Gotta agree here. The Rose Bowl was awesome but by then we were an established program and were favored to win the game. At the Sun Bowl we were massive underdogs to mighty USC and had not had much success in the prior 40 years. We were still really hurting from being kicked out of the SWC. We were so low that the USC band even took turns spitting on the Froghorn before the game and their players were dismissive and arrogant as well. I can't describe the joy I felt when we not only won but totally kicked their butt. What a great day for long suffering Frog fans.
Greatest Win in Horned Frog History
- Thread starter Genbukan
- Start date
Gotta agree here. The Rose Bowl was awesome but by then we were an established program and were favored to win the game. At the Sun Bowl we were massive underdogs to mighty USC and had not had much success in the prior 40 years. We were still really hurting from being kicked out of the SWC. We were so low that the USC band even took turns spitting on the Froghorn before the game and their players were dismissive and arrogant as well. I can't describe the joy I felt when we not only won but totally kicked their butt. What a great day for long suffering Frog fans.
ShreveFrog
Full Member
Deep convinced me that the '38 Sugar Bowl is the biggest win. Sun Bowl was a great day, but still does not compare to the Rose.
chhspantherfan
Member
#1 Rose Bowl
#2 Utah
#3 Arky '81
#4 Sun Bowl vs USC
#5 TX '67
was at all but Sun Bowl. TX '67 was my alltime favorite as I was a child and this SOB behind us picked on me all day. Then Bubba ran the punt back, we scored 18 unanswered I believe, and the fat longhorn man was reduced to getting dissed by a 6 year old.
#2 Utah
#3 Arky '81
#4 Sun Bowl vs USC
#5 TX '67
was at all but Sun Bowl. TX '67 was my alltime favorite as I was a child and this SOB behind us picked on me all day. Then Bubba ran the punt back, we scored 18 unanswered I believe, and the fat longhorn man was reduced to getting dissed by a 6 year old.
Frog-in-law1995
Active Member
You sure about that Sun Bowl spread? I was thinking it was in the mid-teens. I could be wrong, though.
Frog DJ
Active Member
I can't argue with the logic behind the '38 Sugar Bowl or the Rose Bowl, however I have one game I'd just like to mention.
In 1957, TCU had Jim Swink, Chuck Curtis, Jim Shofner and John Nikkel on a 2-way squad that walked through the SWC.
They faced down a Jim Brown-led Syracuse team in the Cotton Bowl 28-27 that shocked the nation and the football world.
As good as he had been that year, Swink was actually outgained rushing by FB Buddy Dike 54 to 41 yards, but Swink added 60 yards receiving.
Both were eclipsed by Brown's amazing 26 carries for 132 yards, as the Orangemen rolled up over 200 yards rushing for the day.
It was one of the greatest back-and-forth games in Cotton Bowl history, and was only decided when Chico Mendoza burst through the line to block Brown's third PAT attempt.
I'll admit it was not as monumental as the '38 Sugar or the Rose, but this was a huge Frog win that was further proof TCU was one of the nation's top programs in the '50's.
I was 9-years old, and lived 3 blocks from Berry Street. These guys were my heroes, and I'll never forget it.
Go Frogs! Do It Now!
In 1957, TCU had Jim Swink, Chuck Curtis, Jim Shofner and John Nikkel on a 2-way squad that walked through the SWC.
They faced down a Jim Brown-led Syracuse team in the Cotton Bowl 28-27 that shocked the nation and the football world.
As good as he had been that year, Swink was actually outgained rushing by FB Buddy Dike 54 to 41 yards, but Swink added 60 yards receiving.
Both were eclipsed by Brown's amazing 26 carries for 132 yards, as the Orangemen rolled up over 200 yards rushing for the day.
It was one of the greatest back-and-forth games in Cotton Bowl history, and was only decided when Chico Mendoza burst through the line to block Brown's third PAT attempt.
I'll admit it was not as monumental as the '38 Sugar or the Rose, but this was a huge Frog win that was further proof TCU was one of the nation's top programs in the '50's.
