CBS Sports: 2014 NFL Draft - TCU Preview

[neutral observer]

I would hate to lose Hunter, Carter, Fields, and some other underclassmen to the draft so early!  Think of what we could have accomplished with Boyce and Maponga had stayed.

 

[pgdaly84]

I would hate to lose Hunter, Carter, Fields, and some other underclassmen to the draft so early!  Think of what we could have accomplished with Boyce and Maponga had stayed.

Fields will be around for at least one more season after this one. He needs to keep improving and stop doing whatever it is that got him suspended. If he stays on course then he'll be gone after his junior year. Sam and Brandon Carter, and Chucky Hunter could all be gone after this season, but I only see Brandon Carter as a realistic early departure. He will be Pachall's go to WR this year, and this will be his best chance at a big year.

Even if they do all leave early it's not the end of the world. Just means we're producing the type of player that can leave early for the NFL. That'll help recruit more of those players.

 

[Shut Down Frogs]

I'm just continually amazed at how far Verrett has come. I guess that's mixed with how blindly enraged I was during his first game vs Baylor. I hope he has a great year and gets paid. Kudos to him sticking around for this year when he could have come out and probably been drafted.
 
I think it's possible we get 2014 out of Hunter unless he just destroys everyone this year. Guy is clearly talented and coachable. Remind anyone of Tommie Harris?
 
I don't really think Brandon Carter is that great of an NFL prospect. I guess to refine that, I don't think he should hold his breath on being drafted real high. He has all the signs of someone who could be successful at the next level IF everything clicks for him and he "gets it". You're basically hoping he can be Danny Amendola but healthy. 
 
Ahh, Casey Pachall. I'm of the opinion that our 2013 success is HUGELY dependent upon Pachall and that this team will basically be powered by him this year. The same is true of his NFL window. If he comes out having regressed very little and then puts it in gear and gets better throughout the year, he could be as high as a late 2nd round pick. Any conversation about him assumes he is 100% clean off the field though. I don't think he could afford a jaywalking ticket at this point. 
 
I don't know what to make of Waymon James' chances. I think it's going to be hard to be drafted high as a RB from TCU right now because of how splintered those touches are going to be. If he is healthy all year and has a good season, I can see him getting drafted end of the 3rd best case scenario. 

 

[Froglaw]

And NFL teams care so much about character.

My thought too.
 
Darth Jerry could not care less about any other human being on the planet.
 
If the Devil made a deal for his grandchildren's souls in exchange for another Super Bowl, anyone doubt what decision he'd make?
 
Hate to say it, but it looks like the New England ownership groupd is the only one that really cares about what its players do off the field.
 
Cowboys have come a long way (the wrong direction)  from Staubach, Landry, Lilly, Gil Brandt, Tex, et al.

 

[Ron Swanson]

And NFL teams care so much about character.

 
They do when they think it will effect their play on the field or the locker room morale.  Players could be serial killers and GMs wouldn't care if they didn't think it would have an effect on winning and losing.
 
Basically, they want to be able to depend on the player.
 
Character and dependability are often closely intertwined.
 

 
Seems they're selective with it. 
 
Look at Jimmy Smith, Jayron Hosley, etc.
 
It's not like Cam Newton didn't have baggage from college.

 
Cam Newton took money.  Teams don't care at all if kids took money.  That's an NCAA rule, and that has nothing to do with the real world, really.

 

[Shut Down Frogs]

Character concerns definitely affect draft status. If you can play, you'll get a shot in the league regardless of your criminal record (within reason) but it will cause you to fall. Not as drastic now since the the CBA got redone, but it does matter. First and most second round guys very very rarely have serious legal downside potential. 
 
Tyrann Mathieu is a prime example. He won the Bednarik award and was 5th in Heisman voting. He was like the 12th CB off the board. IIRC, he wasn't even arrested until after being dismissed from the team and even that was for marijuana possession which is probably not even as serious of a violation in the eyes of NFL talent/risk evaluators as DWI.
 
That said, I think Pachall can get a pass on his character concerns if he's flawless from here on out. They'll spin it as making some mistakes and then being coachable/"past all that" if he shows dedication and improvement. 
 
And, yes, LOL Jerrah.

 

[Shut Down Frogs]

 
They do when they think it will effect their play on the field or the locker room morale.  Players could be serial killers and GMs wouldn't care if they didn't think it would have an effect on winning and losing.
 
Basically, they want to be able to depend on the player.
 
Character and dependability are often closely intertwined.
 
 
Cam Newton took money.  Teams don't care at all if kids took money.  That's an NCAA rule, and that has nothing to do with the real world, really.

 
Yep.
 
Cam showed a lack of respect for authority for taking the money (was that even ever confirmed?) but yeah, the NFL isn't going to care much about that. The NCAA's a joke organization anyway. I can easily see Gooddell opening every meeting with a joke about NCAA policy/enforcement/business. Assuming Gooddell is capable of joking, of course.

 

[MAcFroggy]

 
They do when they think it will effect their play on the field or the locker room morale.  Players could be serial killers and GMs wouldn't care if they didn't think it would have an effect on winning and losing.
 
Basically, they want to be able to depend on the player.
 
Character and dependability are often closely intertwined.
 
 
Cam Newton took money.  Teams don't care at all if kids took money.  That's an NCAA rule, and that has nothing to do with the real world, really.

 
 
Didn't Cam Newton get kicked out of Florida for theft?  More than just taking money.

