Big East do not let ESPN stick it to you, Big 10 didn't.

[Despite the odds Frog]

ESPN's 'lowball' offer triggered Big Ten expansion
By Teddy Greenstein, Chicago Tribune reporter

July 1, 2011

The conventional Big Ten expansion timeline begins Dec. 15, 2009, when the conference released a statement calling for a "thorough evaluation of options."....

The date: April 30, 2004. That's when a posse of ESPN executives, led by Mark Shapiro, John Wildhack, Loren Matthews and Chuck Gerber, met with conference honchos at Big Ten headquarters in Park Ridge....

An amiable session in which the Big Ten and ESPN cleaned up "housekeeping matters" — schedules and announcers — took a nasty turn at the one-hour mark. That's when talk turned to a contract extension, a negotiating session that went nowhere. Fast.

"The shortest one I ever had," Delany told the Tribune. "He lowballed us and said: 'Take it or leave it. If you don't take our offer, you are rolling the dice.' I said: 'Consider them rolled.' "

Delany had warned ESPN officials that without a significant rights-fee increase, he would try to launch a new channel that would pose competition both for TV viewers and the Big Ten's inventory of games: the Big Ten Network....

 

[Texas Otto]

This is why Marinetto quickly refused the precedent was alreasy set. ESPN aka The Evil Empire thought they could pounce and get the BE to re-up for a mere $11M per team per year coming off the most mediocre season in conference history. What Dr. Evil at ESPN headquarters did not count on was that the BE Presidents and Marinetto actually know TCU brings major tv value, and the conference is on the verge of having the best run in years from traditional BE schools (except for Rutgirls) in some time. ESPN you've been beaten at your own game!

:tongue:

 

[Scarface]

This is why Marinetto quickly refused the precedent was alreasy set. ESPN aka The Evil Empire thought they could pounce and get the BE to re-up for a mere $11M per team per year coming off the most mediocre season in conference history. What Dr. Evil at ESPN headquarters did not count on was that the BE Presidents and Marinetto actually know TCU brings major tv value, and the conference is on the verge of having the best run in years from traditional BE schools (except for Rutgirls) in some time. ESPN you've been beaten at your own game!

:tongue:

I don't consider the $11M per team per year a low ball offer. I would call it a first offer. ESPN seemed to be trying to give the BE something similar to the ACC deal and get the conference to resign early. There is nothing really wrong with that type of negotiating.

Does the Big East really want to form their own network? Does ESPN really want to lose the BE, especially the four winter months of college's most exciting Men's BB? I still feel ESPN and the Big East will hammer something out.

Nonetheless, I hope you're right about how much more the BE's tv value has increased. I agree with you about Big East football only getting better in the next couple of years.



Go Frogs!

 

[cdsfrog]

I don't consider the $11M per team per year a low ball offer. I would call it a first offer. ESPN seemed to be trying to give the BE something similar to the ACC deal and get the conference to resign early. There is nothing really wrong with that type of negotiating.

Does the Big East really want to form their own network? Does ESPN really want to lose the BE, especially the four winter months of college's most exciting Men's BB? I still feel ESPN and the Big East will hammer something out.

Nonetheless, I hope you're right about how much more the BE's tv value has increased. I agree with you about Big East football only getting better in the next couple of years.



Go Frogs!

thats a HORRENDOUS offer, not a lowball offfer. The ACC is a truely awful conference thats makes quite a bit more than that

 

[Scarface]

thats a HORRENDOUS offer, not a lowball offfer. The ACC is a truely awful conference thats makes quite a bit more than that

Not true.

This whole matter has been discussed on other threads. The ACC teams may make a little more than this first ESPN offer would give the BE football playing schools but this is in big part due to the BE having all the BB only schools requiring the BB portion to be bigger and to be split in more pieces.

The ACC hasn't been any more awful in football than the Big East.

There would be a lot of justice if TCU could get at least the same type of tv revenue that TT, Baylor and Okie State get being in the Big 12.


Go Frogs!

 

[cdsfrog]

The pac 12 just got a deal for 21 million a year with 6 awful teams in their conference.

I think we can get a deal better than half that. With TCU in the conference the Big East is easily better than the ACC, by a lot which got 13 million. Big East is looking for a deal at 14 or 15 million per team at least.

