247 Sports: Patterson West Virginia post-game presser

[netty2424]

It does not matter how highly-recruited your skill players are if you are weak in the lines. Yes, our coaching staff is underperforming, but it is difficult to win games when you cannot rush the QB or protect yours.

TCU has the UT disease now: we have these flashy “super talented” skill players but get dominated in the line of scrimmage almost every game. That is why there is no consistency on our team.

Except UT is able to consistently land the high star blue chip recruits in the trenches. Must be maddening to be an Orange fan.

 

[2themax]

storment, lanz, avila, and coker had started the last 4 games for the frogs in the offensive line and one would think at this point and time the staff would know what that group is capable of executing and where they struggle.

the frogs are starting a true freshman and red-shirt freshman receiver as well as a junior in barber who has played a great deal and an experienced junior in wells

the age of the running back group doesn't really matter as barlow, evans, and miller have shown the ability to produce when given the opportunity

max as far as we know is the only quarterback who has been effective in this offensive scheme and yet the offensive staff continually has exposed him in the run game and not asked the backs to carry the load

my issue with the offensive staff (sonny and doug) is we have no real offensive identity, the entire thing seems to be centered around max instead of the quarterback position because we have only seen a walk on transfer play aside from max and he struggled to find consistency

so what does the offensive staff do? they force the passing game despite the fact max is hurt according to some, the offensive line is struggling in pass protection, and the youth at receiver.

the frogs have had success in the downhill run game, but do we see and expansion of that as they have talent at running back and the line has shown some effectiveness in the run game

so going away from your areas of success and forcing areas that you really aren't equipped to execute has nothing to do with the covid, injuires, or experience but falls on an offensive staff (sonny and doug)

defensively, mathis is in his third year in the program and only programs somehow find ways for players to be consistently productive in that time frame. coleman is young and if the problem of getting caught inside allowing the runner to bounce outside only happened with him and only this year that would be a different matter, but break downs in run fits have been a problem for the past 3 years

same with coverages on the wheel route and crossing routes. if an inexperienced corner gets beat deep that is one thing, but when we continually see break downs in coverages on certain types of routes again and again and again that isn't a matter of issues just for this game

the defensive issues aren't going to change until gary retires because i don't see him changing his defensive staff, but supposedly he gives the offensive staff freedom to do what they believe is best and there is just no way he can look at the offense each week and believe this offense will do what is needed for the frogs to do more than tread water

I'll respectfully disagree about age and experience.
When you play so many young guys it does make a very noticeable impact.
Regardless of position the physical development of an 17-18 yr old vs a 20-22 yr old with college level training is undeniable.
WVU OU KSU ISU all visibly shoved TCU around the entire game.
Not to mention the level of execution on both sides of the ball.
Missed blocks, holding penalties, and blown coverages in the secondary are the norm this year.
Too much was expected of this squad this season.
Young oline, qb, wrs, and rbs are not a right now offense.
Too many "projects" at the outside wr spots last couple of seasons.
2 key positions in any def scheme are de's and cb's.
All 4 starters at those spots are still learning.
A true heavy dt in the middle is key too.
Not there presently.
Opponent's interior oline is consistently reaching the 2nd level.
All those losses were to better teams.

 

[Eight]

I'll respectfully disagree about age and experience.
When you play so many young guys it does make a very noticeable impact.
Regardless of position the physical development of an 17-18 yr old vs a 20-22 yr old with college level training is undeniable.
WVU OU KSU ISU all visibly shoved TCU around the entire game.
Not to mention the level of execution on both sides of the ball.
Missed blocks, holding penalties, and blown coverages in the secondary are the norm this year.
Too much was expected of this squad this season.
Young oline, qb, wrs, and rbs are not a right now offense.
Too many "projects" at the outside wr spots last couple of seasons.
2 key positions in any def scheme are de's and cb's.
All 4 starters at those spots are still learning.
A true heavy dt in the middle is key too.
Not there presently.
Opponent's interior oline is consistently reaching the 2nd level.
All those losses were to better teams.

feel free to disagree with me as this board gets far too boring when everyone agrees and i don't think you will find many who would disagree that 4-5 years in a training program should make an impact on a players physical stature and abilities

few points starting with wvu, ou, ksu, and ou all pushing tcu around for the games. if you look at the the offensive and defensive lines for each of those opponents and tcu's starting lines in those games what you will find is only ou had an experience advantage in the offensive line. heck the kstate defensive line that shut down tcu had three players who had never started a game at the p5 level prior to this year. wvu started a red-shirt freshman and a true freshman in their offensive lines and yet the frogs were not able to get pressure

i would be happy to post the comparisons if you are interested, but a bigger part is physical talent, coaching, scheme and attitude. those four offensives you mention have a down hill physical run style and play physical up front on the defensive side of the ball

in 2016, 2018, 2019, and 2020 from the frog's offense we have seen a much more finesse oriented run game and the frogs have gone smaller at linebacker and struggled to find two productive defensive ends who both weigh over 240 lbs.

