SEC mov I would love to see

[Army Frog Fan]

I would love to see Texas make a preemptive strike and contact the SEC before aTm could pull the trigger. Condition their move on keeping aTm out. Man you would have some butthurt aggies on suicide watch.

IMO, the aggie to SEC move is driven most by wanting to 1-up UT. I would laugh my [Craig James] off if UT took that away from them too.

 

[Merch Frog]

I don't think A&M is trying to one-up UT as much as they are looking at what gives them an advantage. When the Big 12 united, it was all hinged on a new network deal that would give all the schools the money they were looking for in other conferences. The the LHN was announced and A&M, OU and Tech said "that's not what we signed up for."

They didn't have much to argue about LHN until the high school games came into play. Then they (LHN) tried to make it where a Big 12 game would air on LHN. And A&M said "enough". Can't say I blame them. I'm sure OU and Tech are just as fed up with Bevo's games.

It sounds like A&M had a standing offer from SEC. They know expansion is coming and getting into Texas and it's 2 top-10 media markets would be the smart way to go. It's a natural fit for both parties.

Considering the SEC has a $2 Billion TV contract with just one big media market (Atlanta), think of what they can do when you throw in Dallas and Houston. They are licking their chops. And A&M will get way more $$ in the SEC than the Big 12...which helps them keep up with the LHN.

 

[froghair]

I am for anything that causes ut pain and suffering in whatever form it comes. It looks like those bass [ Finebaum ]s are bullying themselves right into a corner. If not now, it surely will happen sometime in the not too distant future.

 

[Stiff Arm Frog]

My annoyance with Aggie stupidity is far outweighed by my hatred of ut. Aggie found a way to screw it to the Longhorns, and I saw good for them. I seriously hope UT goes independent and ends up in their own grave. Paying 12 teams a year to play you can get very expensive.

 

[Young and Horned]

I think OU joining A&M to SEC wld be funnier. Basically saying F U to Texas.

 

[SnoSki]

It'll be funny when the Big 12 explodes and all of the Baylor and Tech fans who have mocked the MWC/CUSA will finally get to taste its glory.

Tech fand claim that they're a traditional power.. lets not forget that theyve never played in a BCS game and have only been in contention for 1.. and then fired their most successful coach immediately after that season.

At least it seems like Baylor fans know their gravy train is almost done.

 

[njustus7]

The BEST would be if UT decided to join too... That would be such a BYU move...

 

[YCBJ Frog]

Considering the SEC has a $2 Billion TV contract with just one big media market (Atlanta), think of what they can do when you throw in Dallas and Houston. They are licking their chops. And A&M will get way more $$ in the SEC than the Big 12...which helps them keep up with the LHN.

All the SEC brings in is atlanta? Really? Ever been to Miami? That's not to mention all of the smaller cities from the red river to the atlantic that they have nearly full market penetration in.

 

[AEAfrog]

How does the SEC deliver Miami? The SEC controls a lot of smaller cities (Birmingham, Little Rock, Baton Rouge, etc.), but it doesn't control a major metropolitan area outside of Atlanta. The only other city that's close is New Orleans (which isn't especially large either).

 

[Tsfardiim]

How does the SEC deliver Miami? The SEC controls a lot of smaller cities (Birmingham, Little Rock, Baton Rouge, etc.), but it doesn't control a major metropolitan area outside of Atlanta. The only other city that's close is New Orleans (which isn't especially large either).

What, you're not impressed by the 185k in Little Rock? How is that not a major metropolitan area?

I think that's what people don't understand about the SEC, and the South in general. Arkansas's total population is less than 3 million. As is Mississippi's. In fact, only Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee have populations that anyone would consider large. these are not, generally speaking, large media markets.

 

[gatorfrog]

How does the SEC deliver Miami? The SEC controls a lot of smaller cities (Birmingham, Little Rock, Baton Rouge, etc.), but it doesn't control a major metropolitan area outside of Atlanta. The only other city that's close is New Orleans (which isn't especially large either).

UF takes a lot of students from and sends a lot of alumni to Miami, not to mention it serves as a magnet for SEC grads not entirely unlike DFW. For purposes of sporting networks wanting to draw the maximum amount of attention in south Florida, the SEC is at least on par with the ACC, and miles ahead of everyone else.

