NIU Graduate Transfer LB Visiting

[FrogLifeYo]

I think he’s going to help quite a bit...He’s very similar in size to Howard...concern here is a 1 year guy coming into a very complicated defensive scheme...

 

[Moose Stuff]

Those are two pretty terrible examples. Reagor was a top 150 recruit who was named Co-Offensive Freshman of the year in the Big 12. Gaines was a 2nd-year player who has all the measurables and played major minutes on what was probably the conference's best defense.

I just think your hyberole is kind of running rampant here. I hope you're right and that this guy is a day 1 no-doubt starter who is going to make a huge difference, but regardless of what his tape shows, he's played several years for a MAC team and that conference's voters (who I would assume watch way more MAC football that any of us do) thought he was a 3rd-team all conference player, in a conference that isn't very good. Maybe they were all just blind to how good he was, I don't know. Again, most of us are saying he's a nice addition that will push for and maybe win a starting position, that's not bad. Glad he picked TCU, but I don't think pointing out that he was 3rd-team all league is "beyond meaningless" any more than you saying he's got a great tape.

So just to be clear...... you think the All Conference team a player does or doesn’t make is as or more important than the actual tape that shows how good the player is???

 

[Moose Stuff]

deleted.

Well said.

 

[Wexahu]

So just to be clear...... you think the All Conference team a player does or doesn’t make is as or more important than the actual tape that shows how good the player is???

Well, I know that a heavily-produced 4:33 highlight tape doesn't "show how good a player is". I lost count but there were about 30 plays in it and about half of those they didn't really show how anything developed so I don't have a clue how anyone could really assess much from this video. You could take any TCU starting defensive player and create a highlight video like this and every one would look like a badass....and that would be against Big 12 and not MAC competition. Who knows, maybe in the other 600 or so plays he had last year there were a bunch of bad angles taken, missed tackles, and blown assignments. I'd put way more stock in the note that PFF had about the kid than his "tape", so that is definitely promising.

So to answer your question, yes, I think the fact that the guys following the conference and assumedly watching most of the games voted him a 3rd team all conference LB carries more weight than what a highlight film does. People don't just draw names out of a hat to determine All-Conference teams, you seem to pretend like postseason accolades are just totally meaningless. If JJ made 1st team All-American that's all anyone would be talking about here.

 

[Peacefrog]

I'm still undecided on this debate. Let's get a few more pages' worth of arguments in tonight.

 

[CountryFrog]

Well, I know that a heavily-produced 4:33 highlight tape doesn't "show how good a player is". I lost count but there were about 30 plays in it and about half of those they didn't really show how anything developed so I don't have a clue how anyone could really assess much from this video. You could take any TCU starting defensive player and create a highlight video like this and every one would look like a badass....and that would be against Big 12 and not MAC competition. Who knows, maybe in the other 600 or so plays he had last year there were a bunch of bad angles taken, missed tackles, and blown assignments. I'd put way more stock in the note that PFF had about the kid than his "tape", so that is definitely promising.

So to answer your question, yes, I think the fact that the guys following the conference and assumedly watching most of the games voted him a 3rd team all conference LB carries more weight than what a highlight film does. People don't just draw names out of a hat to determine All-Conference teams, you seem to pretend like postseason accolades are just totally meaningless. If JJ made 1st team All-American that's all anyone would be talking about here.

I actually agree with some of your points, but you're the one whose spent years telling us how meaningless and random conference championships are. Now you're telling us how meaningful and insightful all conference teams are. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

 

[MinerFrog2409]

Well, I know that a heavily-produced 4:33 highlight tape doesn't "show how good a player is". I lost count but there were about 30 plays in it and about half of those they didn't really show how anything developed so I don't have a clue how anyone could really assess much from this video. You could take any TCU starting defensive player and create a highlight video like this and every one would look like a badass....and that would be against Big 12 and not MAC competition. Who knows, maybe in the other 600 or so plays he had last year there were a bunch of bad angles taken, missed tackles, and blown assignments. I'd put way more stock in the note that PFF had about the kid than his "tape", so that is definitely promising.

So to answer your question, yes, I think the fact that the guys following the conference and assumedly watching most of the games voted him a 3rd team all conference LB carries more weight than what a highlight film does. People don't just draw names out of a hat to determine All-Conference teams, you seem to pretend like postseason accolades are just totally meaningless. If JJ made 1st team All-American that's all anyone would be talking about here.

I think given that he was the highest graded linebacker IN THE COUNTRY by PFF and then got 3rd team all conference in the MAC should tell you how useless most(and probably this one) conference teams are. And if you can find 1 guy on our defense who forced 10 turnovers last year and put it on tape then I will believe you about how "any TCU starting defensive player" can make a video like that.

 

[Wexahu]

I actually agree with some of your points, but you're the one whose spent years telling us how meaningless and random conference championships are. Now you're telling us how meaningful and insightful all conference teams are. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

I don't get the comparison. I've said that conference championships that are determined by tiebreakers (which a lot are) should be generally meaningless in terms of determining which teams should be selected for the playoffs, mostly because some teams play such unbalanced schedules. I still believe that. I was initially responding to the idea that he made 3rd team all-conference was "beyond meaningless". I think that's kind of ridiculous, I think its means at least something. That's like saying it makes no difference whether a kid was 1st-team All-American and National POY or didn't even make Honorable Mention All-Conference team, all that matters is what you see on his highlight tape. So you're saying if he were the MAC defensive POY last year you'd have to wait and see his tape before you decided he was a really good player?

 

[tcumaniac]

Wexahu often wears me the hell out with his tireless arguing, but I do think he’s making some valid points in this situation.

It’s no doubt a bit curious that someone that is supposedly as good as some people are already making him out to be would only be 3rd team all conference in one of the weaker conferences in the country.

His film is certainly impressive, and naturally, I would love for him to come in and be the next Paul Dawson or better, but I also don’t think it’s unreasonable to temper expectations rather than all but deeming him a likely starter for next season.

 

[asleep003]

Worst case scenario is he could be an excellent Special teams player, if he doesn't grab the GP defense quick enough.

 

[CountryFrog]

I don't get the comparison. I've said that conference championships that are determined by tiebreakers (which a lot are) should be generally meaningless in terms of determining which teams should be selected for the playoffs, mostly because some teams play such unbalanced schedules. I still believe that. I was initially responding to the idea that he made 3rd team all-conference was "beyond meaningless". I think that's kind of ridiculous, I think its means at least something. That's like saying it makes no difference whether a kid was 1st-team All-American and National POY or didn't even make Honorable Mention All-Conference team, all that matters is what you see on his highlight tape. So you're saying if he were the MAC defensive POY last year you'd have to wait and see his tape before you decided he was a really good player?

I'm not saying any of that. I've seen 0 minutes of NIU football since they played TCU so I have no opinion of this player and I'm certainly not trusting the media to tell me how good he is.

I just think its strange that you say conference championships are meaningless even though they are actually determined on the field by wins and losses but you think a group of 20 media members casting ballots for guys they think are good is a quality way of determining how talented individual players are.

One is done on a field and the other is done in a board room. You do love the playoff committee, though, so maybe you're actually being super consistent.