delivers Portland, Sacramento, Fresno. Big 12 deliveres OKC, Kansas City, San Antonio. They can all claim small markets.

It's the chest-bumping Top 10 that they want. And I didn't consider Miami Top 10 (because they aren't). And I still don't think they deliver Miami more than the Big 12 delivers DFW - which was an argument you made (in contrast to your "I never compared Miami to DFW"). That's just not true. DFW is a football rich city in a crazy sports town. Miami is a questionable football city in a bad sports town. The Big 12 ratings in DFW have to be way more than SEC ratings in Miami...I just can't comprehend that wouldn't be the case.

You're still off the mark. I never said anything about the Big 12 delivering DFW. I was talking about A&M delivering it for the SEC. The SEC isn't picking up UT, OU, and TTech, they're just getting A&M, so the level of penetration that the Big 12 on the whole has in DFW is neither relevant nor is it what I was talking about. A&M grants access to DFW, but as I've said multiple times now in many different ways, they don't penetrate DFW more than UF does both Miami and Tampa, so saying Florida doesn't deliver those to the SEC but A&M will deliver DFW doesn't make any sense. I get that neither Miami nor Tampa are top 10, but being just outside the top 10 doesn't equate to them not being major TV markets.

I'm starting to wonder if you're intentionally making straw-man arguments or if you really are having that much trouble understanding those distinctions...

 

[gatorfrog]

Miami is #8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

 

[Merch Frog]

Miami is #8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

Huge difference between MSA and media market. Netowks pay attention to media market rankings. In which Miami is #16.

Here, this will help you: http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/1070268-top-20-media-markets-2010-2011-a.html

 

[Merch Frog]

[quote name='you_can't_be_joking' timestamp='1313336906' post='891761']
It delivers Miami better than A&M delivers Dallas/Fort Worth.
[/quote]

You can try to act like you never said that, but it's still there.

We're talking about A&M in the SEC, right? Not current A&M? If that's the case, your statement is insane. A&M in the SEC will deliver bigger numbers in DFW than the SEC gets in Miami. That's as simple as I can make my argument. No straw-man needed.

 

[YCBJ Frog]

You can try to act like you never said that, but it's still there.

We're talking about A&M in the SEC, right? Not current A&M? If that's the case, your statement is insane. A&M in the SEC will deliver bigger numbers in DFW than the SEC gets in Miami. That's as simple as I can make my argument. No straw-man needed.

Holy smokes... this is ridiculous. I'm not trying to act like I didn't say anything. You have some serious reading comprehension issues. TAMU's market delivery for the SEC is not the same thing as the market delivery that the Big 12 has in DFW currently. The Big 12 includes 9 other schools that have alumni and football teams of their own and many many more televised games that don't even involve TAMU. Potential ratings and viewership for A&M in the SEC =/= ratings and viewership for the Big 12 currently. I don't know how much clearer that can possibly be made, and you have repeatedly confused that distinction in this discussion.

You also just made another straw-man argument there, all while saying no straw-man arguments are necessary. At no point did I say there would be fewer viewers for A&M games in DFW in the SEC than there are in Miami for Florida games--the size difference in the markets makes that almost impossible. I do however think that the competition for eyeballs in DFW is a lot stiffer and that UF commands a much stronger share of Miami and Tampa than A&M will of DFW in the SEC, becuase no matter what A&M will always be the third or fourth most popular team on TV that weekend. As long as Texas and OU continue to play football, A&M won't ever become the top dog in DFW. Florida doesn't have a Texas or an Oklahoma to fight with for eyeballs, they just have FSU and Miami who haven't posed much of a threat in quite some time.

I'm going to go ahead and walk away from this, because you're either incredibly slow or incredibly dense. You also seem to have preconceived idea about what argument I'm making regardless of what words appear on your screen. Regardless of the cause of the problem, we're not getting anywhere on this discussion.

