Keep Your Chin Up

[Pharm Frog]

I believe it is sweet to win the conference title on the way to the CFP, especially since it will now guarantee a spot in the 12 team playoff. Come 2024 there will be more P5 teams in the playoff than P5 champions; the latter is more exclusive company. You can join the 12 team playoff as a champion or not. I will prefer the champion way in, like Michigan this year, versus the coming “at-large” label; and I think Ohio State and Max Duggan would concur. After a loss in the 12 team playoff, you will then have a conference title for the historical ledger. This year Michigan has that and Ohio State does not.

@Wexahu @bc puckett @CountryFrog

At this point I care neither what OSU or Max may or may not prefer. I did like the Michigan way into the CFP since they lost in the semis. There is no historical ledger anymore. Cotton Bowl not played in the Cotton Bowl. Orange Bowl not played in the Sugar Bowl. Teams changing conferences routinely. Players migrating every season.

 

[DFWRaider]

Meh. The B12 conference championship is pretty irrelevant, considering how they award it. It’s all about CFP rankings now.

Any conference championship is irrelevant anymore. This year is a perfect example -- two of the four CFP teams didn't even win their conference. There is no other sports league I can think of whether it's high school, FCS, or the pros where winning your league/division means less.

I'd like to see those titles mean something, and I think the 12-team playoff will help change that. Texas high school football which to me is the Gold Standard of football playoffs is all done completely objectively, and as such there are no debates or complaints about who did or didn't make the playoff. Everyone is in control of their own destiny when the season starts.

But college football national champions are basically decided by the subjective minds of a committee. I've given my thoughts in the OP on TCU making it to the title game, but in an objective scenario neither Ohio State or TCU would have been there. And because of the loss this year that same subjective committee will use their biases to make sure no Big 12 team is part of the playoff next year whether they win the title or not. It's complete BS and it makes the college football postseason far less compelling than any other league.

But with all that said, this year TCU did what it needed to within the system we have to get there, and beat the Big 10 champion in the process. The current narrative being perpetuated by Herbstreit, ESPN, and a bunch of others is complete BS and they all seem to forget that TCU had that game against Michigan. Herbie did mention Michigan once when he said that their players didn't take TCU seriously, figured it would be an easy cakewalk win so didn't prepare, etc. It's complete BS and won't stop until we get a 100% objective path to the playoff which will never happen. But the 12 team playoff will be much closer at least.

 

[Wexahu]

Any conference championship is irrelevant anymore. This year is a perfect example -- two of the four CFP teams didn't even win their conference. There is no other sports league I can think of whether it's high school, FCS, or the pros where winning your league/division means less.

I'd like to see those titles mean something, and I think the 12-team playoff will help change that. Texas high school football which to me is the Gold Standard of football playoffs is all done completely objectively, and as such there are no debates or complaints about who did or didn't make the playoff. Everyone is in control of their own destiny when the season starts.

But college football national champions are basically decided by the subjective minds of a committee. I've given my thoughts in the OP on TCU making it to the title game, but in an objective scenario neither Ohio State or TCU would have been there. And because of the loss this year that same subjective committee will use their biases to make sure no Big 12 team is part of the playoff next year whether they win the title or not. It's complete BS and it makes the college football postseason far less compelling than any other league.

But with all that said, this year TCU did what it needed to within the system we have to get there, and beat the Big 10 champion in the process. The current narrative being perpetuated by Herbstreit, ESPN, and a bunch of others is complete BS and they all seem to forget that TCU had that game against Michigan. Herbie did mention Michigan once when he said that their players didn't take TCU seriously, figured it would be an easy cakewalk win so didn't prepare, etc. It's complete BS and won't stop until we get a 100% objective path to the playoff which will never happen. But the 12 team playoff will be much closer at least.

What biases?

I can’t believe you’re bitching about the committee after this year. We lost our CCG and didn’t drop a spot (first time that had ever happened I believe), and they had K-State as the highest ranked three-loss team since the first week of the CFP rankings.

People are going to have opinions. You lose a bowl game by the largest amount in history people are going to weigh in. We’d be saying the same thing about any other team if they got beat in the manner that we did. Besides, who cares what they think? They don’t pick the teams.

 

[DFWRaider]

What biases?

I can’t believe you’re bitching about the committee after this year. We lost our CCG and didn’t drop a spot (first time that had ever happened I believe), and they had K-State as the highest ranked three-loss team since the first week of the CFP rankings.

People are going to have opinions. You lose a bowl game by the largest amount in history people are going to weigh in. We’d be saying the same thing about any other team if they got beat in the manner that we did. Besides, who cares what they think? They don’t pick the teams.