 

[mtmedlin]

A couple things... The ACC teams get $11.9 million. Take their contract and divide by 13..12 teams and the conference takes an equal share.
As far as negotiations, I thought that Marinato was leading when he declined. I have some people who cleared things up for me.
1. Marinatto was ready to add Nova and then sign off on a $1 billion 9 year deal, which would have given the BE an immediate increase but the football schools would have had less then the ACC.

2. Rutgers Pernetti and WV Luck lead the charge to not accept.

3. Marinatto could sign off if he wanted to but it was conditional on a 10 team conference.

4. Luck and Pernitti got Pitt to join them in blocking the addition of Nova, which essentially killed the TV deal.

5. ALL the BE teams new of Novas plan for stadium the entire time and had no real issue with it. The blocking of Nova had less to do with Nova as it did with stoping the signing of a contract. Just after the Pac12 signed their deal, then ALL members were on board to wait it out.

All of this is why I think there is a good chance that the BE goes along the B10 and Pac12 route and forms their own network...and I think it will be more along the line of the PAC12, who own 100% of their own network.
If you look at a market based expansion plan, which is the direction a conference would go if it was building a network, you would be looking to solidify the largest markets in order to get those markets on the basic package, which makes the most money.
Adding Nova, Army and Navy makes it so that we have a strong presence in
#1 New York, #3 Chicago, #4 Philadelphia, #5 Dallas/Ft Worth (thanks TCU) #9 Washington DC.... what other conference has representation in FIVE of the top 10 markets.
The TV contract will put us ahead of the ACC and on par with the B12....the Network will put us solidly up there with the bigger boys.

(Of Course adding Houston, convincing Gtech and maryland and Luring back BC would give us 8 of the top 10)

 

[jonatbaylor]

The pac 12 just got a deal for 21 million a year with 6 awful teams in their conference.

I think we can get a deal better than half that. With TCU in the conference the Big East is easily better than the ACC, by a lot which got 13 million. Big East is looking for a deal at 14 or 15 million per team at least.

I think people misunderstand how these dollars are determined in the first place.

The revenue comes from TV marketshare size...that is how the ad revenue is determined. It matters little if teams xyz are "6 awful teams" if they reside in some of the largest TV markets in America.

Case in Point, look at Nebraska. They have arguably one of the most storied and successful football programs in the nation..and the B12 renegotiated one deal and is negotiating another and the loss of Nebraska didn't decrease their bargaining power. Why? Because Nebraska has no TV marketshare. Sure, they may sell t-shirts in 30 states and have fans all over, but scattered fans do not influence TV market viewing. It has to be concentrated and dense.

You are drinking the koolaid if you think the Frogs were invited just because they have a good football team... TCU got the invite from the BE not only because it is a good football team, but because it would give the BE marketshare in the DFW area and the BE would be able to recruit Texas.

The added prestige and being in an AQ is great. However, I bemoan the fact that the game times are going to be drastically different now and that half of the games are going to be over on the east coast - where I cannot attend them. That and it cannot be cheap to cart an entire program half across the country 5 times a year.

Long term, I do not think the Texas/Arkansas/La/New Mexico/Kansas areas will ever be able to form a super conference, mainly due to the large land areas and the distances between populations...that would be the greatest hurdles. I think that is why half of the B12 was looking at going west to CA, because there isn't anything in between the two.

I doubt it would happen, but the only real feasible way for a Texas heavy superconference to ever be formed would be to lure Arkansas, LSU and Nebraska back into a new mega power and we... all know that isn't going to happen. And even then I don't know if that is enough because neither are sizeable TV markets. They would basically have to get those three and then maybe steal Iowa as well, maybe the AZ schools and form a 16 team league. The next 10 years will be interesting...

 

[mtmedlin]

If I were the B12 and wanted to expand, I would make offers to Georgia Tech and Florida State. Fl State draws in 80K+ fans per game, and Gtech has a monster market. Both are about the same distance from the epicenter of the conference (UT) then Iowa St. That gets them to 12 and would be an easy addition considering the ACC only makes $11.9 million a year.
To go to 14, they can ask BYU and then attempt Arkansas. If not them, then they could go after Lousiville.
To get to 16 is much harder and I dont see teams of value that are geographic fits that would make the jump....but 12 is very doable.

