FWST: TCU has full house, but BYU, Fredette have easy win

[TopFrog]

FWST: TCU has full house, but BYU, Fredette have easy win

By Big Steaming Pile
tengel@ star-telegram.com

To the remaining fans who are tired of TCU basketball and the shape it's in and are totally convinced that hiring Billy Gillispie, or Fictitious Coach X, is the ticket to a 20-win record, give that part up.

Coach Jim Christian is not going to be fired today, tomorrow, this season, next season or probably the season after that. His boss sounds committed.

"Basketball had three scholarship players when [Christian was hired]," TCU director of athletics Chris Del Conte said after the Horned Frogs lost 79-56 against BYU on Saturday. "It's not like the team was stacked with players. You have to look at the hand he was dealt. This is not cut and dry. I know we all want instant results, but this is a building process. I know people are frustrated.

"Every year you look at the product of where we've been and where we're going. At the end of every year we will see what we can do to get better." ...

 

[TopFrog]

Native Frog, er, Mac, good to see you and the FWST sports dept. took the criticisms from two weeks ago to heart and packaged your article as a Big Steaming Pile column, and making it a straight column rather than a mix of game story/opinion.

I would like to see a locally written game story to go with the column, which I don't see online other than the AP game story. Surely the print version didn't run the AP game story and your column?

Also it is questionable to have a beat writer do opinion pieces. Smaller newspapers with just a few people on staff might resort to that, personally I'm not for that. Should be done by separate writers and the FWST should have enough resources that if you want to be a columnist, fine, do that and let someone else be a secondary beat guy to Stephan (who BTW never does an opinion piece, not one I can recall, and he shouldn't).

We have a very small weekly out our way and the editor will be covering a new story on one page and writing an op-ed about it on the opinion page, then back to covering the story. As you know, that is poor journalism as you have comprised yourself as a reporter who is expected to at least not show their opinion so they can appear fair and impartial. My sports editor can write columns if he chooses, but I would make sure -- and he already knows -- he has to be careful what he writes because of the effect it can have on him in his regular coverage and with his sources and contacts.

If you are there to cover the game, and you are the only one, then at least provide a game story to provide some numbers, stats, the obligatory post-game comments, team records, etc. Then if you really want to do an opinion piece, do one that accompanies the game story.

But good to see the FWST practice some better journalistic principles by at least packaging your piece as clearly a column, IMO. I don't think that was done previously (at least apparent in the online version like it was today by putting your name in the headline).

 

[Young and Horned]

The teams are worse than CDC in my opinion.

And the headline should read "BYU and Fredette own TCU with full house and easy win." No?

 

[NativeFrog]

Top, you left off the "In my opinion" when you cut and paste to start this string. Was that intentional? When are you going to apply to be the Star-Telegram's Sports Editor. You should get paid for giving your advice and direction.

 

[FeistyFrog]

Interesting to say CJC had only 3 scholly players when he started, because he actually had 8 as he inherited Kevin Butler who committed and signed early under CND. Even if you don't count Butler the #3 is off (Langford, Mitchem, Morones, Ortiz, Ebie, Lancon and Scott who he ran off early). Since then he has ran off more of his own players than that and in his 4th class so far he has signed not a one during the crucial early signing date when most of the better players sign so he is again left to finding the best of the rest.

CJC signings (including transfrs) over the years:

2008-2009
Gregory Richardson -JUCO gone before the seasonended
Edvinas Ruzgas JUCO
Zvonko Buljan JUCO
Ronnie Moss true FR and probably his best recruit but is now suspended
Kavon Rose Tru FR ran off after 1 year
Marin Bacvevic- FR

2009-2010
Cheick Kone
Xavier Roberson-gone
Greg Hill-FR
Dernodo Eiland -gone
Garlon Green-FR
Nikola Cerine=FR
Hank Thorns-trans

2010-2011
Amric Fields-early signee
JR Cadot-JUCO
Jarvis Ray -FR
Andre Clark-gone
Nikola Gaseca-Trans
Sammy Yeager-JUCO gone

2011-2012
NADA so far

 

[FeistyFrog]

Consider Butler in the mix (who he ran off eventually) that first group he inherited from CND is probably the best team he has put on the floor so far at TCU.

The guy is a revolving door with players and I think kids looking at the school see that and it will be harder and herder to bring good players in. Running off Butler wasn't a good idea considering he is from the top programs in the country.

 

[FeistyFrog]

"Basketball had three scholarship players when [Christian was hired]," TCU director of athletics Chris Del Conte said after the Horned Frogs lost 79-56 against BYU on Saturday. "It's not like the team was stacked with players. You have to look at the hand he was dealt. This is not cut and dry. I know we all want instant results, but this is a building process. I know people are frustrated. "Every year you look at the product of where we've been and where we're going. At the end of every year we will see what we can do to get better."


All of this is complete BS and too bad no one called him on his statements. Also would be nice to get an explanation on the 2 year extension. Why was that even considered much less finalized?

8 scholly players from CND and CJC has not put a better team on the court since then. Bottom line is this team is going backwards and really not much farther to fall to hit rock bottom.

 

[Portland Frog]

Also none of the fans expect instant results. However at the end of the third year with this staff, it is no longer an "instant" scenario. Please.

 

[Salfrog]

All of this proves what I stated before. CDC & TCU is not going to do anything about the sad state that the MBB program is in. They will just sit back & watch while it becomes a total waste. Oh wait a minute, its already there and still nothing is going to be done.

