2024 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities

[Rabidfrog]

the best way to evaluate any institution has to do with the kind of citizens it produces, and this is probably immeasurable. But we better start paying attention to this factor because our society in sinking into authoritarianism.

 

[tcudoc]

I went to TCU, where I met my amazing wife. My parents also met at tcu. We are beyond blessed with our family and careers, and certainly appreciate the role tcu played in that.

With 3 kids nearing college age, I always hoped at least one of them would end up a frog. But then the cost became... I'm not sure what to call it... High? Silly expensive? So much that successful parents of would-be 3rd generation Frogs can't afford it?

I get your comments above and am weighing the public vs private options right now with our daughter. It's hard to picture my kids in a class of 300 since we know first hand how valuable the education and corporate connections are at tcu.

But... Paying close to $85k per year for a business degree seems outrageous. And dumb. (I know some merit aid will help, but still).

Questions for you...

How much do the 3000 kids you hired make on average? Enough to warrant $50k+ in student debt?

Did you attend on scholarship? Family paid the bill? Did you graduate with loans?

We've saved quite a bit for college and have taught our kids the value of graduating with no/little debt unless they have a specific career track. It's frustrating that my school became so successful that it's now only for the ultra wealthy (or ultra poor I suppose).

Why can't it be the just above average university that costs just above average?

SIgh.

Same boat. I’m not ultra wealthy and couldn’t justify it. None of my four kids attended TCU. I actively discouraged it. I’m still glad that I went there but they priced us out. I finished in 90 back when a modest transfer scholarship would get the price comparable to the state schools. Two years at junior college, get a good academic scholarship to defray costs and finish up last two years at TCU and graduate with little to no debt. I don’t think that can realistically happen now for most.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

if you are making your college decision based on what you make your first out of school - you are doing it wrong.

Yeah - you can learn a trade, spend less than $30k getting an apprentice level degree and with some on the job training experience -make $60-70k year 1. But national labor surveys and union roles show that 25 years from now you will be maxing out at about 3-4x that amount in today's dollars.

Top tier Graduates with advanced degrees programs generally double their salary every 5-7 years through out their entire career - resulting in a salary of 10-14x starting at the 25 year anniversary before inflation adjustments.

Over the course of the first 20 years of a career - that difference is over $4 -6 million in total earnings. Is that worth investing $300k?

all depends on if you are going to do what it takes to make the investment worth it.

Jesus, what the hell do you do for a living?

 

[tcudoc]

Jesus, what the hell do you do for a living?

Jesus was a carpenter. I thought everyone knew that. Says so right in the Bible. Also, please watch your tone with our Lord and Savior.

**edit-Nevermind. I misunderstood.

 

[Peacefrog]

The California schools excel at it, eight of the Top Ten—

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/social-mobility

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/tcu-3636/overall-rankings

That’s a really dumb metric by which to measure a university. A university is better based upon how much money the government will subsidize to send students there? I thought it was about educating adults to be better contributors to the economy and society. But I guess not.

We are a stupid country.

 

[Peacefrog]

Jesus, what the hell do you do for a living?

With those kind of numbers I’m guessing he’s a bibliographer.

 

[FrogBall09]

Jesus, what the hell do you do for a living?

I work in the Tech sector - and have for about 30 years although obviously it didn't look anything like this 30 years ago.

But Data Science/Machine Learning degrees, BIS degrees with an emphasis on advanced analytics or data management, basic CS degrees with a focus on cloud and modernization, advanced engineering degrees, cyber risk and security or anything to do with AI - you can basically write your own number on a piece of paper right now.

That trend has been going on for over a decade, probably closer to 20 years - the only thing that has changed is the type of technology to focus on given the rate at which it is evolving.

Get a job on the side of a business that generates revenue (Ops, Sales, Marketing, Supply Chain) and then you are not viewed as a cost center but as a resource that drives top line growth - it all becomes about how much value you can deliver instead of how much you cost.

 

[lowfrog]

That’s a really dumb metric by which to measure a university. A university is better based upon how much money the government will subsidize to send students there? I thought it was about educating adults to be better contributors to the economy and society. But I guess not.

We are a stupid country.

A more useful list would be a list of the worst colleges and universities. Don't know what the best metrics would be for a worst list, but maybe it would get more clicks than a best list.

 

[Hemingway]

I work in the Tech sector - and have for about 30 years although obviously it didn't look anything like this 30 years ago.

But Data Science/Machine Learning degrees, BIS degrees with an emphasis on advanced analytics or data management, basic CS degrees with a focus on cloud and modernization, advanced engineering degrees, cyber risk and security or anything to do with AI - you can basically write your own number on a piece of paper right now.

That trend has been going on for over a decade, probably closer to 20 years - the only thing that has changed is the type of technology to focus on given the rate at which it is evolving.

Get a job on the side of a business that generates revenue (Ops, Sales, Marketing, Supply Chain) and then you are not viewed as a cost center but as a resource that drives top line growth - it all becomes about how much value you can deliver instead of how much you cost.

 

[Frog-in-law1995]

I work in the Tech sector - and have for about 30 years although obviously it didn't look anything like this 30 years ago.

But Data Science/Machine Learning degrees, BIS degrees with an emphasis on advanced analytics or data management, basic CS degrees with a focus on cloud and modernization, advanced engineering degrees, cyber risk and security or anything to do with AI - you can basically write your own number on a piece of paper right now.

That trend has been going on for over a decade, probably closer to 20 years - the only thing that has changed is the type of technology to focus on given the rate at which it is evolving.

Get a job on the side of a business that generates revenue (Ops, Sales, Marketing, Supply Chain) and then you are not viewed as a cost center but as a resource that drives top line growth - it all becomes about how much value you can deliver instead of how much you cost.