I was 9-years old, and lived 3 blocks from Berry Street. These guys were my heroes, and I'll never forget it.
Go Frogs! Do It Now!
NubomTurk
Tier 1
Well played, sir.
TheSheik
Active Member
The question is greatest win in TCU history not game that led to the greatest win. If your teams greatest win is a victory in the Sun Bowl you probably have a long way to go.
Its the Rose Bowl no question
Nothing against the Sugar Bowl national championship but I think we should hang our hats on something that happened at LEAST in the last 50 years. No disrespect to my elders :mellow:
Its the Rose Bowl no question
Nothing against the Sugar Bowl national championship but I think we should hang our hats on something that happened at LEAST in the last 50 years. No disrespect to my elders :mellow:
Pharm Frog
Full Member
The 2011 Rose Bowl. Not only will this never be surpassed in its "greatness" for me relative to TCU, but there is exactly no other team sporting event that will ever compare (not Super Bowl, not World Series, not NBA championship, not BCS National Championship Game, not Final Four wins, not Olympic victory, not anything) The earliest childhood memory I have (exempting those memories artificially generated by reel-to-reel film) is of watching the Tournament of Roses Parade and the Rose Bowl with my dad and my maternal grandfather. One disclaimer: I reserve the right to alter this opinion if either of my children are participants in some event in the future,or if the Frogs win the national championship in the Rose Bowl (and I'm really not sure that the second time around would be as sweet). Other than that... I suspect that I've seen the pinnacle of "greatness".
It was like listening to Anthony Kearns sing Ave Maria in St. Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin. Just can't get any better.....
It was like listening to Anthony Kearns sing Ave Maria in St. Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin. Just can't get any better.....
KillerFrog InD KitchenSink
Active Member
Sun Bowl is overrated by TCU fans at least in terms of importance of getting the program rolling. Sure it was a big win, probably one of the top ones, but I think we have basically the same trajectory as a program even with a loss in that minor bowl.
OTOH, the significance of the Rose Bowl win cannot be overstated in terms of validating where we are, and where the program is.
OTOH, the significance of the Rose Bowl win cannot be overstated in terms of validating where we are, and where the program is.
Deep Purple
Full Member
Exactly. ftwfrog says the Sun Bowl doesn't compare to the Rose Bowl. I agree completely. But the question isn't bout the greatest bowl game we've ever played in. If it were, the '38 Sugar Bowl would still be #1. It was a much more important game, much more was at stake, and we won much greater glory there.
The question was about the greatest TCU win, not the greatest bowl game. I take that to mean "greatest" in terms of what the win accomplished for the TCU program. Again, the '38 Sugar Bowl unquestionably comes in first. As for the Sun Bowl, it is not as great an honor as the Rose Bowl, no doubt. But we didn't stun the nation at the Rose Bowl. We had more than a decade of football success behind us. We were favored to win the game. And we advanced from #3 to #2, a great accomplishment, but not a huge leap. Great as that game was, it was no huge leap forward for our program. It was another important step up on the Pyramid of Success the football program has been working on for 10 years.
The Sun Bowl was completely different. We were coming out of nowhere. The previous season, we'd had only 1 win. We got the bowl invitation as a 6-5 team, and then only because the WAC powers were PO'd at the breakaway MWC schools, several of whom had better records and had experienced far more recent success than us. We were HUGE underdogs, more the 4 TD's. Absolutely nobody -- and this probably includes most TCU fans -- thought we had a prayer of winning it. Most just hoped that in losing, we'd beat the spread.
Not only did we beat the spread and win the game, we controlled it from the opening kickoff. We manhandled the Men of Troy, holding them to negative rushing yardage, and racking up so much rushing yardage ourselves that we left their All-American, Butkus Award-winning, NFL-bound linebacker cursing on the sidelines.
Ever see the movie "Hoosiers"? This is what the '98 Sun Bowl was for TCU. We really did stun the nation. And we didn't fade into the night afterwards. It rejuvenated the program. It instilled a pride and confidence we'd not seen in 35 years. It triggered a 13-year rise in TCU football fortunes that is still ongoing. We're about to enter the 14th year of it.
