Diehards: Deante Gray calls debate over paying players ‘laughable’ after NCAA earnings report

[flyfishingfrog]

You could be right, but there's absolutely no way to prove it. I kinda doubt it, inasmuch as the largest "university" in the country, Phoenix, doesn't seem to have a very good athletic program.

that's your comparison? a for profit university that is online?

What was TCU before we had a top tier football program? what is it now? that difference is 99.999999% due to athletics.

 

[flyfishingfrog]

i didn't realize the ncaa rules were in place to ensure a favorable growth environment for tcu

they aren't - TCU grew their brand by taking a huge risk instead of just shutting down programs back when they were financial drains.

the point I was responding to was that we could just divest our athletics programs and the university system would be able to redirect the money to other scholarships - my point is the two are not disparate - the school would be much smaller with the teams, the teams would have almost no fans without the school

 

[flyfishingfrog]

not sure, don't know the resources available and it seems as an organization they struggle to regulate the rules they have in place.

the unknown however can not be a reason to not do something. seriously i don't know how some of you get out of freaking bed each day with the doom and gloom and worst case attitudes.

live isn't static, change will happen regardless, and in the tired old cliche' the ncaa can either be the thermostat in this matter or the thermometer.

Doesn't take ruining the current system to see that paying players would result in very few sports being played and a small pool of schools playing them

 

[Eight]

"son, you come to UT and I can promise you if you set up a little autograph table every sunday afternoon outside your apartment you'll have at a minimum 100 people there that'll pay you $20 per signing. I'll see to it. That's $2,000 per week. That's at a minimum, but I can guarantee you that much. Now, what do you think about coming to play for the University of Texas".

How would you stop that? Set up a bunch of new rules to regulate that kind of stuff? You know that with the pressure that's on everyone to win, people would stop at nothing on this kind of stuff. Our big neighbors to the south would have a heyday.

once again you make up a story to fit your narrative.

you want to know how to regulate how much students make? i give you a tangible example that is currently in place. the fafsa pulls data from the student and their parents income taxes.

you immediately run to a situation that works outside the system, but interestingly enough is the very same problem the ncaa has with the current system. how do you track cash payments? do you really think the situation you play out isn't happening at certain schools under the current system? the ncaa has no way to track cash payments or cash cards or venmo transfers.

the problem is not why the players are getting paid, but how they are getting paid.

 

[Eight]

Doesn't take ruining the current system to see that paying players would result in very few sports being played and a small pool of schools playing them

where do some of you come up with this crap?

the current system is headed for problems, but burying your head in the sand is always the best solution to a problem.

 

[DickBumpastache]

That's not the NCAA's problem. Your beef should be with the pro leagues. It's not a right to be able to make a bunch of money playing a sport.

But it is a right for suits to claim 100% of revenue from said sports?

Again, a false choice.

 

[flyfishingfrog]

scholarship athletes should have the same rights as students on academic scholarships. as i mentioned before our youngest who is on a full academic to her university did book keeping work for a couple of small businesses and on her linkedin page it identifies she is an accounting/finance major at her school.

as has been pointed out multiple times if she was a tennis player, golfer, etc.. she could not advertise herself as a tennis player at any school in advertising coaching services for a summer job.

why? because some alum might pay a football recruit? so you penalize the other athletes for the sins committed in other sports? sports such as football and basketball in which cheating is already common place.

apply the same restrictions to using their likeness or bio as any other job under current ncaa rules. there is a specified dollar amount and schools' compliance departments are supposed to document wages. require athletes to file a fafsa for earnings.

the ncaa already lost on using the likeness of athletes for their own profit. they have lost individual cases where athletes have won to use their likeness. is this an issue the ncaa really needs to let the courts decide?

to be direct - tennis, golf, track ,etc athletes are lucky they even have scholarships in those sports - so why should the schools risk ruining the programs that generate the money that pay for those sports scholarships so athletes that play them get more than is already given to them when the sport they chose to play couldn't even fund itself?

 

[flyfishingfrog]

where do some of you come up with this crap?

the current system is headed for problems, but burying your head in the sand is always the best solution to a problem.

and paying players or allowing players to benefit for their likeness will just kill it quickly - so lets do that.

Then you won't have to worry about your tennis player or golfer having restrictions - because only about 1/10 of them will have scholarships anymore just like women's sports before title 9 - when no one gave a crap about them and no school was forced to fund them.