 

[jonatbaylor]

If I were the B12 and wanted to expand, I would make offers to Georgia Tech and Florida State. Fl State draws in 80K+ fans per game, and Gtech has a monster market. Both are about the same distance from the epicenter of the conference (UT) then Iowa St. That gets them to 12 and would be an easy addition considering the ACC only makes $11.9 million a year.
To go to 14, they can ask BYU and then attempt Arkansas. If not them, then they could go after Lousiville.
To get to 16 is much harder and I dont see teams of value that are geographic fits that would make the jump....but 12 is very doable.

Publicly they don't show any signs of wanting or needing to expand...but certainly they would be smart to keep their options open for the future and you would think they have their eyes open if a market was available that would ad a bunch of money to the mix. They are all flush in money now and having to divide that money by another 1-2 schools would mean less per school, unless that new schools had huge markets.

I see what you mean as far at GT and FSU, but I think those are so far geographically, it would be a huge reach to get them. I dunno..I suppose I was just thinking of the closest, largest football holding cities when I named all of those schools/cities.

Your BYU idea is something I chewed on a while. They could have swooped BYU and UTAH and picked up that SLC market, which is actually a very large market at #30? I think in the USA. And you know that it will only keep growing...That and I think BYU fits in better culturally with Texas, being conservation, vs. say the P12 which didn't invite the school - and they wanted an invite from both the P10 and the B12 but didn't get it. I guess the marketing guys felt Provo was not close enough or would not capture SLC? who knows.

 

[mtmedlin]

Map out the B12 and then add in Gtech and Fl St.... Both are closer to the Texas schools then Iowa St and they are very convenient to Missou. Geographically, they are a pretty good fit. BYU and Air force would also be good additions. As someone else pointed out, Air Force has a strong Texas presence and a good national audience, also they help get back the lost Colorado markets. I think they can move to 14 without much of a problem and I hope they do.
The more that the ACC gets hurt the better chance the BE is to pick up teams. If the B10 goes to 16, I can see them taking Texas AtM, Maryland, Rutgers and Notre Dame. If the B12 takes the teams I mentioned, then it leaves the ACC at 9 and the BE at 8 or 9. If the BE contract pays more, then they have a better chance of taking teams.

 

[jonatbaylor]

Map out the B12 and then add in Gtech and Fl St.... Both are closer to the Texas schools then Iowa St and they are very convenient to Missou. Geographically, they are a pretty good fit. BYU and Air force would also be good additions. As someone else pointed out, Air Force has a strong Texas presence and a good national audience, also they help get back the lost Colorado markets. I think they can move to 14 without much of a problem and I hope they do.
The more that the ACC gets hurt the better chance the BE is to pick up teams. If the B10 goes to 16, I can see them taking Texas AtM, Maryland, Rutgers and Notre Dame. If the B12 takes the teams I mentioned, then it leaves the ACC at 9 and the BE at 8 or 9. If the BE contract pays more, then they have a better chance of taking teams.

I suppose the options are varied and I think we are a ways off from another (big?) realignment for a while, as many of the big conferences have just recently done their new TV contracts so it should quiet things down for 6-8 years. Not that the last alignment was something major...

 

[mtmedlin]

I suppose the options are varied and I think we are a ways off from another (big?) realignment for a while, as many of the big conferences have just recently done their new TV contracts so it should quiet things down for 6-8 years. Not that the last alignment was something major...

The B10 and the B12 both are negotiating their first tier rights in 2015....movements will happen.

 

[WIN]

If I were the B12 and wanted to expand, I would make offers to Georgia Tech and Florida State. Fl State draws in 80K+ fans per game, and Gtech has a monster market. Both are about the same distance from the epicenter of the conference (UT) then Iowa St. That gets them to 12 and would be an easy addition considering the ACC only makes $11.9 million a year.
To go to 14, they can ask BYU and then attempt Arkansas. If not them, then they could go after Lousiville.
To get to 16 is much harder and I dont see teams of value that are geographic fits that would make the jump....but 12 is very doable.

There is that unequal disbursement thing which makes expansion even more difficult for big 12.
How would Georgia Tech & Florida fit in the food chain? Got to think those two teams would demand top pay. Someone will get pissy.

