tcudoc
Full Member
I just realized I mispeled collage in my previous post. I apolugize.
2024 edition of Best Colleges is National Universities
- Thread starter Sweat Equity
- Start date
Eight
Member
your ability to climb over the mangled, battered bodies of your peers to get ahead in life
Was talking to a parent at the game on Saturday with students at TCU today. It's ~60k a year. They'd be paying over 70k by the time the freshman graduates. Fortunately, their kids were on full scholarships.
There's what... half a dozen degree plans at TCU with a reasonable chance of being worthwhile at that price tag? Even then, only if the student is truly excellent with incredible motivation and initiative.
There's what... half a dozen degree plans at TCU with a reasonable chance of being worthwhile at that price tag? Even then, only if the student is truly excellent with incredible motivation and initiative.
FrogBall09
Active Member
really? vs what?
You guys who rag on the cost of TCU and say it is never worth it - what alternative are you talking about?
other private schools are similarly priced.
Large state U like UT and A&M are amazingly difficult to get into.
Sorry - the Tarleton's, North Texas, SHSU and SFA's of the world do not offer access to the same level of recruitment as schools like Baylor, TCU, SMU. Even smaller private like Trinity and Southwest that have better academic reps than mid-tier public frankly don't get the focus from most companies anymore due to the cost to recruit.
We hired over 3000 college grads last year and our college campus recruiting team doesn't recruit at the mid-tier or small student population schools across the country at all. We only go to Rice at this point because of a few senior partners who are loyal to them.
So what is left - Tech, OU, the SEC schools - you better be a self motivated rock star there - because while my dog can get into most of them and tuition is comparatively cheap, there are 300+ students in every sub-300 level class, most classes are taught by grad students, test are often scantron or other multiple choice to reduce grading effort and you will graduate with 5k other students - so a 3.8 will drop you out of the top 15% easy.
If a student is serious about their education and can be successful anywhere - then going to a lower tier undergrad - killing it GPA wise - and then going to a well known grad school is a great route.
But if you fail to get into that top tier grad school - then you are just another of the over-degreed minions with Exec MBA's from nothing special U
This Ain't Chopped Liver
Active Member
The California schools excel at it, eight of the Top Ten—
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James Penny
Active Member
I went to TCU, where I met my amazing wife. My parents also met at tcu. We are beyond blessed with our family and careers, and certainly appreciate the role tcu played in that.
With 3 kids nearing college age, I always hoped at least one of them would end up a frog. But then the cost became... I'm not sure what to call it... High? Silly expensive? So much that successful parents of would-be 3rd generation Frogs can't afford it?
I get your comments above and am weighing the public vs private options right now with our daughter. It's hard to picture my kids in a class of 300 since we know first hand how valuable the education and corporate connections are at tcu.
But... Paying close to $85k per year for a business degree seems outrageous. And dumb. (I know some merit aid will help, but still).
Questions for you...
How much do the 3000 kids you hired make on average? Enough to warrant $50k+ in student debt?
Did you attend on scholarship? Family paid the bill? Did you graduate with loans?
We've saved quite a bit for college and have taught our kids the value of graduating with no/little debt unless they have a specific career track. It's frustrating that my school became so successful that it's now only for the ultra wealthy (or ultra poor I suppose).
Why can't it be the just above average university that costs just above average?
SIgh.
Dadof1Frog
Member
As a Dad of a current Horned Frog student, I have to add my 2 cents. My daughter did well in High School and had lots of options (We are not from Texas). For some reason she fell in love with TCU her sophomore year in High School and this was her dream school. The cost to send her here, is not something that we took on lightly nor bear without sacrifices.
She's a Junior now and continues to do well. We've met many of the kids she's close to. Almost to a tee, they are all motivated, career minded, and for most part just good kids who share her and our families values. I think she's getting a pretty good education but almost as important she's interacting with kids who have the same goals and work ethic. So there may be less expensive educational options out there but I'm pretty happy with my investment so far.
FrogBall09
Active Member
last year our starting salary for undergrads was $85K plus signing bonus and annual performance bonus. Our grads started at $115k at TCU but were a bit higher at schools with better grad programs. I hired 21 TCU under and grad students.I went to TCU, where I met my amazing wife. My parents also met at tcu. We are beyond blessed with our family and careers, and certainly appreciate the role tcu played in that.
With 3 kids nearing college age, I always hoped at least one of them would end up a frog. But then the cost became... I'm not sure what to call it... High? Silly expensive? So much that successful parents of would-be 3rd generation Frogs can't afford it?
I get your comments above and am weighing the public vs private options right now with our daughter. It's hard to picture my kids in a class of 300 since we know first hand how valuable the education and corporate connections are at tcu.
But... Paying close to $85k per year for a business degree seems outrageous. And dumb. (I know some merit aid will help, but still).
Questions for you...
How much do the 3000 kids you hired make on average? Enough to warrant $50k+ in student debt?
Did you attend on scholarship? Family paid the bill? Did you graduate with loans?
