• The KillerFrogs

Kevin Samuel declared for the draft

Eight

Member
Don’t these kids know there’s a certain degree of embarrassment to putting your name out there when everyone else knows you’re just not ready?

the nba doesn't draft kids who are ready skill wise to play right away in the league.

for years they have drafted players who have the physical ability to play in the league under the belief the development of skills will happen or it won't. you are talking about a league with a 2 round draft.

samuel puts his name in, gets a chance to play in the pre-draft camps, gets an evaluation of where he stands and can make a decision on his future.

i am not sure the down side.
 
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Eight

Member
Dark clouds seem to be gathering in both basketball and baseball. Hopefully, this dilemma doesn't extend into

the football program.

there have been issues for months inside the basketball program that came to a head when you had 4 players leave in a very short amount of time, an assistant was let go for lying about taking money to influence players, and the head coach seriously considered another job.

samuel considering an nba future is not a dark cloud. kevin was highly regarded coming out of high school in houston and this is more the natural progression of his career choices. truthfully a kid like samuel getting taken in the draft would be a selling point for the program to future recruits who want to follow a similar path.

i believe he should come back as his skill set is not highly valued in the nba right now, but i think some on this board better get ready for the idea that some of these highly touted basketball recruits are not going to stay for the full 4 years and i don't mean transferring elsewhere.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
there have been issues for months inside the basketball program that came to a head when you had 4 players leave in a very short amount of time, an assistant was let go for lying about taking money to influence players, and the head coach seriously considered another job.

samuel considering an nba future is not a dark cloud. kevin was highly regarded coming out of high school in houston and this is more the natural progression of his career choices. truthfully a kid like samuel getting taken in the draft would be a selling point for the program to future recruits who want to follow a similar path.

i believe he should come back as his skill set is not highly valued in the nba right now, but i think some on this board better get ready for the idea that some of these highly touted basketball recruits are not going to stay for the full 4 years and i don't mean transferring elsewhere.

The no-mans land is when you get kids that aren't good enough to win you anything but are singularly focused on playing professional basketball and are good enough to leave early and land somewhere. Not sure how a coach and program can manage that, but I hope we don't go there.

One thing is pretty much a given, all the good momentum that the program built in Dixon's first 2-3 years is for the most part gone. Almost seems like we're starting over to an extent. And that's even if Bane and Samuel come back.
 

Eight

Member
The no-mans land is when you get kids that aren't good enough to win you anything but are singularly focused on playing professional basketball and are good enough to leave early and land somewhere. Not sure how a coach and program can manage that, but I hope we don't go there.

One thing is pretty much a given, all the good momentum that the program built in Dixon's first 2-3 years is for the most part gone. Almost seems like we're starting over to an extent. And that's even if Bane and Samuel come back.

there are a number of programs that have been able to blend kids who are short timers with kids who are system kids.

the key is you have to have your core group that provide the backbone and then you snap in and out the individuals who have those singular talents to raise the program.

i think right now after three seasons with the roster upheaval you don't have those core pieces in place at a time when you do have a potential singular talent coming to campus.

you simply can not lose 60% of your recruiting classes and expect to build anything and that is the situation tcu finds itself after 3 years with dixon. 9 of the 15 players he and his staff recruited in his first 3 classes either never made it to campus or are gone and 2 of those remaining 6 could possibly be gone before next year.
 

jake102

Active Member
I get it for Bane, he has been a very good player and only has one more year left to make it happen.

Makes no sense for Samuel. He's not close and has three years left.
 

Froggish

Active Member
I can save Samuel some valuable time away from the gym...

Find a few post moves and learn to defend the pick-n-roll...There is no place in todays college or pro game for a guy who can’t defend or recover on the pick-n-roll. I think Samuel needs another few years and could be an NBA pick..He’s not that guy currently nor is he close enough for a team to gamble on
 

Eight

Member
I get it for Bane, he has been a very good player and only has one more year left to make it happen.

Makes no sense for Samuel. He's not close and has three years left.

how many 5's in the nba do more than set picks on offense, catch a few lobs, rebound, and block shots?

great when you have a big who can shoot from the floor and handle the ball, but on every bench in the nba you have guys whose whole existence is the ability to do the dirty work down low.

samuel in all honesty is closer to being able to do that in my mind than bane playing as a 2 in the nba.

doesn't mean i think kevin would not benefit from another season, but much of what he would be asked to do is based on his size, athletic ability, and willingness to play with toughness over the skills of an nba perimeter player.
 

Froggish

Active Member
how many 5's in the nba do more than set picks on offense, catch a few lobs, rebound, and block shots?

great when you have a big who can shoot from the floor and handle the ball, but on every bench in the nba you have guys whose whole existence is the ability to do the dirty work down low.

samuel in all honesty is closer to being able to do that in my mind than bane playing as a 2 in the nba.

doesn't mean i think kevin would not benefit from another season, but much of what he would be asked to do is based on his size, athletic ability, and willingness to play with toughness over the skills of an nba perimeter player.

