I concur with the thoughts.

[jack the frog]

Smart rulebook use today.

 

[Zebra Frog]

I don't know why I'm going to do this, but I feel I would like to weigh-in on basketball officiating. I will admit that I worked many more years of football than I did basketball.

What I found during my basketball officiating period (over 10 years) was that the difference in football and basketball was the following:
In football I had time and could anticipate a call. For example, it was fairly easy to look at a player get lined up to commit a holding foul, a block in the back, a pass interference, both offensive or defensive, and even a player that was lined up wrong in a formation.
However, in basketball, this was not as evident for basketball. Almost every call had to be a reaction to what just occurred, and it normally happened so fast, I had to make the call quickly.

To summarize, I am seeing way too many basketball officials making calls that they have anticipated was going to happen. This leads to numerous wrong calls, but once the whistle blows, it's hard to eat it, so they go ahead and make a call they "thought" was going to be a foul as opposed to what actually transpired. This has made watching a game being played by very athletic individuals get called for fouls that aren't actually fouls. Some games become a travesty to the players as they are being penalized by an official that anticipated that a foul was going to be made and if the official had waited and reacted to the play, probably wouldn't have made a call.

A pet peeve of mine is a play where the defender is in good position, the offensive player is driving to the basket, jumps INTO the defender, and the defender gets called for a shooting foul. That is NOT a foul on the defender. It shouldn't be called, but the official anticipated there was going to be a foul.

Great basketball officials react, they don't anticipate. End of today's rant.

 

[Boomhauer]

Thanks Zebra, good stuff. There was an instance on Saturday where I think it was Tennyson who was standing straight up with arms up straight and they called a shooting foul on him and I believe it was his 4th and we had to sit him for a while. Frustrating, but wondered if they were “anticipating” the call there

 

[satis1103]

Thanks Zebra, good stuff. There was an instance on Saturday where I think it was Tennyson who was standing straight up with arms up straight and they called a shooting foul on him and I believe it was his 4th and we had to sit him for a while. Frustrating, but wondered if they were “anticipating” the call there

I wish they'd have anticipated the one where Jameer got shoved to the ground on a drive.

But also rebounding etc I know.

 

[JogginFrog]

I'm honestly amazed at the frequency that refs get high-speed contact plays correct in basketball. When they run plays (calls and non-calls) back in slow motion, my reaction is usually, "How did the ref, running end to end with elite players, see that moment accurately?"

 

[Horned Toad]

I don't know why I'm going to do this, but I feel I would like to weigh-in on basketball officiating. I will admit that I worked many more years of football than I did basketball.

What I found during my basketball officiating period (over 10 years) was that the difference in football and basketball was the following:
In football I had time and could anticipate a call. For example, it was fairly easy to look at a player get lined up to commit a holding foul, a block in the back, a pass interference, both offensive or defensive, and even a player that was lined up wrong in a formation.
However, in basketball, this was not as evident for basketball. Almost every call had to be a reaction to what just occurred, and it normally happened so fast, I had to make the call quickly.

To summarize, I am seeing way too many basketball officials making calls that they have anticipated was going to happen. This leads to numerous wrong calls, but once the whistle blows, it's hard to eat it, so they go ahead and make a call they "thought" was going to be a foul as opposed to what actually transpired. This has made watching a game being played by very athletic individuals get called for fouls that aren't actually fouls. Some games become a travesty to the players as they are being penalized by an official that anticipated that a foul was going to be made and if the official had waited and reacted to the play, probably wouldn't have made a call.

A pet peeve of mine is a play where the defender is in good position, the offensive player is driving to the basket, jumps INTO the defender, and the defender gets called for a shooting foul. That is NOT a foul on the defender. It shouldn't be called, but the official anticipated there was going to be a foul.

Great basketball officials react, they don't anticipate. End of today's rant.

Eureka, I think you‘ve nailed it Zebra about basketball. So many times I see no foul in the replay but the official won’t eat his whistle and many times can’t or won’t correct the call. You’ve put to words what I’ve always felt was happening in some case but couldn’t describe.

 

[East Coast]

Eureka, I think you‘ve nailed it Zebra about basketball. So many times I see no foul in the replay but the official won’t eat his whistle and many times can’t or won’t correct the call. You’ve put to words what I’ve always felt was happening in some case but couldn’t describe.

Other than out of bounds calls, you rarely see officials in basketball confer to get the call right. There were at least 3 phantom fouls called on TCU, and 2 on Texas.

Another two that bother me. First, when a player fouls another, causing the ball to go out of bounds, and official who instead of calling the foul, gives the ball back to the team that got fouled. Second, when an official waits until he sees if the basket is made, and only calls the foul if it isn't.

 

[Wexahu]

I don't know why I'm going to do this, but I feel I would like to weigh-in on basketball officiating. I will admit that I worked many more years of football than I did basketball.

What I found during my basketball officiating period (over 10 years) was that the difference in football and basketball was the following:
In football I had time and could anticipate a call. For example, it was fairly easy to look at a player get lined up to commit a holding foul, a block in the back, a pass interference, both offensive or defensive, and even a player that was lined up wrong in a formation.
However, in basketball, this was not as evident for basketball. Almost every call had to be a reaction to what just occurred, and it normally happened so fast, I had to make the call quickly.