Maybe I wasn't clear if that's what you took from my post; my issue with college postseason is that it's subjective vs. objective. The committee is simply a byproduct of a system that is subjective vs. objective. Can you imagine if the NFL or Texas HS football had a committee to determine who played for the Super Bowl or the State Championship? No, because in those leagues the participants are chosen by their performance on the field; there are no style points or favoritism because of the 'eye test'. That's why it's impossible to have teams like a wild card Super Bowl Champion Tampa Bay or a 4-loss 5A state champion like Beaumont West Brook back in the day in college. Teams like those can't play their way to the title in college, and they'd never be deemed worthy by the CFP committee.

And I disagree about biases all being the same. Nebraska beat Florida 62-24 for the college championship back in '96 and I never once heard anyone say Florida didn't belong there; the narrative was all about how good Nebraska was that year. If Georgia had beaten Michigan or Ohio State that badly I don't believe Herbie would have been out there saying Michigan or Ohio State shouldn't have been there. Heck, if UT or OU had lost like that we wouldn't be hearing it. That's the bias I'm talking about and I think it's very real.

In any event, wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. I signed up to post here for one reason and that was to say congratulations after the Michigan win. Take it easy.

 

[Wexahu]

Maybe I wasn't clear if that's what you took from my post; my issue with college postseason is that it's subjective vs. objective. The committee is simply a byproduct of a system that is subjective vs. objective. Can you imagine if the NFL or Texas HS football had a committee to determine who played for the Super Bowl or the State Championship? No, because in those leagues the participants are chosen by their performance on the field; there are no style points or favoritism because of the 'eye test'. That's why it's impossible to have teams like a wild card Super Bowl Champion Tampa Bay or a 4-loss 5A state champion like Beaumont West Brook back in the day in college. Teams like those can't play their way to the title in college, and they'd never be deemed worthy by the CFP committee.

And I disagree about biases all being the same. Nebraska beat Florida 62-24 for the college championship back in '96 and I never once heard anyone say Florida didn't belong there; the narrative was all about how good Nebraska was that year. If Georgia had beaten Michigan or Ohio State that badly I don't believe Herbie would have been out there saying Michigan or Ohio State shouldn't have been there. Heck, if UT or OU had lost like that we wouldn't be hearing it. That's the bias I'm talking about and I think it's very real.

In any event, wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. I signed up to post here for one reason and that was to say congratulations after the Michigan win. Take it easy.

I'm pretty sure Herbstreit said that we earned our spot in the game, not that we "shouldn't have been there". What he questioned (and it wasn't so much him questioning it as much as bringing up the supposed narrative) of us being able to compete with the elite SEC teams.

We got our asses handed to us in an almost unprecedented way. It looked every bit as bad as the score. I got a text from my impartial brother halfway through the second quarter that said "it looks like you don't belong!". When you have a beatdown like that, criticism will come your way. And to be perfectly honest with you, there is almost no way an Ohio State or Alabama loses in that kind of fashion, where it is just total physical domination. I'd probably throw Michigan in there as well, they'd have held up better than we did. Wouldn't have won or kept it close, but it wouldn't have looked like it did.

 

[Mean Purple]

I'm pretty sure Herbstreit said that we earned our spot in the game, not that we "shouldn't have been there". What he questioned (and it wasn't so much him questioning it as much as bringing up the supposed narrative) of us being able to compete with the elite SEC teams.

We got our asses handed to us in an almost unprecedented way. It looked every bit as bad as the score. I got a text from my impartial brother halfway through the second quarter that said "it looks like you don't belong!". When you have a beatdown like that, criticism will come your way. And to be perfectly honest with you, there is almost no way an Ohio State or Alabama loses in that kind of fashion, where it is just total physical domination. I'd probably throw Michigan in there as well, they'd have held up better than we did. Wouldn't have won or kept it close, but it wouldn't have looked like it did.

actually, mentioned something about big 10 teams, but that was a narrative point that was handed to him or came over the headphones. and his face showed it was not him. I am sure there was some voiced displeasure off air.

 

[Wexahu]

actually, mentioned something about big 10 teams, but that was a narrative point that was handed to him or came over the headphones. and his face showed it was not him. I am sure there was some voiced displeasure off air.

What I heard was SEC but I was in a loud place so wasn't able to hear everything all that great.

In any event, you get beat like that and people are going to have some not so great things to say. The same way we'd be talking about anyone else who got beat 65-7. We had a chance to at least show we can be competitive on a stage like that and we laid a major egg. It is what it is.

 

[PurplFrawg]

My chin was never down. I am proud of this team and how much they accomplished.

 

[frogteacher70]

I can’t think of any trade I’d make for this year’s fiesta bowl win other than the Natty. It matters in the long run. Just read the WSJ story on the brilliance of Michigan's O-Line. The newspaper just about crowned them football royalty on December 31, 2022. We all know what happened subsequently.

 

[TopFrog]

Thanks. I will try and keep them all up.