I am guessing you must be under 40 and don't remember what women's sports was like when Universities were not required to provide scholarships for them?

 

[flyfishingfrog]

you want to know how to regulate how much students make? i give you a tangible example that is currently in place. the fafsa pulls data from the student and their parents income taxes.

.

What does a player having a high income have to do with athletics scholarships? Are you under the impression that a person making $1 million a year from another source of income besides being paid to play the game they are on scholarship from can't get an athletic scholarship?

 

[Eight]

What does a player having a high income have to do with athletics scholarships? Are you under the impression that a person making $1 million a year from another source of income besides being paid to play the game they are on scholarship from can't get an athletic scholarship?

where do you get this stuff? where in the world did i correlate income with qualifying for an athletic scholarship and where in the name of all things good and hold did you come up with the number of a million in income?

seriously, how many college scholarship athletes do you think have $1 million in passive income?

that comment is so bizarre i really don't know what else to say. seriously, what did that come from?

 

[Eight]

and paying players or allowing players to benefit for their likeness will just kill it quickly - so lets do that.

Then you won't have to worry about your tennis player or golfer having restrictions - because only about 1/10 of them will have scholarships anymore just like women's sports before title 9 - when no one gave a crap about them and no school was forced to fund them.

I am guessing you must be under 40 and don't remember what women's sports was like when Universities were not required to provide scholarships for them?

dude, over 40, self employed and you are so far base in so much of this i really don't know what to say.

seriously you are referencing college athletics in the 1970's for goodness sake. the ou and uga lawsuit to win control of their broadcast rights didn't happen until the early 80's and you use college sports in the 70's as a reference point? seriously dude i don't know what to tell you, but things change over time.

 

[Eight]

to be direct - tennis, golf, track ,etc athletes are lucky they even have scholarships in those sports - so why should the schools risk ruining the programs that generate the money that pay for those sports scholarships so athletes that play them get more than is already given to them when the sport they chose to play couldn't even fund itself?

you were pissed when they put in the child labor laws weren't you

 

[Wexahu]

But it is a right for suits to claim 100% of revenue from said sports?

Again, a false choice.

If they want to, sure. But first of all, they don't, they distribute about half a billion dollars to the universities that want to be under the NCAA's umbrella. SecondIy, I imagine if the NCAA wanted to keep all the revenue for themselves, universities would find another governing organization to conduct championships and set guidelines for their athletic programs and conduct championships.

The NCAA makes the rules, period. Athletes can either choose to follow them or not. It's capitalism. Those athletes that think they are getting exploited can go make as much money as they want to any way they can, they just can't compete in NCAA sanctioned events. There was nothing stopping Johnny Manziel from signing as many autographs as he wanted to for as much as he could get, he just couldn't play college football anymore had he chose to exercise that right. And if he doesn't want the school to make any money off selling #2 jerseys, fine, sue the NCAA I guess. The school will stop selling #2 Manziel jerseys and Johnny Football's college career will be over. Maybe everyone will be happy then.

 

[BABYFACE]

Quick thoughts:

I like this LVH guy.

Seems to be only 4 on this board advocating professionalizing collegiate sports.

I would have loved to have been on athletic scholarship and exploited as a few are saying.

My two high school daughters are willing to accept athletic scholarships in such deplorable conditions as a few have outlined.

Going to an affordable college while working is an option instead of accepting a full ride on athletic scholly. Or, don’t go to college and go straight to the workforce.

Most baseball players only get 1/3 scholarships. The NCAA and Title IV actually did scheiss baseball.

 

[Wexahu]

Quick thoughts:

I like this LVH guy.

Seems to be only 4 on this board advocating professionalizing collegiate sports.

I would have loved to have been on athletic scholarship and exploited as a few are saying.

My two high school daughters are willing to accept athletic scholarships in such deplorable conditions as a few have outlined.

Going to an affordable college while working is an option instead of accepting a full ride on athletic scholly. Or, don’t go to college and go straight to the workforce.

Most baseball players only get 1/3 scholarships. The NCAA and Title IV actually did scheiss baseball.

One of the biggest issues IMO is that so many of the athletes don't take advantage of the, in some cases, $250,000 scholarship they are getting, so they don't recognize the value of it. It can literally be worth millions of dollars over a lifetime if put to use right. More effort needs to be put on really getting the players educated rather than just pushing them through the easiest course loads and majors as possible. I would guess that not just a few players are graduating with a piece of paper but not many marketable skills that translate to the real world. I get it that the pressure to win is huge and sports takes up a huge chunk of their time, but D Gray even pointed this out, its very hard convincing 18-21 year old stud athletes that there's more to life than sports, especially those that didn't have much mentoring growing up. I bet most of these kids would see more value in $10,000 cash than a $60,000 scholarship.

