One of my favorite Billy Tubbs memories

[wes]

QUOTE(OmniscienceFrog @ Jul 4 2010, 11:26 PM) [snapback]593179[/snapback]
Well, Billy was just fine until Eric arrived.

Should we just assign all the blame to you instead?

Funny, nobody said anything about Eric in this thread until you did. This was simply fond rememberances of Billy by fans that enjoyed him. You just can't stand that though, can you?



Why are you picking on TFrog? He has done more for TCU athletics than any 50 people on this board. Billy's problems were his own doing and his "feud" with Hyman was started by Billy.
Eric arrived the day we went to the NCAA tournament and lost to FL State in the first round. It wasn't Eric who kept Billy and his assistants from capitalizing on that great season, recruiting wise. It wasn't Eric who kept Billy from scheduling good OOC opponents It wasn't Eric who kept Billy from attending staff meetings and it wasn't Eric's basketball team who had a GPA that would be deemed embarrassing to any school. It certainly wasn't Eric's players who were constantly in trouble with the law.

I think that all TFrog was saying that there is more to the story than meets the eye and while it may be fun to fondly remember Billy Tubbs, there was a lack of control within his program that was troubling. Remember Lee Nailon slapping that UNLV player and then beating up his girlfriend? Remember Myron Anthony and Greedy Daniels and their drug related problems? Those aren't fond remembrances for me.

 

[OmniscienceFrog]

QUOTE(wes @ Jul 4 2010, 11:45 PM) [snapback]593181[/snapback]
Why are you picking on TFrog?


Because this thread had nothing to do with Eric Hyman until he apparently decided there were just to many feel good stories about Billy, which he just can't stand for.




QUOTE(wes @ Jul 4 2010, 11:45 PM) [snapback]593181[/snapback]
He has done more for TCU athletics than any 50 people on this board.


And that is appreciated. Money does have it's privledges.



QUOTE(wes @ Jul 4 2010, 11:45 PM) [snapback]593181[/snapback]
I think that all TFrog was saying that there is more to the story than meets the eye and while it may be fun to fondly remember Billy Tubbs, there was a lack of control within his program that was troubling. Remember Lee Nailon slapping that UNLV player and then beating up his girlfriend? Remember Myron Anthony and Greedy Daniels and their drug related problems? Those aren't fond remembrances for me.


Wes, I gotta say that I don't remember you complaining about them too much at the time.

 

[Westover Hillbilly]

I remember Billy speaking to Rotary Club right after he was hired... he said he didn't know much about the team (i.e. returning players) but said the first year the team "was going to run and shoot" and the 2nd year "we're going to run and make 'em"...

From my discussions with some of the folks involved, the admin and the trustees really didn't like the way Tubbs program was run and that Tubbs wasn't what they called a "team player" with the University...

My take is that the powers wanted a program that graduated players and fit the mold of a Tier I or II school... KU can recruit great players who are also decent academic students with character... TCU can't and still win...

Rightly or wrongly, I think hiring Neil was an over-reaction to the Tubbs program- they hired a guy that would make his boys go to class and do what they are supposed to do... This is about the only thing I applaud CND about- other than his teams playing some pretty solid defense (alas with the lowest percentage shooting averages year in and out in DI)...

 

[wes]

QUOTE(OmniscienceFrog @ Jul 5 2010, 12:22 AM) [snapback]593185[/snapback]
Because this thread had nothing to do with Eric Hyman until he apparently decided there were just to many feel good stories about Billy, which he just can't stand for.


This board is operated and maintained so that he and others, can express their opinions. He expressed his, I expressed mine and you expressed yours. As you well know, a thread can go many ways as can any discussion in real life.

QUOTE
And that is appreciated. Money does have it's privledges.


As does time and effort. TFrog has spent countless hours working for the betterment of TCU athletics and for TCU. That time had nothing to do with money and all to do with a love of this university.

QUOTE
Wes, I gotta say that I don't remember you complaining about them too much at the time.


I can guarantee you that I didn't complain much, at the time, but years down the road those are not fond remembrances for me.

Now would I love to spend a few hours drinking Crown Royal with Billy? Heck yeah. Anytime, anyplace and it would be a great couple of hours.

 

[Horned Frog Country]

"People can downplay Tubbs success all they want but the fact of that matter is that he had one of the highest if not the highest winning percentage of any TCU basketball coach. It is kind of interesting that Tubbs did not have any problems with the administration when Tucker and Windegger were in charge of things. Things sure changed when they were gone. Later on, there were a number of stories written by Art Garcia about Tubbs about to be fired. It sure would be interesting to find out who was Art's nameless source.

