• The KillerFrogs

Concerning playoff attendance

froginaustin

Active Member
There are almost always a whole lot of empty seats at these quarterfinal and semifinal games, even though the stadiums are small compared to just about every D1-A stadium.

Lots and lots of empty seats, even though the games are being played (as far as I can tell) in the home stadiums of the higher ranked teams.

Is this an inconvenient detail for the people that think that D1-A playoffs would generate huge crowds and mega payouts? Or simply lower-division programs being unable to sell tickets to post-season games while D1-A schools could?
 

AEAfrog

Active Member
I would be interested to see the playoff attendance numbers versus regular season numbers. Most of those schools have fairly low attendance numbers to start out with. I wouldn't be surprised to that the numbers are the same.
 

stell91

New Member
I live in Plano (I'm back from TCU on break) and Pizza Hut Park (the location of the FCS national championship) is 10 minutes from my house so I considered going. I looked at tickets online yesterday and there are ample seats available on the 30 yard lines. and the only sections sold out are the ones in between the 40s. Pizza Hut Park only seats 22,000 and the fact that the two teams playing are Eastern Washington and Delaware doesn't help matters.

That being said, attendance numbers (as a number and as a percentage of capacity) ARE much lower on average for FCS schools. I PROMISE you that if Ohio State and TCU were playing a playoff game it would be sold out no matter whose place it was at. I think the low attendance figures for the FCS playoff are due to the nature of FCS football, not the result of having a playoff.
 

ShivasFrog

Active Member
If a Div I-A playoff were held this year, these would be the first round pairings (using the final BCS rankings):

Bama @ Auburn
Nevada @ Oregon
OkState @ TCU
VTech @ Stanford
Mizzou @ Wisconsin
LSU @ tOSU
Boise @ OU
MichSt @ Arky

Only possible non-sellout I see is Stanford.

If the playoff slots were filled by the eleven I-A conference champs plus five at-larges, then the lower seeded MAC, Sunbelt, CUSA champs would be paired with Auburn, Oregon and TCU. I see sellouts in each of those games as well.
 

froginaustin

Active Member
Acquaintances of mine are fans of Pittsburg State (Kansas), a D2 school that's pretty good and has had a lot of success. The man is an ex-letterman, and works on a crew that maintains a BBQ cooker that's used for football tailgates, etc.

These folks get pretty weary of D2 playoff travel. They have been going to these playoff games for at least 40 years, on and off (more on than off).

The first year or so of playoffs would no doubt make a big splash. And I suppose that if a team made the playoffs for the first time (or first time in a while), fans would be excited. But if a program is actually good enough to go to the playoffs on at least a semi-regular basis, would the bloom come off the rose?

To answer my own question, I suppose that's why most proposals have at least the early playoff games played on someone's campus.
 

stell91

New Member
The first year or so of playoffs would no doubt make a big splash. And I suppose that if a team made the playoffs for the first time (or first time in a while), fans would be excited. But if a program is actually good enough to go to the playoffs on at least a semi-regular basis, would the bloom come off the rose?


I didn't even think of that. I guess traveling for playoffs could get quite annoying if your team made it every year. Personally, I don't know if I would go to EVERY SINGLE playoff game if TCU made the playoffs consistently.

I guess my other question would be how much would transporting the band/cheerleaders cost because that can be quite a pricey proposition.
 

ShivasFrog

Active Member
I was under the impression that all Div I-AA, II and III playoff games were played at the home of the higher seeded team (except the final).
 

froginaustin

Active Member
I was under the impression that all Div I-AA, II and III playoff games were played at the home of the higher seeded team (except the final).
Now that you mention it, I think that's correct.

One of the not-very-full stadiums that I noticed was at Appy State, who usually does a pretty good job of filling their +/- 20k-seat stadium. Although the TV cameras kept cutting away to show scenes (beautiful, unless one is trying to drive somewhere) of the snowy hills around Boone, NC.
 