I say again: Apart from the 1998 Sun Bowl, it's very unlikely there would have been any undefeated 2009 and 2010 seasons or any Rose Bowl in our future.
NNM
I can eat 50 eggs
Dogfrog
Active Member
No offense taken since that game was played many years before I was born. But I can't relegate the only consensus National Championship in TCU history as secondary to any other game. Davy O'Brien is our Babe Ruth. It doesn't matter how long ago it was.
Excuse me... in 1938 TCU went into the 1939 Sugar Bowl as a 10-0, #1 in the Nation.... They played a # 6 Carnegie Tech who was 7-1, then won the game by 8 points. The Frogs had 367 total offense to Tech's 188... basically owning them as their rankings would dictate. Now, if they had beaten #2 Tennessee(10-0) or #4 OU(10-0) that year... then I would have voted for the 1939 Sugar Bowl game, hands down.
The 2011 Rose Bowl was about a little sister of the poor(from a 2nd tier conference) kicking Gordon Gee between the legs and out playing the Hottest Team in College Football during the last half of the 2010 season. There were 2 teams that none of the Big Boys(SEC or elsewhere) wanted to play in a Bowl... and that was Wisconsin and Stanford.
Cheers !
The 2011 Rose Bowl was about a little sister of the poor(from a 2nd tier conference) kicking Gordon Gee between the legs and out playing the Hottest Team in College Football during the last half of the 2010 season. There were 2 teams that none of the Big Boys(SEC or elsewhere) wanted to play in a Bowl... and that was Wisconsin and Stanford.
Cheers !
Ray Finkle
Active Member
2005 over OU will always bring good memories to mind. We didn't go to a bowl the year before and were 26.5 dogs going into the stadium of the team who played in the national championship game the year before. No one saw this coming. I was just hoping we would cover the spread and not embarass ourselves. It proved TCU was not a flash in the pan program and that even after a down year, we could rebuild. I think my friends and I were in more shock than the OU fans. It was a great day.
ftwfrog
Active Member
I love this argument, because I know I'm right
Once again, you are comparing Sun Bowl to the Mother(Craig James) Rose Bowl!!. You talk about a win that put us on the map?? Nobody, other than Frog fans watched the Sun Bowl, what was it 10 am on New Years morning?? It is counted as one of the "other 35 consolation" bowl games. The Rose Bowl is the grandaddy of them all. People who know nothing about football were introduced to Tank, Andy, Teejay, and legendary head coach Gary Patterson on this glorious day in January.
Secondly, we were not 4 TD underdogs. I was in Vegas and the spread was between 13.5 and 19. While the Rose bowl we were the Vegas favorites, none of the experts thought we could matchup with the big Wisconsin O line, and we pretty much Shut them down.
Now if you want to compare te '38 national championship, sure, but I didn't see it and neither did you. It's like comparing Cy Young to Tim Lincecum. I have no frame of reference. I do know that milllions of people got to see us won the Rose Bowl, while thousands of people tea about the sugar bowl in the paper the next morning. Like a fan said before me, no disrepect to our elders, our only Heisman winners or Dutch himself, but Nothing, Nothing will ever surpass the Rose Bowl.
Frognosticator
Tier 1
Not to nitpick, but we were "only" 16 point dogs in that game. We were 28 pt dogs to OU in 2005.
Duquesne Frog
Member
I love this argument, because I know I'm right
Once again, you are comparing Sun Bowl to the Mother(Craig James) Rose Bowl!!. You talk about a win that put us on the map?? Nobody, other than Frog fans watched the Rose Bowl, what was it 10 am on New Years morning?? It is counted as one of the "other 35 consolation" bowl games. The Rose Bowl is the grandaddy of them all. People who know nothing about football were introduced to Tank, Andy, Teejay, and legendary head coach Gary Patterson on this glorious day in January.
Secondly, we were not 4 TD underdogs. I was in Vegas and the spread was between 13.5 and 19. While the Rose bowl we were the Vegas favorites, none of the experts thought we could matchup with the big Wisconsin O line, and we pretty much Shut them down.