I 100% agree with this....Bane is our best player but the NBA expectations for a 2 guard are off the chart...He has to seamlessly blend between the 1 and 2 with the occasional ability to defend the 3 spot...Bane has never even had the offense run through him..I have my doubts that he can even get his shot off against NBA 2s.
 

Wexahu

Full Member
I 100% agree with this....Bane is our best player but the NBA expectations for a 2 guard are off the chart...He has to seamlessly blend between the 1 and 2 with the occasional ability to defend the 3 spot...Bane has never even had the offense run through him..I have my doubts that he can even get his shot off against NBA 2s.

Bane is a nice college player but he's probably closer to 6'3" than 6'5" (with short arms), zero chance of playing PG in the NBA, and relative to the competition, isn't a very good outside shooter and can't really create his shot off the dribble in the half court. Where the heck is he going to play on a NBA floor? Best case he latches on to a team overseas and manages to create a niche for himself there.

You can't teach size, and at least Samuel has that.
 

Froginbedford

Full Member
I confess to being not savvy in most instances in college sports...I just enjoy the games and what was once a bit of purity in the game at the college level as opposed to the professional (but that has evaporated quickly in the last couple of years)....But, in the case of players declaring for the drafts, does doing so automatically remove the person from the college program/scholarship? If not, and the player is not taken by the pro league, does the campus program have to allow the player to return? If the player is allowed to return to the college program, what emotional/psychological detriment for the individual and the teammates would that create?
 

Eight

Member
I confess to being not savvy in most instances in college sports...I just enjoy the games and what was once a bit of purity in the game at the college level as opposed to the professional (but that has evaporated quickly in the last couple of years)....But, in the case of players declaring for the drafts, does doing so automatically remove the person from the college program/scholarship? If not, and the player is not taken by the pro league, does the campus program have to allow the player to return? If the player is allowed to return to the college program, what emotional/psychological detriment for the individual and the teammates would that create?

a player may declare for the nba, go through the evaluation process which could mean being invited to pre-draft camps and working out against other possible draftees, and in the end be given an evaluation of how they are projected as an nba player.

as long as they don't sign with an agent they are eligible to return to play ncaa ball if they opt to pull their name for the draft. i can't speak to what would happen if a player stays in the draft and isn't taken, but i am sure somehow here can clarify that point for you.

in regards to the detriment of the player if they are told they don't measure up yet i am not sure how that is a bad thing. consider if that with each time you applied for a job you were given a clear and concise review of your strengths, weaknesses, and where you need to improve to make yourself more marketable?

finally, in regards to their relationship with their teammates i don't see how that would be skewed and in response to the program this is something schools have been dealing with for several years now so this isn't something new to ncaa basketball.
 

MTfrog5

Active Member
a player may declare for the nba, go through the evaluation process which could mean being invited to pre-draft camps and working out against other possible draftees, and in the end be given an evaluation of how they are projected as an nba player.

as long as they don't sign with an agent they are eligible to return to play ncaa ball if they opt to pull their name for the draft. i can't speak to what would happen if a player stays in the draft and isn't taken, but i am sure somehow here can clarify that point for you.

in regards to the detriment of the player if they are told they don't measure up yet i am not sure how that is a bad thing. consider if that with each time you applied for a job you were given a clear and concise review of your strengths, weaknesses, and where you need to improve to make yourself more marketable?

finally, in regards to their relationship with their teammates i don't see how that would be skewed and in response to the program this is something schools have been dealing with for several years now so this isn't something new to ncaa basketball.
Pretty sure the new rule this year is that they can even have an agent but have to take their name out of the draft like 10 days before
 

netty2424

Full Member
I confess to being not savvy in most instances in college sports...I just enjoy the games and what was once a bit of purity in the game at the college level as opposed to the professional (but that has evaporated quickly in the last couple of years)....But, in the case of players declaring for the drafts, does doing so automatically remove the person from the college program/scholarship? If not, and the player is not taken by the pro league, does the campus program have to allow the player to return? If the player is allowed to return to the college program, what emotional/psychological detriment for the individual and the teammates would that create?
Should be every players goal to take that next step. How could a teammate fault another teammate for wanting to dip their toe in the water to see if it’s warm.

If anything, they come back and have a teammate with nba potential.
 

Rose Bowl

Active Member
Bane has two problems in regard to the NBA. First is he is not a plus defender who can guard multiple positions. Second is he is not accomplished at getting his own shot. He did shoot 42.5% from three so making shots isn’t his main problem.

As for Samuel, he has a chance to play in the league someday but it isn’t now. He has to find a shot from 15 feet and he must become a much stronger defender. We can’t run a PnP with him because he can’t shoot and his PnR defense was atrocious at times.
 
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