We've saved quite a bit for college and have taught our kids the value of graduating with no/little debt unless they have a specific career track. It's frustrating that my school became so successful that it's now only for the ultra wealthy (or ultra poor I suppose).
Why can't it be the just above average university that costs just above average?
SIgh.
I played ball at TCU - so didn't pay for it but even if I did - it was nothing back then. However so was college in general - I think UT was $13 an hour.
My oldest went on a partial academic. we paid the full freight for my daughter. My middle son played for Schloss before stacking and ended up about half. My youngest is the smartest and wherever he goes I am guessing will involve some academic.
The world changed...because everyone thinks they need to go to college in the US and we have no trade system.
My point is it is not like we recruit at mid-tier schools but pay them $45k - we don't even recruit there. Not saying their grads won't find a job - I am saying it will be 10x harder and chances are they won't have the same pay and career growth opportunities as kids that graduate from "better" schools.
And by the way - while 98th isn't great - but it is far from slightly above average...do you know how many 4 year universities there are in the US? slightly under 3,000....
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hometown frog
Active Member
Similar story for our fam as some above. Wife and I both went to TCU and my MIL and SIL went to and worked at TCU. So a ton of legacy thinking for us. My daughter graduated HS this past year and initially had zero interest in going to TCU. (Headstrong and wanted to go her own path; which we thought was great thinking. AND it meant we didn’t have to pay crazy $$)
However she wants to go into med school and become a Dr. As she compared big state school options w TCUs, their pre-med placement rates and undergrad faculty advisor programs absolutely destroyed any comparison to Aggie/UNTs pre med programs. The campus tours were obviously no match to TCUs. Then she got a great scholly thru TCU and a couple of small private scholarships that made the financial differences at least in the ballpark. So she’s now a freshman on campus and loving every minute of it.
it’s still WAY too expensive to make sense across the board. But I also think the costs at most major colleges are stupid for the education you get. So we wound up comparing levels of insanity and deciding the one she thought gave her the best chance to get the MD certificate at the end of this journey.
However she wants to go into med school and become a Dr. As she compared big state school options w TCUs, their pre-med placement rates and undergrad faculty advisor programs absolutely destroyed any comparison to Aggie/UNTs pre med programs. The campus tours were obviously no match to TCUs. Then she got a great scholly thru TCU and a couple of small private scholarships that made the financial differences at least in the ballpark. So she’s now a freshman on campus and loving every minute of it.
it’s still WAY too expensive to make sense across the board. But I also think the costs at most major colleges are stupid for the education you get. So we wound up comparing levels of insanity and deciding the one she thought gave her the best chance to get the MD certificate at the end of this journey.
I'd argue the 115k salary does not justify the cost. And thats easily a salary on the top end of the scale. Most folks graduating TCU in general aren't coming close to that until years later in their career.
We're talking about a full mortgage cost on typical small (by modern standards) 2000sq ft suburban home by the time a kid finishes at TCU. Would you say an education degree justifies it? Nursing? Those jobs are so in demand that the name of the school on the reciept is irrelevant. Sam Houston State or somesuch at a quarter of the price would suffice.
I've seen my company and our peer companies hire kids at nearly 80k with a 2yr technical degree that cost them maybe 15k all in. They're up at least 150k before thier cohort at a place like TCU has finished piling up 240k+ in debt.
I loved my time at TCU too. I wouldn't suggest it today for any degree program to anyone other than maybe the entrepreneur programs. Its just bad math.
But if you got a full ride or are attending on generational wealth, knock yourself out.
We're talking about a full mortgage cost on typical small (by modern standards) 2000sq ft suburban home by the time a kid finishes at TCU. Would you say an education degree justifies it? Nursing? Those jobs are so in demand that the name of the school on the reciept is irrelevant. Sam Houston State or somesuch at a quarter of the price would suffice.
I've seen my company and our peer companies hire kids at nearly 80k with a 2yr technical degree that cost them maybe 15k all in. They're up at least 150k before thier cohort at a place like TCU has finished piling up 240k+ in debt.
I loved my time at TCU too. I wouldn't suggest it today for any degree program to anyone other than maybe the entrepreneur programs. Its just bad math.
But if you got a full ride or are attending on generational wealth, knock yourself out.
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Big Frog II
Active Member
If I had to pay full tuition at TCU, I too would have to look elsewhere. However, they do have a ton of scholarships available. Don't say your kid can't go there until you investigate. Believe me when I tell you that the companies that pay the big salaries for new employees are looking at schools like TCU.
Nursing is the most popular degree program at TCU. A job that is in such high demand, the school on the degree is irrelevant. You're just as equally hirable as someone with a degree from Sam Houston State. But they paid a quarter what a TCU student is paying for the privilege.
FrogBall09
Active Member
if you are making your college decision based on what you make your first out of school - you are doing it wrong.
Yeah - you can learn a trade, spend less than $30k getting an apprentice level degree and with some on the job training experience -make $60-70k year 1. But national labor surveys and union roles show that 25 years from now you will be maxing out at about 3-4x that amount in today's dollars.