we did see signs of the frogs having some physical components in their run game in 2017, but that hasn't been seen since dykes left town and the bigger impact against the run game was having lj collier at defensive end paired with ben and not a group of undersized ends

in regards to the receivers, there are some self inflicted wounds as they have lost 4 older, bigger, more physical receivers who left the program this year and the staff is now not only left with one truly experienced receiver in barber, but only one receiver who regularly plays is taller than 6' and weighs more that 185 lbs which is a very concerning trend.

finally, the frogs have had a number of young offensive and defensive linemen who have made big contributions to the program since they have joined the big 12 in 2012.

on the offensive side:

2012 collins, hunt, and big v
2014 noteboom, schlottman, and pryor
2016 niang

on the defensive side:

2012 fields, pierson, and hunter
2013 keystone mike tuaua
2014 carraway and bradley
2017 banogu, cooper, bethley, and blacklock

7 offensive linemen and and 10 defensive linemen have made an impact in either their first or second year in college football at the p5 level because they had the talent and given a chance

the idea we need to wait 3 or 4 years for a lineman to be productive not only goes against what we are seeing in college football today, but what we have seen in this program before and time doesn't guarantee players develop

mathis is in his third year in the program, still hasn't cracked 240 lbs and still hasn't put an entire game together. if the frogs are still having issues at defensive end we need to address the issue of why they can't get talent in the program and develop it.

additionally, i can't believe garrett hayes can't at least give them what they are getting at guard right now and sometimes game reps are more important than an extra year

 

[Wexahu]

additionally, i can't believe garrett hayes can't at least give them what they are getting at guard right now and sometimes game reps are more important than an extra year

Wow, talk about a forgotten name. Is he hurt? Based on the recruiting hype, I thought he might be a day 1 starter. Literally haven't heard one word about him all year.

 

[BrewingFrog]

We haven't had that "tree stump" guy to anchor the d-line for quite a while.

GMFP seems to like speed over size. That's fine, up to a point. When you have guys getting shoved around, as 2themax notes, you have a problem.

 

[Eight]

We haven't had that "tree stump" guy to anchor the d-line for quite a while.

GMFP seems to like speed over size. That's fine, up to a point. When you have guys getting shoved around, as 2themax notes, you have a problem.

consider the 2018 defense where the frogs lost blacklock to the achilles injury. they were far from big at defensive tackle with bethley, broadnax, and cooper inside, but they were very good at defensive end with ben and lj.

additionally, lj gave them size they hadn't had in multiple years at defensive end as well as ty at linebacker. they gave up 3.6 ypc in the run game and cory, lj, and ben combined for 39 tfl's

both chucky and davion were around 300 lbs. ross only played one year over 300, and the frogs just haven't been been nearly as big as some other schools inside, but when they have been their best defensively they put out at least two quality defensive ends and in 2014 they had a rotation of mcfarland, lathan, tuaua, and carraway

they are no where near that level of talent at defensive end right now and being honest 2019 and 2020 have been the least productive years for the frogs at defensive end since joining the big 12

 

[Froggish]

Every game we’ve won this year was won because our DL consistently beat the opponents OL..Consequently every game we lost was because our DL got its ass whipped.

Outside of QB, there is nothing more important in all of football than what happens at the LOS.

 

[Eight]

Every game we’ve won this year was won because our DL consistently beat the opponents OL..Consequently every game we lost was because our DL got its ass whipped.

Outside of QB, there is nothing more important in all of football than what happens at the LOS.

agreed and not sure what has happened, but we are not the same in key points on the defensive front and the offensive line.

one could take the position the past two season we have been the weakest along the offensive and defensive fronts since we joined the big 12 due to the holes at those key positions

 

[Froggish]

agreed and not sure what has happened, but we are not the same in key points on the defensive front and the offensive line.

one could take the position the past two season we have been the weakest along the offensive and defensive fronts since we joined the big 12 due to the holes at those key positions

I don’t think there’s any question. We have holes for days up front and this is year 2 of this nonsense. Last year we started 4 Srs across the front and it was an absolute disaster. IMO the problem is a combination of 3 things.

1. Not having a dedicated experienced OL coach. GPs been on record as saying good football coaches can coach any position. Nope..not OL.

2. Up until 2-3 seasons ago, we were under recruiting the position. Not bringing in enough bodies then having to reach on talent to fill holes. That compromise is killing us.

3. Having no Off Scheme identity. It’s really hard to get good at something if you never settle on a scheme.

 

[Pure Purple]

It would seem that an astute head coach should be able to evaluate the

proficiency of his team's position coaches with the same skill that he uses

in evaluating the potential of a recruit.

 

[Eight]

It would seem that an astute head coach should be able to evaluate the

proficiency of his team's position coaches with the same skill that he uses

in evaluating the potential of a recruit.

based upon the last few seasons that is a really scary thought