 

[Shut Down Frogs]

 
 
Didn't Cam Newton get kicked out of Florida for theft?  More than just taking money.

 
He did get arrested for stealing a laptop or something but the charges were dropped. There was also some allegation of cheating IIRC. He transferred out of UF (not kicked out). 

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

 
He did get arrested for stealing a laptop or something but the charges were dropped. There was also some allegation of cheating IIRC. He transferred out of UF (not kicked out). 

 
Techinically, yes. He actually left before even meeting with the student conduct panel that was hearing his case and would have been responsible for his punishment (likely suspension, could've been expulsion)

 

[jake102]

Yeah Cam Newton got busted for a few thefts of laptops and was about to get busted for cheating. 
 
He's about as dirty as it comes.... his behavior screams immaturity just as much as a DWI.

 

[Get Your Frogs Up]

Yeah Cam Newton got busted for a few thefts of laptops and was about to get busted for cheating. 
 
He's about as dirty as it comes.... his behavior screams immaturity just as much as a DWI.

 
I don't know the specific facts of each case well enough to really make a true comparison, but it's interesting how the world works.  Cam Newton steals a few laptop computers and gets busted, gets relegated to a JUCO for a year and then goes on to win a national championship and make millions of dollars in the pros.  David Jenkins steals a few laptop computers and gets busted, and he's staring down a felony conviction and some prison time.  Life.

 

[FBallFan123]

 
They do when they think it will effect their play on the field or the locker room morale.  Players could be serial killers and GMs wouldn't care if they didn't think it would have an effect on winning and losing.
 
Basically, they want to be able to depend on the player.
 
Character and dependability are often closely intertwined.
 
 
Cam Newton took money.  Teams don't care at all if kids took money.  That's an NCAA rule, and that has nothing to do with the real world, really.

 
I was more talking about the Florida stuff...stolen laptop, and then the rumors of academic cheating, etc.
 
Edit: I see Jake102 mentioned them.

 

[Shut Down Frogs]

Interestingly, Ross Tucker hosted Andrew Brandt on his podcast Friday (I just listened to it) and he point blank asked him about character concerns as it pertains to signings and contracts. Obviously a little different from draft day decisions, but still relevant. Brandt said it's a case by case analysis but that the talent vs character argument is always going to swing toward talent if the talent is great enough. He went on to say that it's a different conversation when investing big money (talking about 2nd contracts and extensions) and that he considered character a lot more important when locking a guy in.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah I mean it's a risk/reward, pro/con type of situation.  They're willing to look past a lot of stuff and roll the dice on a questionable character guy if he is 6'6" 250, runs like a deer, and has a gun for an arm.  Obviously, the Panthers thought the type of stuff that Cam Newton was in trouble for wasn't the type of stuff that they felt would effect his ability to lead a team and be reliable.  Or maybe they thought it would be the type of stuff that would effect him, but since he was such an athletic freak, the upside was worth the risk.
 
My point was that yes, most owners and GMs care about character concerns, but it's not not because they don't want low character guys on their team for any sort of ethical/moral reasons.  It's because they want to be able to depend on their players.  A ton of guys drop multiple rounds in the draft because they have character concerns.

 

[Hunt Together]

It's not that difficult to see the differences between CP and Newton, from the perspective of an NFL team. Cam had issues at Florida and Auburn for stealing laptops and taking money, respectively. After signing a multi million dollar contract, the incentive to steal and receive other illegal funds diminishes.

Casey, on the other hand, has battled substance abuse issues. No one can project how he will handle those issues in the NFL. Maybe the financial security lessens his dependency. But maybe it increases access and he can't handle the pressure of being a starting NFL QB.

From the NFL's perspective, petty theft and substance abuse issues are two very different issues.

 

[Shut Down Frogs]

Yeah I mean it's a risk/reward, pro/con type of situation... since he was such an athletic freak, the upside was worth the risk.
 
My point was that yes, most owners and GMs care about character concerns, but it's not not because they don't want low character guys on their team for any sort of ethical/moral reasons.  It's because they want to be able to depend on their players.  A ton of guys drop multiple rounds in the draft because they have character concerns.

 
Yep, all of this. 
 
If you know a guy has x % of chance to commit some sort of major crime BUT he gives you a window to win a Super Bowl in just a few years, you have to decide if it's worth the risk.
 
Brandt went on to talk about how spending a 4th round pick on a guy like Hernandez was pretty close to a no brainer with the risk vs reward. He did go on to eviscerate them for signing him to that $40MM extension when there was still time left on his original contract. He basically said that having been around the guy for 2 years, you should have known more about his potential to be a major screw-up (vs LOL Peter King who thinks drafting him was some heinous crime) and that there was no reason to sink more money into him at the time. I agree completely with Brandt on this. 
 
Getting way off topic here, but with all of the back tracking the team and league are doing to remove AH from memory, it would have been REALLY interesting to see how they would be treating all of this if the Patriots would have won XLVI when he had a ton of catches, a TD and basically made life miserable for the Giants.

 

[Shut Down Frogs]

Not sure how to do the formatting on Twitter stuff on KF, but...

 

 
TCU football places 4 on the official preseason All-Big 12 team: DE Devonte Fields, PK Jaden Oberkrom, QB Casey Pachall & CB Jason Verrett.
 
 

 
https://twitter.com/tcusid/status/357516252337545216
 
Don't know where else to put this. LOL QB controversy.