To summarize, I am seeing way too many basketball officials making calls that they have anticipated was going to happen. This leads to numerous wrong calls, but once the whistle blows, it's hard to eat it, so they go ahead and make a call they "thought" was going to be a foul as opposed to what actually transpired. This has made watching a game being played by very athletic individuals get called for fouls that aren't actually fouls. Some games become a travesty to the players as they are being penalized by an official that anticipated that a foul was going to be made and if the official had waited and reacted to the play, probably wouldn't have made a call.

A pet peeve of mine is a play where the defender is in good position, the offensive player is driving to the basket, jumps INTO the defender, and the defender gets called for a shooting foul. That is NOT a foul on the defender. It shouldn't be called, but the official anticipated there was going to be a foul.

Great basketball officials react, they don't anticipate. End of today's rant.

I think officiating is less consistent (ok, I'll just say worse) in college basketball than in any other high level team sport. And I think it's almost an epidemic that home teams get the majority of borderline calls, especially at the end of games, but you almost never see a home team get in early foul trouble like you often see with road teams. Maybe it's the anticipation thing you talk about combined with refs just subconsciously not wanting to hear boos rained down, I don't know, but no sport has a greater home/away discrepancy than college hoops and the officiating almost has to be the main reason why.

I also agree very much with your point about offensive player looking for contact, and initiating contact, and the foul goes on the defender. WAY too many of those fouls called. And if you notice at the end of a close game, if the offensive player for the home team just puts his head down, drives through traffic and puts up some crazy out of control shot, they'll almost always call a foul on the defense no matter what. Road team guy does it, they'll often let it go. Drives me nuts sometimes.

 

[06DallasFrog]

Other than out of bounds calls, you rarely see officials in basketball confer to get the call right. There were at least 3 phantom fouls called on TCU, and 2 on Texas.

Another two that bother me. First, when a player fouls another, causing the ball to go out of bounds, and official who instead of calling the foul, gives the ball back to the team that got fouled. Second, when an official waits until he sees if the basket is made, and only calls the foul if it isn't.

This infuriates me all the way back to pick-up games in college. Either you got fouled, or you were the last to touch it, or both. But, that ball didn't go out of bounds based on my contact.

 

[06DallasFrog]

I think officiating is less consistent (ok, I'll just say worse) in college basketball than in any other high level team sport. And I think it's almost an epidemic that home teams get the majority of borderline calls, especially at the end of games, but you almost never see a home team get in early foul trouble like you often see with road teams. Maybe it's the anticipation thing you talk about combined with refs just subconsciously not wanting to hear boos rained down, I don't know, but no sport has a greater home/away discrepancy than college hoops and the officiating almost has to be the main reason why.

I also agree very much with your point about offensive player looking for contact, and initiating contact, and the foul goes on the defender. WAY too many of those fouls called. And if you notice at the end of a close game, if the offensive player for the home team just puts his head down, drives through traffic and puts up some crazy out of control shot, they'll almost always call a foul on the defense no matter what. Road team guy does it, they'll often let it go. Drives me nuts sometimes.

Isn't this why coaches emphasize aggressiveness? Force the ref to make a call. It doesn't make it right, but we can use it to our advantage too... in theory...

 

[Spike]

I have always marveled at the athleticism of refs. They don't get to rest on the bench for half the game. Check this guy out:

reminds me of @arlingtonbell

 

[froginmn]

This infuriates me all the way back to pick-up games in college. Either you got fouled, or you were the last to touch it, or both. But, that ball didn't go out of bounds based on my contact.

I always thought that was an unwritten (or maybe written) rule so that you don't get an exorbitant number of fouls and number of "flops" (dropping the ball out of bounds to draw a foul).

Certainly may be wrong.

Edit: it's actually codified in the NBA rulebook.

If a player has his hand in contact with the ball and an opponent hits that part of the hand causing the ball to go out-of-bounds, the team whose player had his hand on the ball will retain possession.

 

[PurplFrawg]

I have always marveled at the athleticism of refs. They don't get to rest on the bench for half the game. Check this guy out:

Not a lot of people know it, but @steelfrog was once a football official. This rare footage shows him in action.

 

[06DallasFrog]

I always thought that was an unwritten (or maybe written) rule so that you don't get an exorbitant number of fouls and number of "flops" (dropping the ball out of bounds to draw a foul).

Certainly may be wrong.

Edit: it's actually codified in the NBA rulebook.

Never knew this. Still think there are a lot of clean swipes that hit the ball downward and off of the player who had the ball, which are then still called out on the player who hit the ball out of his hands.

 

[The TCU Football Jerk]

I can't really agree with the "participation" trophy statement. They can be a horrible official to a lot of people, but at least they are on the field trying to help the kids in some way, even though they may be doing a bad job. It may be just to try and give something back to a game they love, but at least they got off their butt and tried. To me, that's better than not doing anything at all.

I don't like seeing bad calls either. Sometimes I get really pissed off when I think they kick a call, but I'm sympathetic to all officials that have put in the time, work, sacrifices, and effort to be where they are.

You say help the kids. I disagree. Often more harm than good is done by some of the horrific out there.

 

[The TCU Football Jerk]

@Zebra Frog How in heck are we to believe that a booster willing to pay an eighteen year old 10s of thousands of dollars, wouldn't see fit to pay off a referee? And, how are we to believe a ref wouldn't take the bribe time and time again?