Now if you want to compare te '38 national championship, sure, but I didn't see it and neither did you. It's like comparing Cy Young to Tim Lincecum. I have no frame of reference. I do know that milllions of people got to see us won the Rose Bowl, while thousands of people tea about the sugar bowl in the paper the next morning. Like a fan said before me, no disrepect to our elders, our only Heisman winners or Dutch himself, but Nothing, Nothing will ever surpass the Rose Bowl.
Comparing those two games straight up, you are right, there is no comparison. A win in El Paso against a mediocre USC team versus a win in the Granddaddy Of Them All. But the thing we can't compare at this point was the implication of that game to the program's future, because the Rose Bowl was too recent. But there is an argument to be made (one that can't be proven, but one that a lot of us believe to be true) that the TCU program of the 2000's and the Rose Bowl do not happen if not for the Sun Bowl.
The other thing to consider about the Sun Bowl is this: The stars aligned and the football gods conspired to get us in that game to begin with. Remember that the Sun Bowl passed over Wyoming, Utah, and Colorado State, all of whom had better records than TCU and/or had beaten TCU that year, primarily because those schools had announced their departure to the MWC prior to that game, ditching longtime conference-mates and significant bowl trustees in UTEP. TCU had absolutely no business being in that game, but because the Sun Bowl trustees were miffed at the Gang of 5, they took a shot on a barely .500 TCU team. That game should have never happened. There is a fatalistic/destiny/mythological aspect of that Sun Bowl game that is hard to shake.
At this point, we don't really know what the Rose Bowl will ultimately mean for the program. If I were to personally rank those games, I'd probably put the Rose Bowl above the Sun, on the epic merits of the game in of themselves, but it is a very, very close call, in my mind. Just like the capture of Berlin probably doesn't happen without D-Day, I'm not sure the Rose Bowl happens without the Sun Bowl.
Which, by that analogy, I guess the entirety of the 1997 season was our Pearl Harbor ...
IMO any game that does not result in a NC cannot be considered the "greatest."
I rank them:
1 1938 NC team Sugar Bowl win over Carnegie Tech for concensus NC
2 1935 NC team Sugar Bowl win over LSU for NC (won NC in the Ray Bryne and Williamson Polls)
3 2010 #2 team Rose Bowl win over Wisconson (actually finished #1 in 3 computer polls)
4 1932 team (no Bowl) 10-0-1 won SWC in final game over SMU (finished #1 in Ray Bryne Poll a nationally recognized poll at the time).
These 4 must rank as the top 4 because all resulted in some form of NC.
After that lots of choices such as 1957 Cotton Bowl, 1998 Sun Bowl, 1937 Cotton Bowl, 1981 Arkansas, 1955, 1956, 1965, 1967 Texas, 1958 TxAM, 2005 OU, 2009, 2010 Utah.
I rank them:
1 1938 NC team Sugar Bowl win over Carnegie Tech for concensus NC
2 1935 NC team Sugar Bowl win over LSU for NC (won NC in the Ray Bryne and Williamson Polls)
3 2010 #2 team Rose Bowl win over Wisconson (actually finished #1 in 3 computer polls)
4 1932 team (no Bowl) 10-0-1 won SWC in final game over SMU (finished #1 in Ray Bryne Poll a nationally recognized poll at the time).
These 4 must rank as the top 4 because all resulted in some form of NC.
After that lots of choices such as 1957 Cotton Bowl, 1998 Sun Bowl, 1937 Cotton Bowl, 1981 Arkansas, 1955, 1956, 1965, 1967 Texas, 1958 TxAM, 2005 OU, 2009, 2010 Utah.
2314@work
Contributor
Greatest victory since the last game of the '38 season for the national championship. Being around the same age, I agree it is in our lifetime. I also enjoyed the '81 Arkansas game, but the game that honestly sent TCU back into big-time football without a doubt had to be the 1998 Sun Bowl. Those of us who were there sensed a big change would occur after that win. And we shared a feeling none of us had ever had. I have never been more satisfied walking out of a stadium after a TCU win. Even better than 23-14.
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