Also, you mention Birmingham, LR, BR, and NO, but you're ignoring Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa/St. Pete, Memphis, and Nashville, and that's just the ones that are larger than Birmingham's or NO's 1.1M metro areas. There are a LOT more that are the size of LR or bigger.

 

[SnoSki]

What, you're not impressed by the 185k in Little Rock? How is that not a major metropolitan area?

I think that's what people don't understand about the SEC, and the South in general. Arkansas's total population is less than 3 million. As is Mississippi's. In fact, only Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee have populations that anyone would consider large. these are not, generally speaking, large media markets.

Additionally, most of those SEC teams are in towns of 100K-200K and are the only team in town.. thus why they sell out their 80K seat venues. I wonder if they'd have as much luck with 4 (major) pro sports franchises and 2 other D1 programs within a 1 hour drive. Soon to be 3 with UTA.

 

[AEAfrog]

UF takes a lot of students from and sends a lot of alumni to Miami, not to mention it serves as a magnet for SEC grads not entirely unlike DFW. For purposes of sporting networks wanting to draw the maximum amount of attention in south Florida, the SEC is at least on par with the ACC, and miles ahead of everyone else.

Also, you mention Birmingham, LR, BR, and NO, but you're ignoring Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa/St. Pete, Memphis, and Nashville, and that's just the ones that are larger than Birmingham's or NO's 1.1M metro areas. There are a LOT more that are the size of LR or bigger.

My point was more that the SEC doesn't have any metropolitan areas similar to DFW, Houston, NYC, etc. (outside of Atlanta). I'm well aware that there are some cities of decent size in the SEC footprint, but they're on a lower level.

 

[YCBJ Frog]

How does the SEC deliver Miami? The SEC controls a lot of smaller cities (Birmingham, Little Rock, Baton Rouge, etc.), but it doesn't control a major metropolitan area outside of Atlanta. The only other city that's close is New Orleans (which isn't especially large either).

It delivers Miami better than A&M delivers Dallas/Fort Worth, which was the original point Merch was making. In Miami there are a lot fewer hands in the cookie jar and Florida is the top dog in the state, unlike A&M. Same can be said for all of the markets in Florida like Orlando, Jacksonville, Tampa/St Pete/Clearwater, and even Pensacola/Ft Walton (though that's heavily split among numerous other SEC followings).

What the SEC lacks in large markets it makes up for in penetration, which none of the other conferences can rival. Add that to national appeal and that allows them to draw contracts as big as the B10, which has tons of population in their footprint with poor penetration (compared to the SEC).

 

[YCBJ Frog]

My point was more that the SEC doesn't have any metropolitan areas similar to DFW, Houston, NYC, etc. (outside of Atlanta). I'm well aware that there are some cities of decent size in the SEC footprint, but they're on a lower level.

You do realize that fans per capita, LSU probably ranks on Houston's list near where A&M ranks on DFW's right?

In my opinion (based on personal experience and what I've read regarding TV contracts):
DFW: UT, OU, A&M
Houston: A&M, UT, LSU

 

[Merch Frog]

[quote name='you_can't_be_joking' timestamp='1313336906' post='891761']
It delivers Miami better than A&M delivers Dallas/Fort Worth, which was the original point Merch was making. [/quote]

That's absolutely insane. The Big 12 OWNS DFW. Completely owns it. Miami is split between the SEC and ACC - and not in the geographical footprint of the SEC.

The point I was making is what Top 10 market does a conference deliver? The SEC has one Top 10 market in its geographical footprint. If they get A&M, they can include Houston, and split DFW with the Big 12. That's huge for ESPN and CBS.

 

[YCBJ Frog]

That's absolutely insane. The Big 12 OWNS DFW. Completely owns it. Miami is split between the SEC and ACC - and not in the geographical footprint of the SEC.

Great straw man argument, but I never said the Big 12 doesn't own DFW.

What we were discussing is A&M LEAVING THE BIG 12 and helping " deliver" Houston and DFW to the SEC. Simply put, to say A&M delivers the DFW market and that Florida doesn't deliver Miami is ignorant. Miami is split among other conferences for sure, just as DFW will be split with A&M in the SEC. The difference is the Big 12 will still be the dominant force in DFW with A&M gone to the SEC, while the SEC is the dominant force in all of Florida's markets except Tallahassee with the ACC and Big East taking much smaller portions in the state, even in Miami with "The U" being in the market.