 

[AEAfrog]

Curious for others thoughts on this:

A&M has a pretty comfortable level of control over the Houston market followed by strong showings by UT and LSU. I've never been overly comfortable with the notion that A&M controls DFW, however. In the DFW area, I see lots of UT fans and, recently, TCU fans. After that, I'd say it's about even between OU and A&M then a little bit more of a drop off down to Tech, Baylor, OSU, and SMU. University of North Texas falls in there somewhere, but...

I'm not trying to say that A&M doesn't have a good number of fans in the DFW area, but I think their ability to 'deliver the market' is a little exaggerated. Am I completely off base here?

 

[Spike]

Curious for others thoughts on this:

A&M has a pretty comfortable level of control over the Houston market followed by strong showings by UT and LSU. I've never been overly comfortable with the notion that A&M controls DFW, however. In the DFW area, I see lots of UT fans and, recently, TCU fans. After that, I'd say it's about even between OU and A&M then a little bit more of a drop off down to Tech, Baylor, OSU, and SMU. University of North Texas falls in there somewhere, but...

I'm not trying to say that A&M doesn't have a good number of fans in the DFW area, but I think their ability to 'deliver the market' is a little exaggerated. Am I completely off base here?

I think the overlooked factor in delivering markets is that while you have diehard Aggies in DFW, a higher quality SEC opponent will also have fans here, plus it will bring more of the casual fan than A & M vs most of the B12.

My example works better when you are talking about a smaller market UH or SMU type team, but often the synergy of the oppposing team gets lost in the argument.

 

[Merch Frog]

You must be in politics....

 

[AEAfrog]

I think the overlooked factor in delivering markets is that while you have diehard Aggies in DFW, a higher quality SEC opponent will also have fans here, plus it will bring more of the casual fan than A & M vs most of the B12.

My example works better when you are talking about a smaller market UH or SMU type team, but often the synergy of the oppposing team gets lost in the argument.

I agree with that. I've always thought that line of thinking could be applied to TCU in being added to the SEC.

 

[gatorfrog]

Huge difference between MSA and media market. Netowks pay attention to media market rankings. In which Miami is #16.

Here, this will help you: http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/1070268-top-20-media-markets-2010-2011-a.html

Fair enough, and thank you for a new way of thinking about the numbers, but as is mentioned in the thread you linked, the Miami DMA doesn't include West Palm Beach. While the networks will use a detailed set of calculations based on media markets, I think for messageboard shorthand, MSA statistics are more useful, as they'll gather in the nearby markets that are likely to share football allegiances, but aren't in the DMA itself and might be overlooked when we're discussing. I.e. Miami+WPB > Tampa-St.Pete

 

[Merch Frog]

Fair enough, and thank you for a new way of thinking about the numbers, but as is mentioned in the thread you linked, the Miami DMA doesn't include West Palm Beach. While the networks will use a detailed set of calculations based on media markets, I think for messageboard shorthand, MSA statistics are more useful, as they'll gather in the nearby markets that are likely to share football allegiances, but aren't in the DMA itself and might be overlooked when we're discussing. I.e. Miami+WPB > Tampa-St.Pete

I still question something that isn't calculated: whether or not Miami is a sports town. I live in the Bay Area and while it's a Top 10 media market, it's one of the worst sports towns I've ever seen. There's just too much to do out here: Napa, beaches, SF, Tahoe, etc. Turn on the Rangers game and look at the attendance in Oakland. Sure, they bandwagon when a team is good (Giants), but otherwise, it sucks. No sports bars, one sports radio station that sucks, they don't care about Stanford or Cal.

I look at Miami the same way. The U has always struggled with attendance. Marlins need no explanation. Dolphins games look half empty the last few years. Heat became hot when LeBron came on board. But even when they won the title, they weren't killing with attendance that year.

Just seems like it's like the Bay Area. A lot to do on the weekend. As much of a sports nut as I am, if I had the option to go to South Beach instead of a Hurricanes game, I'd probably choose boobs.