• The KillerFrogs

Kf.c Mythbusters

One of the many rationales we hear for not being "deserving" of consideration is the accepted myth that it is easier for non-AQ schools to end the season unscathed. Of course we know that what advocates of this myth fail to take under consideration is that while the non-AQ schools may have easier conference schedules to wade through, they also have a number of disadvantages that the AQ conference teams don't deal with both financially and with perception.

So is it really "easier" to go undefeated in non-AQ conferences? If the quality of a conference is a determining factor in teams going undefeated then it should be a piece of cake getting through the MAC or SBC, right?

The reality is mixed.

I went back and looked at the last 10 years in each conference and noted the number of times the champion of each conference finished the season undefeated in conference. Here they are from highest number to lowest:

T-1. MWC 7 (BYU 3 -- 2001, 2006, 2007; Utah 2 -- 2004, 2008; TCU 2 -- 2005, 2009)
T-1. WAC 7 (Boise 6 -- 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009; Hawaii 1 -- 2007)
3. Big East 5 (Miami 3 -- 2000, 2001, 2002; WVU 1 -- 2005; Cincy 1 -- 2009)
T-4. Big 12 4 (OU 2 -- 2000, 2004; Texas 2 -- 2005, 2009)
T-4. Sun Belt 4 (University of North Texas 3 -- 2002, 2003, 2004; Troy 1 -- 2009
6. Big 10 3 (OSU 2 -- 2002, 2006; Iowa 1 -- 2002)
T-7. PAC10 2 (USC 2 -- 2004, 2005)
T-7. SEC 2 (Auburn 1 -- 2005, Alabama 1 -- 2009)
T-7. MAC 2 (MiamiOh 1 -- 2003; Cent Mich 1 -- 2009)
T-7. CUSA 2 (USM 1 -- 2003; L'ville 1 -- 2004)
11. ACC 1 (FSU 1 -- 2000)

A few things to note about the above, the Big East and Sun Belt conferences have always only played 7 conference games (in fact the 2002 University of North Texas team only played 6 conference games) and the 2001 BYU and 2004 Utah teams also played only 7 conference games.

Conference championships muddle the data a little. For instance the 2003 OU team also went undefeated in conference during the regular season but lost to a Kansas State team that had lost 2 conference games that year. The 2008 Alabama and 2009 Florida teams also went undefeated in conference during the regular season but lost their conference championship games (2009 Florida to and also undefeated Alabama). The MAC has also cost itself two undefeated teams in championship games (Marshall 2001 and Ball St. 2008). But since the argument is that it is harder to get through the AQ conferences unscathed and the conference championship games are (usually but not always, see OU 2003) another hurdle to an undefeated season, they should probably count.

So since 2000, there have been 39 teams to make it to their bowl game undefeated in conference play. Seventeen have been from AQ conferences and 22 from non-AQ conferences. Fourteen of those 22 have come from the MWC and WAC, arguably the toughest of the five non-AQ conferences, and 6 of those 14 have been Boise.

So what does all this say? Well, clearly it has been "easier" to wade through the MWC and WAC undefeated than other conferences. But can it really be considered "easier" in the case of the MWC when you've had three teams do it multiple times in the last 10 years?

Meanwhile, what does it say that the "lesser" of the non-AQ conferences have not been any easier to get through unscathed than anybody else? And the ACC, which has not been a particularly strong conference of late, hasn't had an undefeated champion since 2000?

What this seems to point to isn't so much "ease" of going undefeated as a severe lack of parity in the MWC and the WAC. In the case of the WAC, it's pretty much been Boise and then everybody else for the entire decade. The case of the MWC is more interesting though because while the MWC has been the "Big 3" and everybody else for the whole decade, it's interesting that the "Big 3" have not been more effective in knocking each other out in the round robin. In fact, since TCU joined in 2005, the Big 3 have never all ended the season 1-1 against the other two. Someone has always come out with wins over both of the other two.

So at the end of the day, what does this all say? Is the myth valid? Yes and no, I think. It's hard to refute the numbers ... it has been quite commonplace for the MWC and WAC champions to get out of conference unscathed. But is it really "easier?" If it were easy, why don't more teams from the MAC and Sun Belt do it, especially given that the Sun Belt only plays 7 conference games? And if it were easy, why haven't SMU, Houston and Rice ... all schools that were nominally in a "have" conference that got relegated to a "have-not" conference had an easier road to success?

Long winded, I know ... but some food for thought as we wait for Saturday.
 

joejordan

Member
Interesting, thanks for the data.