 

[DickBumpastache]

If they want to, sure. But first of all, they don't, they distribute about half a billion dollars to the universities that want to be under the NCAA's umbrella. SecondIy, I imagine if the NCAA wanted to keep all the revenue for themselves, universities would find another governing organization to conduct championships and set guidelines for their athletic programs and conduct championships.

The NCAA makes the rules, period. Athletes can either choose to follow them or not. It's capitalism. Those athletes that think they are getting exploited can go make as much money as they want to any way they can, they just can't compete in NCAA sanctioned events. There was nothing stopping Johnny Manziel from signing as many autographs as he wanted to for as much as he could get, he just couldn't play college football anymore had he chose to exercise that right. And if he doesn't want the school to make any money off selling #2 jerseys, fine, sue the NCAA I guess. The school will stop selling #2 Manziel jerseys and Johnny Football's college career will be over. Maybe everyone will be happy then.

For one, I said suits. I did not specify NCAA or universities. And again, in no other industry is this tolerated.

You have outlined in perfect detail the false choice. The subjects have no say in what they are or are not allowed to do. It's modernized indentured servitude.

 

[Wexahu]

For one, I said suits. I did not specify NCAA or universities. And again, in no other industry is this tolerated.

You have outlined in perfect detail the false choice. The subjects have no say in what they are or are not allowed to do. It's modernized indentured servitude.

How do you figure? They can do whatever they want.

I work for a company, I have a contract that stipulates what I can and can't do that I agreed to. The higher ups in my company make money off of what I do. If there's an opportunity for me to make more money in my line of work I can certainly go do that but I can't work for my company anymore. If I don't want anyone to make money off of what I do and I want to venture out on my own, I can quit and start my own business.

Substitute contract with scholarship. At the very basic level, I don't see how this is any different.

 

[Wexahu]

For one, I said suits. I did not specify NCAA or universities. And again, in no other industry is this tolerated.

You have outlined in perfect detail the false choice. The subjects have no say in what they are or are not allowed to do. It's modernized indentured servitude.

You seem to coming at this from the point of view that if a high school kid is really, really good at football its his right to either make money playing the game or go to college for free. I don't see it that way at all. He's got a choice to either accept a college scholarship to play football and play under NCAA rules or not. Again, I realize he can't play in the NFL but that isn't the NCAA's problem. Maybe some 7 on 7 organizer can start an independent pro league and see how that works out, if it's really the players that bring in all the money that should be a viable league, right?

 

[DickBumpastache]

How do you figure? They can do whatever they want.

I work for a company, I have a contract that stipulates what I can and can't do that I agreed to. The higher ups in my company make money off of what I do. If there's an opportunity for me to make more money in my line of work I can certainly go do that but I can't work for my company anymore. If I don't want anyone to make money off of what I do and I want to venture out on my own, I can quit and start my own business.

Substitute contract with scholarship. At the very basic level, I don't see how this is any different.

You're getting paid. That's how it's different.

Is this that difficult to understand?

You seem to coming at this from the point of view that if a high school kid is really, really good at football its his right to either make money playing the game or go to college for free. I don't see it that way at all. He's got a choice to either accept a college scholarship to play football and play under NCAA rules or not. Again, I realize he can't play in the NFL but that isn't the NCAA's problem. Maybe some 7 on 7 organizer can start an independent pro league and see how that works out, if it's really the players that bring in all the money that should be a viable league, right?

You really need to research "false choice". You've been repeating it for about 12 hours now.

Because your position doesn't apply to any other profession in the civilized world.

And you still haven't put forward any defense of the NCAA's "right". You give me a justification of why:
- NCAA Administrators
- College administrators
- College athletic department officials
- Bowl organizers and officials
- Apparel companies
- TV Networks
- Coaches

Can name their price, and college athletes can't, and I'll change my tune.

 

[Casey T]

These players don't bring in the money, the school's team and logo bring in the money. All the eyeballs pay to watch their school's team play, they do not pay to watch the individual players and wouldn't pay to watch them play seperately from the school.

College brand brings in the $$, not the athletes.