The MBB programs demise can all be traced back to Hyman & a few donors that had a problem with Tubbs. If they would have left him alone to do what he did best, coach, we wouldn't be where we are now. Instead they were all trying to tell Tubbs how to run his program. He basically told them to run along & fix the other programs that needed to be fixed. Their egos got shot in the process, so they sabotaged his ability to recruit when they wouldn't extend his contract any further. So because some "important" people got their feelings hurt, we sit here 2 coaching tenures later watching crap being played in DMC.

I'm not saying Christian isn't a good coach, but as someone pointed out in a earlier post. He just isn't a good fit for TCU. It is not working, and high school coaches just don't think very much of him in the area. Just like some players don't fit in, but go on to another school and become great players.

We need a change, but truth was stated today in the paper by CDC himself. Christian isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so enjoy football, WBB, and baseball because MBB will be non-existent for another 3-4 yrs.

 

[Pinkyfrog]

2008-2009
Ronnie Moss true FR and probably his best recruit but is now suspended

2009-2010
Greg Hill-FR

Greg is a year older than Tuffy, he's a transfer from midland college

 

[TopFrog]

Top, you left off the "In my opinion" when you cut and paste to start this string. Was that intentional? When are you going to apply to be the Star-Telegram's Sports Editor. You should get paid for giving your advice and direction.

Not sure what you're talking about. I don't see "In My Opinion: accompanying the online story?

Let me know when the sports editor position is open. I'm a 25-year journalist.

 

[TopFrog]

All of this is complete BS and too bad no one called him on his statements.

Yeah, good job going back and checking that. Too bad the writer of this piece didn't. He should have as that statement, especially using it in the story, is a shocker and something you'd think you would check out to see if a true statement.

 

[sandiegojack]

I don't see how JC can recruit any decent players into this shipwreck. I am sure that the reason for all the foreign players and ones from other states is the difficulty of getting a Texas kid that sees how bad it is to come to TCU.
I feel sorry for the kids he brings in. The attrition rate is alarming and an embarrasment.

All our football players have such great memories of the TCU careers, but I doubt if any of our recent basketball players have any good memories of their TCU careers. Lopsided loses and empty stands are not much to remember.

Coming in last place in the MWC for a school like TCU is not acceptable regardless of the reason.

 

[Young and Horned]

You have to think top Texas players who want to play in the top basketball conference would look into staying close to home. I know we are a wreck, but eventually they are going to come to TCU to play basketball.

Would help if we had a better place to play and a program that looked better on the upside, but that can be established.

 

[Portland Frog]

You have to think top Texas players who want to play in the top basketball conference would look into staying close to home.

But what if the current staff remains in place? One team in the BE (St Johns) turned it around only after bringing in a "name" (Lavin). They have been terrible for years in the BE until just this year when he was hired. DePaul continues to struggle, and they are in the BE. The conference affiliation hasn't lead to better talent/wins for them.

I hope you are right, but it may just be the case that the assumed "bump" in talent because of the BE membership just doesn't materialize with this staff at the helm. The best local talent may continue to flock to UT, A&M, Baylor, and the other Big 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC, etc programs, until a change is made, especially if the staff isn't developing solid relationships with local high schools as a few have stated on the forum.

Who wants to join a train wreck, even if it is in the Big East?

 

[Young and Horned]

But what if the current staff remains in place? One team in the BE (St Johns) turned it around only after bringing in a "name" (Lavin). They have been terrible for years in the BE until just this year when he was hired. DePaul continues to struggle, and they are in the BE. The conference affiliation hasn't lead to better talent/wins for them.

I hope you are right, but it may just be the case that the assumed "bump" in talent because of the BE membership just doesn't materialize with this staff at the helm. The best local talent may continue to flock to UT, A&M, Baylor, and the other Big 12, Big 10, SEC, ACC, etc programs, until a change is made, especially if the staff isn't developing solid relationships with local high schools as a few have stated on the forum.

Who wants to join a train wreck, even if it is in the Big East?

True. I think CJC should be gone if he doesnt have a good year next year. I am not too thrilled about Billy G. Wish we could find someone who has a little better character to come in and build the program, but our program may be past that. We may only survive with him.

 

[sandiegojack]

It makes no sense to go one more year with JC, then bring a new coach in to face the Big East with a last place team in the MWC.

sdj

 

[masterfrog]

True. I think CJC should be gone if he doesnt have a good year next year. I am not too thrilled about Billy G. Wish we could find someone who has a little better character to come in and build the program, but our program may be past that. We may only survive with him.

We should hire Tim Miles from Colorado State. They were 0-16 in the MWC when he was hired and they are the third place team now. With our upcoming affiliation with the Big East he would take this job in a second.

Plus, I saw where he bought pizza for the first 500 fans in the door for their home game this week. I wish we had a coach who thought outside the box and did things like this to attract the students.

 

[Young and Horned]

It makes no sense to go one more year with JC, then bring a new coach in to face the Big East with a last place team in the MWC.

sdj

I doubt a new coach already far behind in the recruiting journey is going to do much better next year with the same players. Should we get a new coach this year, probably. It is going to happen? Not likely. And if it doesn't, means the payout goes down for when we do need to let him go.

I agree. Christian is not the guy. And I agree that we need to change now to shorten the rebuilding process. But, I do not see it happening this year. Mainly because CDC is a money man. And I really do think that he rather get dominated in basketball then have to pay $5 million to fire Christian.

 

[TopFrog]

And I really do think that he rather get dominated in basketball then have to pay $5 million to fire Christian.

Now it's $5 million?