Top tier Graduates with advanced degrees programs generally double their salary every 5-7 years through out their entire career - resulting in a salary of 10-14x starting at the 25 year anniversary before inflation adjustments.
Over the course of the first 20 years of a career - that difference is over $4 -6 million in total earnings. Is that worth investing $300k?
all depends on if you are going to do what it takes to make the investment worth it.
Sweat Equity
Tier 1
I have said this in The Pit but we take the "what can you do for us" and "what can we do for you" approach. No CVs required. No degrees necessary. (Unless required by law.)
The Tesla/SpaceX approach.
Sangria Wine
Active Member
It’s not just a TCU problem where it comes to cost. The whole higher education system is messed up. More about master planning a fun and vibrant community for young adults to live in and do their thing than anything else. You build a young adult resort setting and then charge their parents for them to live there full time and also by the way get an education along the way. Our gubment guarantees a lot of loans for students to experience this 4-7 year fun time and then pay for it the 10 years after they graduate. Take away financing, require cash payment and you’ll find out what it’s worth. As with all things when the gubment backs it with our tax dollars the cost ceiling is bastardized.
I'm not arguing the top tier students. Those are your most motivated people either way. They were always going to be the most successful. They probably shouldn't have gone to TCU either and should have spent those years becoming MrBeast or starting a podcast to leverage their genius. Of course those folks will make the degree pay for itself easily.
Most of the students that graduate TCU aren't top tier. They're the other students that didn't get a special stole or sash to wear at graduation. They paid the same price the top tier graduates are paying, and there's far more of them graduating annually.
For most folks, by the time they're 5 years or so into their career, the degree doesn't matter so much as their results at the workplace. The degree provides diminishing returns throughout most folks career. Certain degree levels (like an MBA) may gate your progress within certain companies. At that point though, most companies will pick up the tab if they really want to see you move up.
Most of the students that graduate TCU aren't top tier. They're the other students that didn't get a special stole or sash to wear at graduation. They paid the same price the top tier graduates are paying, and there's far more of them graduating annually.
For most folks, by the time they're 5 years or so into their career, the degree doesn't matter so much as their results at the workplace. The degree provides diminishing returns throughout most folks career. Certain degree levels (like an MBA) may gate your progress within certain companies. At that point though, most companies will pick up the tab if they really want to see you move up.
This Ain't Chopped Liver
Active Member
“TCU came in at No. 89 for Best Value Schools.”
James Penny
Active Member
Sounds like your kids are more awesome than my kids. And I've got 3 smart, hard working, talented kids (thanks to my wife of course). OK.. Maybe 2 out of 3.
Or.. You've got way way more money than I do to pay for it. Either way.. Kudos.
We need more good people hiring and leading other good people. I'm still not sure I can wager spending $1MM+ for 3 tcu degrees and going into debt for it. But I'm glad others are willing to do that.
Send me your kids' contact info.. So I can have mine reach out for a job after they graduate from a large public university that doesn't guarantee doubling their income every 5 years.*
* I honestly don't mean to sound so bitter, or like a dikk. Life is good! The whole thing is just frustrating and somewhat stressful. I love hearing how confident you are about it and wish your crew nothing but the best.
Go Frogs.
Sweat Equity
Tier 1
In light of the abv, I now read a bedtime from Sam Harris:
But, as a matter of conscious experience, the reality of your life is always now. And I think that this is a liberating truth about the nature of the human mind. In fact, I think, there’s probably nothing more important to understand about your mind, than that, if you want to be happy in this world. The past is a memory; it’s a thought arising in the present. The future is merely anticipated; it is another thought arising now. What we truly have is this moment. And this. And we spend most of our lives forgetting this truth, refuting it, fleeing it, overlooking it. And the horror is that we succeed. We manage to never really connect with the present moment and find fulfillment there, because we are continually hopping to become happy in the future. And the future never arrives. Even when we think we’re in the present moment, we’re, in very subtle ways, always looking over its shoulder, anticipating what’s coming next. We’re always solving a problem. And it’s possible to simply drop your problem, if only for a moment. And enjoy whatever is true of your life in the present.
But, as a matter of conscious experience, the reality of your life is always now. And I think that this is a liberating truth about the nature of the human mind. In fact, I think, there’s probably nothing more important to understand about your mind, than that, if you want to be happy in this world. The past is a memory; it’s a thought arising in the present. The future is merely anticipated; it is another thought arising now. What we truly have is this moment. And this. And we spend most of our lives forgetting this truth, refuting it, fleeing it, overlooking it. And the horror is that we succeed. We manage to never really connect with the present moment and find fulfillment there, because we are continually hopping to become happy in the future. And the future never arrives. Even when we think we’re in the present moment, we’re, in very subtle ways, always looking over its shoulder, anticipating what’s coming next. We’re always solving a problem. And it’s possible to simply drop your problem, if only for a moment. And enjoy whatever is true of your life in the present.