People seem to forget the other off court issues during CND's tenure. Hyman sure did not do anything to CND for the NCAA violation. CND also called TCU fans stupid for being unhappy about his 9-19 season. CND chastised students for chanting "over rated" during the game against KU and as a result they never came back. I talked to a waitress that worked at Red Hot and Blue that complained about CND's staff members getting real drunk while having a meeting. There was also a rape allegation that involved two players during his time.

It all comes down to if you are "yes man" to certain donors and people in the administration. If you are not a "yes man" like Tubbs, they will undermine you and find reasons to let you go. On the other hand, if you are a "yes man" like CND, the administration and donors will overlook your horrible record as long as possible. They will even overlook off court issues and PR disasters if they are not too embarrassed by it. Only when it financially hurts the administration too much to keep the "yes man", they will then make a change.

 

[wes]

QUOTE(Horned Frog Country @ Jul 5 2010, 04:06 PM) [snapback]593307[/snapback]
"People can downplay Tubbs success all they want but the fact of that matter is that he had one of the highest if not the highest winning percentage of any TCU basketball coach. It is kind of interesting that Tubbs did not have any problems with the administration when Tucker and Windegger were in charge of things. Things sure changed when they were gone. Later on, there were a number of stories written by Art Garcia about Tubbs about to be fired. It sure would be interesting to find out who was Art's nameless source.

People seem to forget the other off court issues during CND's tenure. Hyman sure did not do anything to CND for the NCAA violation. CND also called TCU fans stupid for being unhappy about his 9-19 season. CND chastised students for chanting "over rated" during the game against KU and as a result they never came back. I talked to a waitress that worked at Red Hot and Blue that complained about CND's staff members getting real drunk while having a meeting. There was also a rape allegation that involved two players during his time.

It all comes down to if you are "yes man" to certain donors and people in the administration. If you are not a "yes man" like Tubbs, they will undermine you and find reasons to let you go. On the other hand, if you are a "yes man" like CND, the administration and donors will overlook your horrible record as long as possible. They will even overlook off court issues and PR disasters if they are not too embarrassed by it. Only when it financially hurts the administration too much to keep the "yes man", they will then make a change.


Well you kind of answered your own question when you said that Tubbs had no problems with Tucker or Windegger. Of course he didnt, Frank couldn't see beyond the end of his nose and Tucker didn't care about athletics. As long as the endowment grew, he could care less what happened over there. Neither were hands on with the athletic department and thats one reason Frank was shown the door.

As for his not being a "yes" man, he wasn't but he also didn't mind his own store very well. Thats why athletes were always in trouble and grades were horrible. His graduation rate was a disgrace and the team GPA was even worse.

 

[PurpleBlood87]

QUOTE(Horned Frog Country @ Jul 5 2010, 04:06 PM) [snapback]593307[/snapback]
CND also called TCU fans stupid for being unhappy about his 9-19 season. CND chastised students for chanting "over rated" during the game against KU and as a result they never came back

It wasn't Kansas, it was during a win over a ranked Air Force squad.

 

[Horned Frog Country]

QUOTE(PurpleBlood87 @ Jul 5 2010, 06:14 PM) [snapback]593323[/snapback]
It wasn't Kansas, it was during a win over a ranked Air Force squad.



You are right about that. It is hard to believe that AFA was ranked at the time. In any event, it was not good that CND did that to the students. He could have handled it much better. It ultimately costed him the support of students.

 

[MTfrog5]

Didn't he get mad about the students chanting over-rated after we beat Louisville?

 

[Horned Frog Country]

QUOTE(wes @ Jul 5 2010, 04:15 PM) [snapback]593311[/snapback]
Well you kind of answered your own question when you said that Tubbs had no problems with Tucker or Windegger. Of course he didnt, Frank couldn't see beyond the end of his nose and Tucker didn't care about athletics. As long as the endowment grew, he could care less what happened over there. Neither were hands on with the athletic department and thats one reason Frank was shown the door.

As for his not being a "yes" man, he wasn't but he also didn't mind his own store very well. Thats why athletes were always in trouble and grades were horrible. His graduation rate was a disgrace and the team GPA was even worse.



I will say that Tucker did not care much about athletics until the announcement of the 4 Texas schools leaving the Big 12. After that, he cared a lot about athletics. As far as Frank goes, he did make some questionable hires such as Shell Robinson and Pat Sullivan. At the same time, he was not exactly given a lot of support from the administration.

As far the academics and Tubbs goes, remember Tubbs took in a lot of JUCO players and transfers. Back then, the NCAA did not count those players towards graduation rates. If they were included, the numbers would look better.

As I pointed out earlier, CND did not exactly mind his own store very well either. Yet, the powers that be looked to the other way on bad stuff that went on. That way they would not appear to admitting a mistake in the decision to get rid of Tubbs for CND. It was only until they realized that keeping a few donors happy was not worth having a horrible basketball program along with an empty DMC for every home game.