 

[Endless Purple]

The revenue comes from TV marketshare size...that is how the ad revenue is determined. It matters little if teams xyz are "6 awful teams" if they reside in some of the largest TV markets in America.

Shhh.... Don't tell that to the people against UH.

 

[Endless Purple]

My biggest fear about the new contracts is not that they will be too low right now. I am afraid they may sign some 20 years deal where from year 12-20 the BE is getting half of what the other conferences are getting because market values for football keep going up and the BE is stuck in a long term contract.

 

[boonecountyman]

My biggest fear about the new contracts is not that they will be too low right now. I am afraid they may sign some 20 years deal where from year 12-20 the BE is getting half of what the other conferences are getting because market values for football keep going up and the BE is stuck in a long term contract.

Maybe the BE should consider negotiating a contract that stipulates the BE will not fall "x"% behind the other BCS conferences.I know coaches that stipulate they will be paid within the top 10% of other coaches in their conference.This keeps them on level with their peers.I don't know if this is possible but just a thought.

 

[mtmedlin]

My biggest fear about the new contracts is not that they will be too low right now. I am afraid they may sign some 20 years deal where from year 12-20 the BE is getting half of what the other conferences are getting because market values for football keep going up and the BE is stuck in a long term contract.

I gurantee that Marinatto will go for a 10 year deal. He wants to land our agreements end date to be just afte the ACC. THe ACC is up in 2022 and we will be up in 2013, so a 10 year puts us perfectly behind them. We will always get to negotiate off of their increased package.

This is why I really hope that the BE goes after at least 2 of their teams.
Maryland has been shopping itself to the B10 but isnt a slam dunk to get in. Their best rivalry is with WV. Their strength is basketball and football is mediocre. They make the majority of their money from basktball and that would only increase in the BE.
Georgia Tech is another team that has no real rivlary in the ACC and has been rumored to want a move. Neither of these teams will look at the BE as an upgrade, but if we get a $14-$16 million TV deal and a network that pays $3-$4 million per year, then they can easily justify leaving the ACC who makes $11.9 million, to go to the BE who would be making $17-$20. (a 50% increase which is equal to at least $60 million over ten years is nothing to laugh at) The ACC is locked in for 10 years after we get our contract. Adding the Baltimore/Washington DC market, Atlanta market and upgrading Nova to get Philly, I really think that the numbers I propose are very doable. No other conference can claim to have 7 of the top 10 DMAs in America.

and even though many would hate it, I would then offer Houston and invite back Miami. That would make the BE have 10 of the top 16 DMAs....thats HUGE network money... and also makes a very nice southern division with TCU, Houston, USF, Miami, Georgia Tech, Louisville, and Cinci.

 

[mtmedlin]

There is that unequal disbursement thing which makes expansion even more difficult for big 12.
How would Georgia Tech & Florida fit in the food chain? Got to think those two teams would demand top pay. Someone will get pissy.

Actually under their new agreement, the distribution of money is closer then ever. Florida St is on TV so often that they would more then likely end up getting similar to Texas in Money. The FL St vs UF and FL St vs Miami games are two of the biggest each year. Both are always televised. Gtech would more then likely not get as much....but they would still make more then staying in the ACC.

Gtech is one team that I dont think will be in the ACC after 2015. Their going to be looked at hard by not only the B12 but also the B10. That market is WAY too large for both to not look at. If teh B10 does go for Texas AtM (which they should) then Missou and Gtech become in play.

 

[jonatbaylor]

There is that unequal disbursement thing which makes expansion even more difficult for big 12.
How would Georgia Tech & Florida fit in the food chain? Got to think those two teams would demand top pay. Someone will get pissy.

It is definitely unequal, but they did adjust the revenue model. All 10 teams will share 76% of the revenue, then the remaining 24% gets shared unequally based on TV appearances etc..

It used to be 56-57%. The latest revenue numbers were 07/08 and OU made 4 million more than the lowest team, KSU. With all of the new money coming into the league, that gap was going to get huge unless they bumped up the total share revenue %, which again they did. There will still be a gap, obviously and with UT having its own network they could be 10-15 mill ahead of anyone else.

Ubben on the B12 blog went into more detail here:

http://espn.go.com/b...w-cash-equality

http://espn.go.com/b...-evens-up-a-bit