ShivasFrog

Active Member
I just think selling out Div I-A playoff games would rarely be a problem. And so what if there was an occasional empty seat in the first round, most all of the huge money generated would come from the TV contract anyway.
 

TxFrog1999

The Man Behind The Curtain
It would be one thing if both teams had to travel to neutral sites for each round, but having a home game in the first round wouldn't be any different (sales-wise) than a late season home game. Imagine how many tickets we'd sell to another TCU home game in December, even if it was against an un-ranked Sunbelt or MAC champion.
 

10 Key Frog

Active Member
Acquaintances of mine are fans of Pittsburg State (Kansas), a D2 school that's pretty good and has had a lot of success. The man is an ex-letterman, and works on a crew that maintains a BBQ cooker that's used for football tailgates, etc.

These folks get pretty weary of D2 playoff travel. They have been going to these playoff games for at least 40 years, on and off (more on than off).

The first year or so of playoffs would no doubt make a big splash. And I suppose that if a team made the playoffs for the first time (or first time in a while), fans would be excited. But if a program is actually good enough to go to the playoffs on at least a semi-regular basis, would the bloom come off the rose?

To answer my own question, I suppose that's why most proposals have at least the early playoff games played on someone's campus.

But the flip side is at the D1-A level would we get many tickets to a road playoff game outside of a standard 2-3k allotment? If not even if someone doesn't go to every playoff game I'm sure we'd sell out a small road allotment like that. And for the home playoff games I'd expect most season ticket holders to make it and a big bump in sales to non season ticket holders.
 

froginaustin

Active Member
But the flip side is at the D1-A level would we get many tickets to a road playoff game outside of a standard 2-3k allotment? If not even if someone doesn't go to every playoff game I'm sure we'd sell out a small road allotment like that. And for the home playoff games I'd expect most season ticket holders to make it and a big bump in sales to non season ticket holders.
I hope you are right. And I hope that we get a chance to find out. :biggrin:
 

halfwaytoheaven

Active Member
But the flip side is at the D1-A level would we get many tickets to a road playoff game outside of a standard 2-3k allotment? If not even if someone doesn't go to every playoff game I'm sure we'd sell out a small road allotment like that. And for the home playoff games I'd expect most season ticket holders to make it and a big bump in sales to non season ticket holders.

My thinking is that the home team gets most of the tickets, road team gets a small allotment. Season ticket holders get first shot at tickets. Pretty much like the baseball Regionals and Super Regionals. I don't see anyone getting tired of watching their own team play in their home stadium. Sure, traveling to all of the road playoff games would get expensive, but each team would only need a small traveling group each time. I would think the bands usually wouldn't make the road trips.

I wouldn't worry about the I-AA example too much.
 

HoustonHornedFrog

Active Member
The first year or so of playoffs would no doubt make a big splash. And I suppose that if a team made the playoffs for the first time (or first time in a while), fans would be excited. But if a program is actually good enough to go to the playoffs on at least a semi-regular basis, would the bloom come off the rose?

To answer my own question, I suppose that's why most proposals have at least the early playoff games played on someone's campus.

Can't imagine the blood would come off the rose more than it would for a team going to Vegas or Shreveport for a bowl every year.

But the flip side is at the D1-A level would we get many tickets to a road playoff game outside of a standard 2-3k allotment? If not even if someone doesn't go to every playoff game I'm sure we'd sell out a small road allotment like that. And for the home playoff games I'd expect most season ticket holders to make it and a big bump in sales to non season ticket holders.

I would expect that the visitor allotment would be about what it is during the regular season, which is fitting since the point of giving the higher ranked team a home game is to give them the home field advantage.

As far as the attendance at FCS playoff games, for the 2009 season, the average for all FCS home games was 8,025. Attendance for the 15 playoff games averaged 10,262 with attendance at the championship game being 14,328. To put that in perspective, the top drawing FCS team in 2009 was Montana which averaged 24,417 at home. Penn was no. 30 in FCS home attendance at 10,600. So the playoffs averaged 27.8% higher than the overall home attendance for the FCS and the championship game attendance was 44% higher than the overall average. The playoffs averaged about Penn did which was 30th in attendance.

