FWST: TCU's best ever? You can make case for Dalton

[TopFrog]

FWST: TCU's best ever? You can make case for Dalton

By Big Steaming Pile
tengel@ star-telegram.com

Unofficial TCU historian Dan Jenkins scoffs at the notion that Andy Dalton is better than Sam Baugh.

"What Andy has done is great," Jenkins said in an interview earlier this fall. "It's a big lie to say Andy is better than Sam Baugh because he's not. Sam is the best quarterback that ever lived. To say Andy Dalton is better than Sam Baugh is fraudulent."

We can agree no single person of his generation might have made a greater impact on football than the late Sammy Baugh.

I'm not going to bother arguing Dalton is better than Baugh. I'm not going to waste your time suggesting Dalton is better than some of the greatest names in TCU history, names such as Baugh, Lilly, Swink, O'Brien or Tomlinson. To do so would require 100 proof. ...

 

[FROGDADDY]

"What Andy has done is great," Jenkins said in an interview earlier this fall. "It's a big lie to say Andy is better than Sam Baugh because he's not. Sam is the best quarterback that ever lived. To say Andy Dalton is better than Sam Baugh is fraudulent."

Geez Dan, tell us how you really feel. If I had to make a list of the five best players in TCU football history, not because of what they did in the NFL but because of what they did at TCU, Andy Dalton is on my list EASILY.

 

[purplepreacher]

Like we've said before, surely, to compare a qb in the 21st century with one back in the middle of the 20the century is silly. Baugh played fewer games and played defense. Don't know if he did the punting or not, but it was two different eras. The two men should not be compared.

 

[Froggy Style]

Don't know if he did the punting or not

Uh, possibly the best of all time.

 

[Frog DJ]

Yeah, preacher - apples and oranges.

Baugh was a leader and innovator at time when the passing game was just beginning to blossom.

No one in college football had his arm or accuracy, so he was man among boys in that regard.

The fact he played fewer games and both ways cannot be discounted, and his contributions were unparalleled at the time.

Dalton arrived at just the right moment - when TCU's resurgence was at its peak, and his addition put the program over the top.

His management skills made him a starter, and his leadership skills made him a star, but as Jenkins said, "Sam is the best quarterback that ever lived."

Don't get me wrong - Dalton is firmly entrenched in TCU football lore, but Baugh changed the game forever, and that makes him truly legendary.

Each player will be highly revered far beyond their own lifetimes, and rightfully so.

It's an interesting, and totally impossible debate.

Go Frogs!

 

[weklfrog]

Baugh still holds NFL punting records for most seasons leading the league (tied with Jerrel Wilson at 4), most consecutive seasons leading the league(4), highest average punting season (51.4; second place is Yale Lary at 48.94; third place is Baugh at 48.73), and is second on highest average punting career.

 

[SoonerFrogs]

NFL play shouldnt come into the discussion. Both QBs are TCU legends, plain and simple.

 

[TopFrog]

Like we've said before, surely, to compare a qb in the 21st century with one back in the middle of the 20the century is silly.

This. You can't compare them. Both are great in their own rights and times. It was a very different game in Sammy's and Davey's days, hell even in Curtis's day.

Dalton is the greatest TCU QB of this century and the last half century. How's that?

 

[Leap Frog]

Don't think you can compare one era to another. These players now are bigger, faster, stronger with better training, coaching and diets. Andy will make any list of TCU legends, so make room for him.

 

[FROGDADDY]

Don't think you can compare one era to another. These players now are bigger, faster, stronger with better training, coaching and diets.

Don't compare them that way. Compare them on what they accomplished while at TCU. Hard to argue that anyone has accomplished more than AD. He blew up the QB record book and won the Rose Bowl, hard to argue against him.

 

[HFrog1999]

You really shouldn't rank great players like Baugh, O'Brien, Swink, Lilly, Tomlinson, or Dalton. It's not fair to try and put them in some sort of order. Dalton's name belongs along side these greats. He's a program building player.

 

[toadallytexan]

lots of good arguments here...to illustrate why players -- even at the same position -- from different eras can't really be compared, I'll cite the one NFL record Baugh holds today which will never, EVER be broken in today's game.











In the same game...
4 TDs ... and ...





4 interceptions!

 

[TopFrog]

Don't compare them that way. Compare them on what they accomplished while at TCU. Hard to argue that anyone has accomplished more than AD. He blew up the QB record book and won the Rose Bowl, hard to argue against him.

But then you can say Baugh and O'Brien won NCs at TCU, which Dalton. But how fair is that, considering TCU isn't given a fair shot. O'Brien won the Heisman while Dalton did not.

Players had to play both ways back then. As Leap pointed out, the size, style of play was completely different, even in the 1950s in the years of Chuck Curtis and Jim Swink.

You can't compare them, so I don't see why Jenkins has to make the remarks he did, IMO. To make such a definitive statement about two completely different eras is nonsense, in my book.

 

[Leap Frog]

Don't compare them that way. Compare them on what they accomplished while at TCU. Hard to argue that anyone has accomplished more than AD. He blew up the QB record book and won the Rose Bowl, hard to argue against him.

I wasn't comparing them- don't think you can.
Didn't say anyone had accomplished more than Andy.
You left out the part where I said AD would be a legend.
I think we agree more than we disagree-hope so.

 

[ShreveFrog]

Also, Andy's played in an age where the game is more sophisticated, requiring much study pre-game, and much decision making pre-snap. Andy has shown that his game and his brain are both sharp.
Can't say who the best is, since Andy is the only qb of the big 3 I've seen with my own eyes, and -- as discussed -- different eras.

 

[Salfrog]

Frog DJ pretty much hit it for me. Dalton happened to be here at the right time. He helped propel TCU to the next level of our rise back to national prominence. He should be considered one of the greats, but not the greatest.

 

[ChemicalArts]

I think labels like "best ever" can only be given in retrospect, long after we're all gone. We'll let the Frogs of the late 21st century settle this. History will remember AD as one of the greats, but the greatest? Too early for even Dan Jenkins to say. Although, I say he has as much right as anyone to state his opinion.

 

[Froginexile]

O'Brien has the Heisman and award named after him...that is high marks in TCU lore.
Slinging Sammy has a building named after him.

LT and AD...not sure where they will be. Not sure if we as become geezers will be able to tell the story as well as Jenkins' does.

LT, it was upon his shoulders that the TCU program ran out of oblivion to prominence. LT is the greatest TCU running back there has been. Over Swink and Davis. No questions asked.

But think about the Defensive Lineman...who is better Jerry Hughes or Bob Lilly? Which of our D-line in the last decade which have been more dominant than Lilly's teams can be spoken in the same sentence with Lilly?

Then you get to the triumverate of AD, Davey and Sammy. I think they all have their gifts and each did something extremely special for the school. I thought Tye Gunn was the best QB we had had in years. He was a great leader, too nicked up, but he willed victory when he was on the field, the teams were better. (exception SMU, an ugly stain on Tye's record) AD eclipsed him and Tye is a distant memory. I think Marcus Jackson an upper classman being the back up, Jeremy Kerley going to WR, and the team stayed whole...speaks a great deal to the fiber of who AD is. He is perhaps the greatest leader that TCU has had. Maybe not greatest QB, but if I needed someone to win a game...I think I would take AD.

If I wanted to have helluva a fun time, Sammy. If I wanted personality, Davey.