So, just to make sure I understand, a top flight grad school grad, coming in to the tech industry and making - say - a $100k starting salary, can roughly double that salary every 5 years for his whole career?

So after 25 years he’ll be making around $3.2 million per year? Not familiar with the industry, obviously, but that seems high.

 

[gohornedfrogs]

last year our starting salary for undergrads was $85K plus signing bonus and annual performance bonus. Our grads started at $115k at TCU but were a bit higher at schools with better grad programs. I hired 21 TCU under and grad students.

I played ball at TCU - so didn't pay for it but even if I did - it was nothing back then. However so was college in general - I think UT was $13 an hour.

My oldest went on a partial academic. we paid the full freight for my daughter. My middle son played for Schloss before stacking and ended up about half. My youngest is the smartest and wherever he goes I am guessing will involve some academic.

The world changed...because everyone thinks they need to go to college in the US and we have no trade system.

My point is it is not like we recruit at mid-tier schools but pay them $45k - we don't even recruit there. Not saying their grads won't find a job - I am saying it will be 10x harder and chances are they won't have the same pay and career growth opportunities as kids that graduate from "better" schools.

And by the way - while 98th isn't great - but it is far from slightly above average...do you know how many 4 year universities there are in the US? slightly under 3,000....

What industry do you hire for?

 

[FrogBall09]

So, just to make sure I understand, a top flight grad school grad, coming in to the tech industry and making - say - a $100k starting salary, can roughly double that salary every 5 years for his whole career?

So after 25 years he’ll be making around $3.2 million per year? Not familiar with the industry, obviously, but that seems high.

the doubling effect halts around 20 years in once you are part of the equity ownership - but until then - yes.

After that - depends on your role and contribution since what your income is comes from how many "shares" you are granted (or taken back) each year.

Most guys in our organization and in our sector that work in similarly structured companies make in the $1.2 - $1.6/yr after 20 years depending on market conditions and margin performance. Most guys that last 30 years make considerably more since they get more units every year until they retire. Obviously since that would be K-1 earnings not W2 income numbers - so there is a lot more risk than being an employee, like if we have an extended global economic decline lots of things can go the wrong way.

Lots of guys also get run off for failure to perform before achieving that 20-30 years - so everything has a flip side

 

[Virginia Frog]

Sounds like your kids are more awesome than my kids. And I've got 3 smart, hard working, talented kids (thanks to my wife of course). OK.. Maybe 2 out of 3.

Go Frogs.

When I was at TCU back in the mid-70s a marketing professor told me an old adage in academia:

"Be nice to your A students because they'll come back and be your colleagues. Be nice to your B students because they will send their children back to the university, And, be nice to your C students because they will endow a chair, build you a building or leave a substantial gift ($)."

All meaning that your kid may surprise you big time. Sometimes C students have a mind-set, skill-set different from the other "good grade" geniuses and in the real world can create/produce - often these are the entrepreneurs - outcomes that are unpredictable.

This is largely why TCU has an entrepreneurship program in Neeley (and student demand was the seed of this program.)

 

[Wexahu]

When I was at TCU back in the mid-70s a marketing professor told me an old adage in academia:
"Be nice to your A students because they'll come back and be your colleagues. Be nice to your B students because they will send their children back to the university, And, be nice to your C students because they will endow a chair, build you a building or leave a substantial gift ($)."

All meaning that your kid may surprise you big time. Sometimes C students have a mind-set, skill-set different from the other "good grade" geniuses and in the real world can create/produce - often these are the entrepreneurs - outcomes that are unpredictable.

This is largely why TCU has an entrepreneurship program in Neeley.

I think it's as simple as some people are driven to learn.......and some people are driven to do things. The former are generally better students, the latter are generally more successful in the real world. People don't get paid by how much they know, they get paid by how productive they are.

 

[steelfrog]

Same boat. I’m not ultra wealthy and couldn’t justify it. None of my four kids attended TCU. I actively discouraged it. I’m still glad that I went there but they priced us out. I finished in 90 back when a modest transfer scholarship would get the price comparable to the state schools. Two years at junior college, get a good academic scholarship to defray costs and finish up last two years at TCU and graduate with little to no debt. I don’t think that can realistically happen now for most.

Steel also finished in '90, and none of his 6 kids have even so much as applied to TCU.

Oldest one got 2 degrees from UTerus, one of which was CS; she has no fixed home now as she just travels around the world living in airbnbs and working remote; she's lived for periods in Iceland and Greece this year. 27

Second got 2 STEM degrees from NCST and just bought his first house in Cary for $520k. 26

Third got a STEM degree from TAMU and now working on 2 masters, also STEM, while working. 23

Fourth graduates TAMU with engineering degree in December. 22

Fifth in architecture at TAMU. 19

6th is SR in HS and trying to get into a CS program somewhere, not TCU obviously. 17

None of them have a dollar of student debt, which would not have been possible had they gone to TCU or a school like TCU.

 

[DeuceBoogieNights]

Well at least we don't have to deal with six steel offspring joingin the Forum.

 

[Eight]

Well at least we don't have to deal with six steel offspring joingin the Forum.

the reverse legacy from steel would have been the kiss of death for those kids and it is obvious the oldest has moved to europe to avoid any connection

 

[Chieves]

Somebody had sex with Steel 6 times? Human bravery truly knows no bounds.

 

[Eight]

Somebody had sex with Steel 6 times? Human bravery truly knows no bounds.

 

[Virginia Frog]

You really shouldn’t need to go to “college” to be a nurse, attorney, doctor or an accountant. You should have to go somewhere where they specifically teach you to be those things.

In some states one can become an attorney by “reading law” which is an apprenticeship of sorts. I do know a woman that did this here in VA. She never went to college, even for a day.