 

[Merch Frog]

You're still missing the point. We're talking about SEC negotiations with ESPN and CBS. You can't deny that the SEC can now include DFW and Houston in their negotiations - and that could bring more money to the conference than any other cities can deliver in their current footprint.

When conferences negotiate, it's all about banging their chest about how many Top 10 markets are in their footprint. I work for an athletic department, and I hear that crap all the time. It doesn't matter if a team "delivers" that market, it's if the conference can justifiably add their games in that market.

For example: Lets say CBS normally gets a 2.4 rating for SEC games in DFW. They can argue with A&M, their ratings in DFW will climb to 3.5. In Houston, from 2.8 to 4.0. Those things are huge in negotiations. Throw A&M in one of those games and the ratings will double.

And please stop comparing Miami to DFW...

Top Media Markets (2010/2011):

5. DFW
8. Atlanta
10. Houston
16. Miami

Nice avatar, btw.

 

[YCBJ Frog]

You're still missing the point. We're talking about SEC negotiations with ESPN and CBS. You can't deny that the SEC can now include DFW and Houston in their negotiations - and that could bring more money to the conference than any other cities can deliver in their current footprint.

When conferences negotiate, it's all about banging their chest about how many Top 10 markets are in their footprint. I work for an athletic department, and I hear that crap all the time. It doesn't matter if a team "delivers" that market, it's if the conference can justifiably add their games in that market.

For example: Lets say CBS normally gets a 2.4 rating for SEC games in DFW. They can argue with A&M, their ratings in DFW will climb to 3.5. In Houston, from 2.8 to 4.0. Those things are huge in negotiations. Throw A&M in one of those games and the ratings will double.

And please stop comparing Miami to DFW...

Top Media Markets (2010/2011):

5. DFW
8. Atlanta
10. Houston
16. Miami

Nice avatar, btw.

I'm not missing the point because I was never contending that A&M doesn't deliver Houston and DFW for the SEC's television partners--I was simply stating that you are incorrect in saying that the only large market the SEC delivers currently is Atlanta, because Florida delivers Miami. AEAFrog then jumped in and said Florida doesn't deliver Miami, to which I responded they easily have better market penetration than A&M has in DFW, so it can't be argued that A&M delivers DFW but that Florida doesn't deliver Miami.

And I also never compared Miami to DFW, I simply stated that Miami is a large market that Florida delivers for the SEC... thanks for providing the ranking that proves my point with Miami as the 16th largest TV market in the nation. Considering the fact that the SEC is one of 6 BCS conferences and controls the majority of three of the top 16 markets (8. Atlanta, 12. Tampa, 16. Miami) and nearly full penetration in small and medium markets throughout their region, it's no wonder they compete with the Big 10 for biggest contracts at every renewal. That's not to mention the fact that a lot of the other markets high on that list aren't exactly football crazed (NYC, LA, SF, Seattle, Minneapolis) and the vast majority of the markets on the list are heavily divided between several conferences, unlike Atlanta which the SEC dominates.

To a lesser extent than with Atlanta, the SEC also is dominant in Miami and Tampa, though FSU does take a healthy chunk of those, which is why the SEC is interested in them also. I absolutely agree that A&M is a great move and adding them will help tremendously. If they get FSU they will have the full attention of the vast majority of football fans in the entire state of Florida also, and if VT is part of the expansion they will also get a healthy chunk of #8 DC. That would give them #5, #8, #9, #10, #13, and #16 with nearly complete penetration among the football-watching public in 8, 10, 13, and 16.

 

[Merch Frog]

Alright, I see what you're saying. I just didn't buy the argument that they deliver all the small markets in their footprint. Let me rephrase, I buy the argument...of course they do. But it doesn't help your point. Every conference delivers all the small markets in their footprint. That's a given. Pac-12 delivers Portland, Sacramento, Fresno. Big 12 deliveres OKC, Kansas City, San Antonio. They can all claim small markets.

It's the chest-bumping Top 10 that they want. And I didn't consider Miami Top 10 (because they aren't). And I still don't think they deliver Miami more than the Big 12 delivers DFW - which was an argument you made (in contrast to your "I never compared Miami to DFW"). That's just not true. DFW is a football rich city in a crazy sports town. Miami is a questionable football city in a bad sports town. The Big 12 ratings in DFW have to be way more than SEC ratings in Miami...I just can't comprehend that wouldn't be the case.