I have contended that TCU is really competing with only about 25 other schools for a BCS slot. Much like the BCS is set up to keep the fodder conferences around AND down (they need the OOC games, but don't want to share the post season money), the Elite schools within each conference work to keep their conference-fodder around and down. Thats why there are 3-4 good teams in each major conference, the rest are there to cash checks they don't earn, in return for being a punching bag.

I think the stupid MNC is just outside our reach right now. That could change, this season. BCS bowls and the money that goes with it, is well within our (or a high performing conference-mate) grasp. The WAC and MWC have claimed more money than BCS boosters wanted us to. The original BCS buster benefitted from what should have been called the TCU rule, from the previous season.
 

Goodnight

New Member
Hole in the argument: Previous years do not apply to this year.

Our conference had a terrible non conference season this year, unlike seasons past where the bottom of our conference wasn't fodder for WAC teams like UNLV and BYU have been this year.
 
Hole in the argument: Previous years do not apply to this year.

Our conference had a terrible non conference season this year, unlike seasons past where the bottom of our conference wasn't fodder for WAC teams like UNLV and BYU have been this year.

Not a hole in the argument because OOC wasn't part of the argument, but for the sake of argument I'd say the MWC OOC hasn't been "terrible." Down from 2007-9 but on par with 2005-6: http://www.cfbtrivia.com/...n&jpl=on&spl=on&sortby=Year, and a far sight better than the ACC and Big East nonetheless.

But the issue I wanted to look at is the difficulty of going undefeated in conference.
 
I think what you are saying is that the ease of making it through a conference slate unscathed depends on two things- the strength of the team going undefeated and the strength of the conference as a whole. Either can result in increased likelihood of an undefeated conference record.

I do think that as far as the MWC the strength of the conference as a whole is less than some AQ conferences (although not as much as the BCS apologists would want you to believe). But I'd argue that that doesn't necessarily take away from the quality/strength of the undefeated team. If the New Orleans Saints played in the WAC, does the lesser strength of the league mean they aren't as good as the team that makes it through the SEC and wins? No, clearly they are still a better team (although I'm sure there are SEC fans that would argue the point).

Since the college football season is so short with so little crossover nonconference action, you have to look at other things besides SOS to see who are the strongest teams- MOV, stats (especially efficiency stats), etc.
 
I think what you are saying is that the ease of making it through a conference slate unscathed depends on two things- the strength of the team going undefeated and the strength of the conference as a whole. Either can result in increased likelihood of an undefeated conference record.

I do think that as far as the MWC the strength of the conference as a whole is less than some AQ conferences (although not as much as the BCS apologists would want you to believe). But I'd argue that that doesn't necessarily take away from the quality/strength of the undefeated team. If the New Orleans Saints played in the WAC, does the lesser strength of the league mean they aren't as good as the team that makes it through the SEC and wins? No, clearly they are still a better team (although I'm sure there are SEC fans that would argue the point).

Since the college football season is so short with so little crossover nonconference action, you have to look at other things besides SOS to see who are the strongest teams- MOV, stats (especially efficiency stats), etc.

A more eloquent way of putting it, than I did. I've made your New Orleans Saints argument a couple of times ... you could put the Saints in the Sun Belt and they'd go 12-0 and would no doubt be the best team in college football, yet no one would give them credit for it. Another point is, put Alabama under the same restrictions and limitations with which other Sun Belt teams have to compete and their ability to run the table would diminish significantly over time. Fan interest would wane, recruits would be harder to come by, financial resources would evaporate. Yes, this year's SEC Bama team would go undefeated in the SBC. But put Bama in the Sun Belt for a few years and the "ease" with which Bama coasted through the conference would get progressively harder.

So when a team like TCU, Boise, or Utah can show that it can not only dominate a conference in a given year but compete and win against teams that have the AQ advantages they don't have ... there is more that goes into that equation than just conference toughness. If it were, SMU and Houston would have had a much easier go of getting to respectability and beyond ...
 

Goo

Active Member
Was just looking at ACC conf


#1 FSU lost to OU by 27 pt's more than Air Force.
You could make a case that AFA would win ACC

#2 VaTech lost to JAMES MADISON

then you have:

Duke, UVA, UNC, Maryland, Wake Forest, Clemson, Boston College

This conference is weak.
 

Frogo

Full Member
Was just looking at ACC conf


#1 FSU lost to OU by 27 pt's more than Air Force.
You could make a case that AFA would win ACC

#2 VaTech lost to JAMES MADISON

then you have:

Duke, UVA, UNC, Maryland, Wake Forest, Clemson, Boston College

This conference is weak.

That, and I don't buy into the meme that the MWC is weaker this year than many AQ conferences. TCU, Utah, AF, and San Diego are all really good this year. San Diego beat Missouri and BYU (but not the refs). Who's better than the MWC? SEC? B12? B10? I don't think so.
 

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