FBS average home attendance was 45,545 in 2009. Bowl game average attendance was 52,055. There is no NCAA championship game so the NCAA site doesn't break out attendance for the BCS-NC game. The top FBS team in home attendance was Michigan 108,933 and no. 30 on the home attendance list was Cal at 59,472. Bowl game attendance was 14.3% higher than overall average attendance. No. 30 in attendance in the FBS averaged 14.2% more than than the bowl games.

Since the FCS doesn't have bowl games and the FBS doesn't have a playoff, I don't know that you can draw any conclusions from the FCS attendance numbers for the playoffs, in some respects it comes down to the schools that are playing. Michigan averaged over 108,000 for a team that went 5-7 in 2009. Clearly if they were playing a playoff game at UM it would put over 100,000 in the stands. By contrast (not that I think Eastern Michigan would ever be hosting a playoff game) but they averaged 5,016 in home attendance in 2009. Having that kind of disparity is hard to reconcile.
 

Spike

Full Member
There are almost always a whole lot of empty seats at these quarterfinal and semifinal games, even though the stadiums are small compared to just about every D1-A stadium.

Lots and lots of empty seats, even though the games are being played (as far as I can tell) in the home stadiums of the higher ranked teams.

Is this an inconvenient detail for the people that think that D1-A playoffs would generate huge crowds and mega payouts? Or simply lower-division programs being unable to sell tickets to post-season games while D1-A schools could?

Have you been watching for several weeks now? I'm wondering how many of those schools have broken for the semester and if so is that a factor.

At the D-1 level I would want the playoffs to be somewhat regional in nature, and use the nearby bowls for the intermediate rounds. Granted not everyone has access to as many close bowls as Texas but overall it might keep things interesting.

Also, if I were king I would eliminate all games vs 1AA teams and try to shorten the regular season a bit.
 
My thinking is that the home team gets most of the tickets, road team gets a small allotment. Season ticket holders get first shot at tickets. Pretty much like the baseball Regionals and Super Regionals. I don't see anyone getting tired of watching their own team play in their home stadium. Sure, traveling to all of the road playoff games would get expensive, but each team would only need a small traveling group each time. I would think the bands usually wouldn't make the road trips.

I wouldn't worry about the I-AA example too much.
I would think that the bands would virtually always go to playoff road games. The extra money generated by a play-off would pay for it.
 
If you really wanted to see empty seats you could have seen thousands at the Superdome during the Troy vs. Ohio New Orleans bowl yesterday. There had to have been less than 20,000 at that game.
 

neo926

Active Member
If you really wanted to see empty seats you could have seen thousands at the Superdome during the Troy vs. Ohio New Orleans bowl yesterday. There had to have been less than 20,000 at that game.
20,000 is being kind, it seemed like there was 5,000-10,000 there at best.
 

okra tex

Active Member
In the D2 championship game Saturday, the combined enrollment for both schools was about 15,000 (UMD @11,000 and DSU @ 4,000). For DSU the drive was less than 8 hours from Cleveland MS to the game site - but those poor Duluth MN fans had about 800 - 1,000 miles I think.

D1 has much more interest than the lower divisions, and I would be surprised in a playoff scenario if each game was not mostly sold out.
 

Cougar/Frog

Active Member
20,000 is being kind, it seemed like there was 5,000-10,000 there at best.

And yet even that garbage bowl makes money, while I doubt Ohio even got close to breaking even (Troy might have, given they have a little bit more of a fan base).

Ohio and Troy don't even average 20k a game at home so really aren't true FBS schools. No one expected Ohio to travel very well (but Ohio was likely more willing to pay for tickets than Temple --- which got left out entirely).

Most bowls are rip-offs for teams and fans and reward just the organizers and certain school officials.
 
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